I would definitely be on board with Olynyk. He is still young too. Hopefully the Spurs will have a better chance after most the other contenders already used up their space.

Of course don't rule out the Jazz going hard after him with a huge offer.

I don't know the veracity of this but I read on Spurs Uncensored that the Knicks are going to offer JSimms 16.9MM.

I could see Utah coming hard at Simmons now. He would fit their system perfectly. I get the feeling that Simmons is going to get too big of an offer for the Spurs to match. They won't take on a huge balloon contract.

He obviously wants to get paid, otherwise he would have taken the Spurs initial offer. He's got five kids and wants the biggest contract he can get.

ToHntortoFsh said:

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I don't know the veracity of this but I read on Spurs Uncensored that the Knicks are going to offer JSimms 16.9MM.

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Per year? Good luck in New York, Juice!!

I'm not sure if the Spurs made any offers yet. The rumor that came out said they were preparing to offer $9 million a year. I would bet money that was his agent leaking Intel (true or not) in order to stir up interest. We know the Spurs don't leak chit.

Some might say playing games like that means he doesn't want to be there. Which is pretty crazy to think considering the Spurs are the organization who gave him his break.

If Simmons does get a $16 million offer then I guess we'll get to see what the brass really thinks of him. It's not a terrible price for a very good starting 2 guard. The question is do you think he's that good?

Simmons is tough to peg. On the one hand, he had a good playoffs.

On the other, he looked like he was a 2nd year player out of the D league for several stretches last year.

You would think the Spurs have a pretty good idea what his worth is. I trust that they will make a good decision on whether to bring him back at A given value

Spurs have let a lot of players go that fans didn't want to leave, that ended up doing jack elsewhere. I trust them on this type of thing. They tend to be pretty smart and not overpay for guys, which is why they stay so competitive year after year. A couple bad signings are millstones. Just ask LA how they feel about paying Blake Griffin 175mm in 5 years.

Quote:

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I'm not sure if the Spurs made any offers yet. The rumor that came out said they were preparing to offer $9 million a year.

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Okay this would make more sense. I misunderstood. I was a little confused because the Spurs made a qualifying offer.

I agree with flashplayer. Simmons had that great opening night during the season but then looked pretty terrible for the rest of the year until the playoffs. I'm sure the Spurs are weighing that as well.

Yes the Spurs made a qualifying offer. That is a just CBA mandated minimum offer in order to make him a restricted free agent (and not unrestricted). The qualifying minimum is a pretty small and its for one year. So if the Spurs really want to keep him they'll try to sign him to a longer deal now. They also have the right to match any offer he gets from other teams. The "rumor" was they were talking about a $9 million per year deal. My guess is his agent put that out there hoping some other team thought they could beat it and possibly not get matched by the Spurs.

With all that being said, looking at Simmons stats you'd be insane to pay that much (16 million). He averaged 17.8 minutes a game last season and shot 42% (29% from 3pt). He certainly passed the eye test in the playoffs but still wasn't exactly efficient or even prolific. That's a pretty big risk to take IMO. If the Knicks really want him maybe they could convince them to sign and trade. Get a draft pick or something out of it.

I'd really like to see what Simmons can do over the next few years in silver and black, but at his age and career earnings he has to take the best offer.

Really hard to tell with him. 16 could be a steal for an elite on-ball defender with plus size/athleticism, a nice midrange game, slashing ability, and competent outside shooting. It could also be massively overpaying for a guy who has performed well at times but only because opponents didn't take him seriously.

I'd feel comfortable up to around 12mm because defense is a safe bet and he can clearly function as a cog on the second team. After that you're paying to find out whether he can carry a bigger, more consistent load on offense as the sixth man or even replacing Green in the starting lineup to get more backcourt playmaking next to Murray/Mills.

Doesn't Simmons short number of years in the league require a structured deal where you have to backload it? I have a hard time believing some team is going to offer him $20+ million the last couple years where it averages out to $15 million+, but I guess stranger things have happened. My guess is he gets a comparable offer as Mills where it ends up being about 4 for $50 total so averages about 12-13 million per. That's more than you would ideally spend (hopefully closer to $10 per) but if the backup plan is an Achilles torn Rudy Gay then you pay a little extra if needed I suppose.

I guess every team has been out big game hunting, but I find it interesting how little movement any of the Spurs lesser free agents have had to include Gasol, Dedmon and Lee. I have no idea what kind of deal a few of those are going to get. Doesn't sound like there was much interest in LMA or green either.

It seems folks are very wary of Spurs players both in free agency or in trades. I don't blame them, because as Guitar mentioned who was the last Spur FA or even a traded player to leave and perform really well elsewhere? There aren't too many. Spurs role players outside the elite stars are generally overrated by both fans and GMs. It looks like many GMs are wising up to that fact unfortunately.

I still think PG is a major problem with no clear solution. Just have to hope Murray develops and Parker heals. Mills will get destroyed nightly if we ask him to start against the elite PGs in the West. I hope Manu returns as he is probably the best creator on the team right now and let's Mills play the 2.

The Knicks are certainly dumb enough to go throw a lot of money at a guy who's really only played one full season in the NBA (spent his first back and forth with Austin). I love me some Juice, but you don't over pay for a guy like him. I think he has upside and can certainly develop even more offensively, but he's not worth more than 10-12 mil a year imo.

As far as a backup plan if Simmons takes a pay day somewhere else (which I wouldn't blame him at all), I think it's Adam Hanga. We've already said we're bring him over, he was the best defender in the EuroLeague, little longer at 6'7", but he profiles very similar to Simmons. Super athletic, great defender, not a great shooter, but can slash offensively.

GatorAg03 said:

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It seems folks are very wary of Spurs players both in free agency or in trades. I don't blame them, because as Guitar mentioned who was the last Spur FA or even a traded player to leave and perform really well elsewhere? There aren't too many. Spurs role players outside the elite stars are generally overrated by both fans and GMs. It looks like many GMs are wising up to that fact unfortunately.

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Stephen Jackson?

George Hill?

West Texan said:

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GatorAg03 said:

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It seems folks are very wary of Spurs players both in free agency or in trades. I don't blame them, because as Guitar mentioned who was the last Spur FA or even a traded player to leave and perform really well elsewhere? There aren't too many. Spurs role players outside the elite stars are generally overrated by both fans and GMs. It looks like many GMs are wising up to that fact unfortunately.

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Stephen Jackson?

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Spurs who left and did well elsewhere?

Jackson is number one by far as a FA. Baynes has been serviceable. Detroit signed him to be a backup big and that's what he is. I guess the jury is still out on Boban. Beno had a very nice career after leaving the Spurs.

As for trades, there's been a few. George Hill and Boris Diaw. Splitter has played pretty well in his role for Atlanta but still has his injury issues. Jefferson is a still playing and contributed to a ring in Cleveland.

Yeah, that's definitely a whole lot of mediocrity. Jackson had a bad attitude (like LMA) which led to his departure. Hill was obviously the biggest piece for the Spurs to move but they got Kawhi back for that one, which reinforces don't do business with the Spurs.

I definitely think teams are gun shy (for good reason) when dealing with the Spurs.

Things may have worked out that way, but you were phrasing it as if questioning whether the talent of those players diminishes when they change teams. Clearly, for many of them it did not. What the Spurs ended up getting out of it doesn't have anything to do with that piece of it.

Jackson's attitude wasn't the reason for his departure. Spurs offered him a really fair 3y contract (3/10 if I remember right) and he turned it down thinking he could get better offers. In the meantime, the Spurs traded nothing for Turkeyglue and Ron Mercer so he wasn't needed/didn't have space. He had to settle for a 1y/1mm contract from Atl. But the Spurs tried hard to bring him back.

There were definitely some attitude issues in play with him that affected his status with the Spurs.

www.google.com/amp/nesn.com/2013/06/stephen-jackson-says-release-from-spurs-result-of-refusing-to-admit-manu-ginobili-danny-green-were-better/amp/

GatorAg03 said:

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There were definitely some attitude issues in play with him that affected his status with the Spurs.

www.google.com/amp/nesn.com/2013/06/stephen-jackson-says-release-from-spurs-result-of-refusing-to-admit-manu-ginobili-danny-green-were-better/amp/

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He meant the first time we had Captain Jack.

The productivity did diminish with most of them or they stop growing as players even though they are young. Spurs do a great job of both developing young players and maximizing them as role players so the value of these guys often gets inflated.

That's why I don't worry too much about the role players. Spurs will always find value there. The hard part is getting the high end talent, which is why the LMA situation is so bad. No matter what you do on the bench good luck with LMA as your #2 player. That makes it tough.

I also think CoJo has done well in Toronto...at least the few times I've watched them play.

Gotcha, I was confusing the two.

Summer league team plays the Celtics tonight at 6. I wasn't able to watch the first game the other day, but hopefully we see some better play from Murray. Also a chance to watch Tatum play for Boston.

Marc Gasol possible trade to celtics http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2719954-marc-gasol-trade-rumors-celtics-may-be-suitor-after-gordon-hayward-signing?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

I find this one very interesting. These one year left players are not going for much. If you want to get much value for Gasol, now is the time while he has two years left. Now that Zbo is gone do you really just run it back?

It is probably wishful thinking but I wonder if the Celtics or Griz would have any interest in LMA.

I would gladly take a package of young players and picks from Boston or Marc Gasol from the Griz in exchange for LMA and Green.

Maybe Pau can help influence things with Marc behind the scenes. This might be the last hope of adding a real difference maker.

GatorAg03 said:

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The productivity did diminish with most of them or they stop growing as players even though they are young. Spurs do a great job of both developing young players and maximizing them as role players so the value of these guys often gets inflated.

That's why I don't worry too much about the role players. Spurs will always find value there. The hard part is getting the high end talent, which is why the LMA situation is so bad. No matter what you do on the bench good luck with LMA as your #2 player. That makes it tough.

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If LMA is your second best player and Simmons walks such that your backcourt rotation is second year player Murray, Patty Mills (a good role player but not really a 'starter' quality guy IMO), Danny Green, 35-year old Parker coming off torn leg muscle injury, etc.....I'm not sure what to think about where I would rank the Spurs in the West pecking order when next season starts. I know Golden State has to be ranked #1...but looking at who would look best as the initial guess for #2 in the West...part of me would want to go with the Spurs because of their consistent history and Kawhi is such a fabulous player...but I also don't like much thus far how the Spurs offseason has played out while multiple other teams in the West have been adding additional All-Star players.

Luckily there is still time. We'll see a lot of moves over the next month.

Its funny that looking at this team its not all that encouraging. However, they did win 61 games last season and were probably playing well enough to challenge GSW if they would have stayed healthy. That's a testament to Pop and it really illustrates how dominant Kawhi was last season. I know we all think you need a bevvy of all stars to win now. But the next best might be to have the absolute best player combined with a great system.

I'm just about 100% sure I'll be taking the over on the vegas win totals.

Ag Natural said:

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Luckily there is still time. We'll see a lot of moves over the next month.

Its funny that looking at this team its not all that encouraging. However, they did win 61 games last season and were probably playing well enough to challenge GSW if they would have stayed healthy. That's a testament to Pop and it really illustrates how dominant Kawhi was last season. I know we all think you need a bevvy of all stars to win now. But the next best might be to have the absolute best player combined with a great system.

I'm just about 100% sure I'll be taking the over on the vegas win totals.

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This Ringer article today that is trying to rank all of the teams in the West still has the Spurs at #2.

https://theringer.com/nba-western-conference-ranking-ten-best-teams-37691c79cf87

I'm so glad we have Warriors super fan to come in here and remind us the Warriors are still the best team in the West. Hot taek

Speaking of Warriors, Nick Young to GS... That guy's an idiot. Fits in well with Green, Zaza, West, etc.

Also, was there such a thing as a Warriors fan before 2015?

Guitarsoup said:

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I'm so glad we have Warriors super fan to come in here and remind us the Warriors are still the best team in the West. Hot taek

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Actually, I think following the Warriors may be one of the lesser things that interest me next season. They are obviously an exceptionally great team that pulled me in as a casual NBA fan (yeah, I'm not super emotionally tied to any particular NBA team...only Texas A&M basketball which has usually mean pain and suffering ha ha).

But I think several of the other story lines such as watching the Westbrook and Paul George (for only 1 year?) experiment, the Harden and Chris Paul experiment, etc. are going to be really fascinating. Those star pairings could work out wonderfully or just completely flame out. Who the heck knows.

I'm also going to be interested in whether the Spurs can continue to maintain the consistent high level that they have had for so many years, now that the core of Duncan/Parker/Ginobli is about totally gone and it seems like the load on Kawhi's shoulders is going to be getting higher and higher. Those are really awesome shoulders but is he going to be getting enough help?

All these off-season movements I think are going to make for a pretty fun NBA watch starting this fall.

AustinAg2012 said:

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Also, was there such a thing as a Warriors fan before 2015?

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Well, I certainly wasn't watching them ha ha. But my understanding is that yeah, they had a hardcore set of fans who suffered for decades up there. Whom I guessing right now are both super thrilled but also really sad that their season ticket prices went up by 270% last year and probably will continue to just get jacked up higher and higher. Because the Warriors now have a billion dollar payroll to cover plus all those extra folks jumping on the bandwagon.

Anyway the spurs could make a move for Avery Bradley or jar crowder? Celts are supposedly shopping both along with Marcus smart in order to make room for Hayward.

Shouldn't most moves be wrapped up by the weekend?

It feels as though there is a lot left to shake out.