*****Spurs 2017 Offseason Thread*****

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GatorAg03
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11:00a, 6/22/17
AG
Spurs are in an interesting position in which almost anything they do to improve this off-season will not make them favorites against the warriors, yet almost anything they do that makes them worse in the short term won't make them fall much further than a top 4 team in the west.

We know what our ceiling was with LMA as the number #2 option and keeping him and getting another #2 option wasn't realistic. So trade him, try to bring in a new Free agent option at #2 and at the minimum few young players to develop and do a rebuild on the move while still being a top 2-4 team in the West and like everyone else just hoping for a GSW mis-step or Zaza karma.

I'm just glad that they are admitting what we all saw from LMA for two years. What a failed experiment that guy was. Arguably worse than Dick Jefferson.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 11:09a, 6/22/17
GatorAg03 said:
Spurs are in an interesting position in which almost anything they do to improve this off-season will not make them favorites against the warriors, yet almost anything they do that makes them worse in the short term won't make them fall much further than a top 4 team in the west.

We know what our ceiling was with LMA as the number #2 option and keeping him and getting another #2 option wasn't realistic. So trade him, try to bring in a new Free agent option at #2 and at the minimum few young players to develop and do a rebuild on the move while still being a top 2-4 team in the West and like everyone else just hoping for a GSW mis-step or Zaza karma.

I'm just glad that they are admitting what we all saw from LMA for two years. What a failed experiment that guy was. Arguably worse than Dick Jefferson.


You had me until the last bit of emotional nonsense. The Spurs won 67 and 61 games with LMA as a number 2 option. There was a lot left to be desired, but you sound like a scorned woman with this "worse than Dick Jefferson" talk. That debate isn't even close.

The Spurs got knocked out his first year by a Thunder team that had peak Durant and Westbrook, and Dion Hail Mary Waiters getting hot for the first time all season. LMA put up like 40 twice that series, and Kawhi disappeared for a game and a half that series. LMA wasn't the problem.

They got knocked out the second year by possibly the greatest offense/team in history, and we were without Kawhi.

LMA is not a top dog. He's a 2nd/3rd option guy, and he's playing on a team with a huge drop off after Kawhi and himself.

The hyperbole in this thread is getting out of control.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 11:14a, 6/22/17
AG

Quote:
LMA is not a top dog. He's a 2nd/3rd option guy,
He thinks he is a top dog. But he doesn't play like it.
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GatorAg03
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11:16a, 6/22/17
AG
I disagree obi wan. You only highlight the good and not the bad, like when he couldn't post up Harden or score without Kawhi or parker. For the amount he was paid and what he become it was an awful signing. The Spurs without Aldridge would have reached about the same ceiling, maybe greater if they had chosen another top 20 free agent as the number 2 option. He was supposed to be the Duncan replacement and wasn't even a Tiago splitter/boris diaw replacement.

His attitude and work ethic the Spurs are cutting bait after two years with a top 20 talent/top 5 big in his prime.

It was definitely one of the worst signings in Spurs history, even though it made perfect sense at the time. The Spurs won't miss a beat without that guy.
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Malcolm52
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 11:17a, 6/22/17
AG
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
GatorAg03 said:
Spurs are in an interesting position in which almost anything they do to improve this off-season will not make them favorites against the warriors, yet almost anything they do that makes them worse in the short term won't make them fall much further than a top 4 team in the west.

We know what our ceiling was with LMA as the number #2 option and keeping him and getting another #2 option wasn't realistic. So trade him, try to bring in a new Free agent option at #2 and at the minimum few young players to develop and do a rebuild on the move while still being a top 2-4 team in the West and like everyone else just hoping for a GSW mis-step or Zaza karma.

I'm just glad that they are admitting what we all saw from LMA for two years. What a failed experiment that guy was. Arguably worse than Dick Jefferson.


You had me until the last bit of emotional nonsense. The Spurs won 67 and 61 games with LMA as a number 2 option. There was a lot left to be desired, but you sound like a scorned woman with this "worse than Dick Jefferson" talk. That debate isn't even close.

The Spurs got knocked out his first year by a Thunder team that had peak Durant and Westbrook, and Dion Hail Mary Waiters getting hot for the first time all season. LMA put up like 40 twice that series, and Kawhi disappeared for a game and a half that series. LMA wasn't the problem.

They got knocked out the second year by possibly the greatest offense/team in history, and we were without Kawhi.

LMA is not a top dog. He's a 2nd/3rd option guy, and he's playing on a team with a huge drop off after Kawhi and himself.

The hyperbole in this thread is getting out of control.
To be fair, what GatorAg said in his first two paragraphs is 100% spot on.

LMA wasn't trash for us, he just wasn't quite worth what we paid for him. Granted that is in today's NBA climate of Super-teams. What compounded the problem, was our team's strengths and LMA's strengths didn't mesh. I just don't think the fit was/is there.

If we could keep him and lure CP3, which doesn't appear to be possible, then I would want him to stay. If not, I would rather have youth and cap flexibility right now. We can still be the 2-4 seed in the west without him, and maybe we strike gold elsewhere or put ourselves in position to capitalize on other opportunities down the line.
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GatorAg03
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11:27a, 6/22/17
AG
If the top 10 pick doesn't work out and since so many players are being shopped, then just trade him straight up for DeAndre Jordan who also is on the block. Salaries are basically the same.

Then sign CP3 and they won't even have to re-shoot the state farm commercials.

Hell, bring Reddick over too for the MLE and win with the guys the Clips never could.
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LawHall88
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 11:31a, 6/22/17
AG
GatorAg03 said:
I disagree obi wan. You only highlight the good and not the bad, like when he couldn't post up Harden or score without Kawhi or parker. For the amount he was paid and what he become it was an awful signing. The Spurs without Aldridge would have reached about the same ceiling, maybe greater if they had chosen another top 20 free agent as the number 2 option. He was supposed to be the Duncan replacement and wasn't even a Tiago splitter/boris diaw replacement.

His attitude and work ethic the Spurs are cutting bait after two years with a top 20 talent/top 5 big in his prime.

It was definitely one of the worst signings in Spurs history, even though it made perfect sense at the time. The Spurs won't miss a beat without that guy.
Aldridge went for 34 and 12 against the Rockets in Game 6 without Kawhi, so the ability was there. But he was then terrible in the Warriors series, and as they say, it ain't how you start, it's how you finish.

If the Spurs are looking to deal him now, I suspect it does mean that they expect him to opt out after next season and are trying to get value for him before that happens.
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FTAG 2000
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11:42a, 6/22/17
AG
We're talking about an aging guy with heart problems, who has shown up to both training camps out of shape, made the Spurs unretire Bowen's jersey number for him, and built an addition to his home for his freakin' shoe collection. And that got handled in the post by 6'5" James Harden.

Good riddance.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 11:44a, 6/22/17
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
Spurs also have strong interest in D-Rose. Might be a more realistic option if they can't clear the cap space for Paul.
I don't believe that for a second. That's what his agent wants people to believe, but Spurs aren't going to invest a lot in an injury prone PG to fill for their injured PG.

I could see him being their 6th-7th option for a minimum contract and coverage at PG if it gets to that (don't think it will). But likely some other idiot GM pays more than they should for a broken down guy in Rose who is guaranteed to get hurt at some point.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 11:50a, 6/22/17
GatorAg03 said:
I disagree obi wan. You only highlight the good and not the bad, like when he couldn't post up Harden or score without Kawhi or parker. For the amount he was paid and what he become it was an awful signing. The Spurs without Aldridge would have reached about the same ceiling, maybe greater if they had chosen another top 20 free agent as the number 2 option. He was supposed to be the Duncan replacement and wasn't even a Tiago splitter/boris diaw replacement.

His attitude and work ethic the Spurs are cutting bait after two years with a top 20 talent/top 5 big in his prime.

It was definitely one of the worst signings in Spurs history, even though it made perfect sense at the time. The Spurs won't miss a beat without that guy.

Goodness, no wonder you think he was trash. You expected him to "be the Duncan replacement". Duncan is a top 10 player in the history of the game. That's asking a lot.

He was never expected to replace Duncan. Duncan's last 3-5 years were focused on defense and smart passing. Aldridge has literally NEVER been asked to do either of those things, so you're kidding yourself if you think the front office brought him in to just magically know how to be Tim Duncan level at either skill.

No, instead, they went out and got a floor spacing big man, in the tail end of his prime, integrated him into a foreign offense, while letting Kawhi Leonard learn how to be a two-way alpha dog. And they still managed to average 64 wins per season.

The Spurs won 61 or more games three times since drafting Tim and before Aldridge arrived. They've now done it back to back in his first two seasons.

But ya, he's "definitely one of the worst signings in Spurs history". We will just ignore the fact that he plays in the same conference as one of the best assembled teams in the history of the league, a 7 foot scoring machine in his prime, and a point guard who just averaged a triple double for an entire season.
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Guitarsoup
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11:51a, 6/22/17
AG
Rose played 2000 minutes the last two years. I could see him as a 3rd choice behind Chris Paul and George Hill. 20/5/4 per 36 last year.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 11:57a, 6/22/17
GatorAg03 said:
If the top 10 pick doesn't work out and since so many players are being shopped, then just trade him straight up for DeAndre Jordan who also is on the block. Salaries are basically the same.

Then sign CP3 and they won't even have to re-shoot the state farm commercials.

Hell, bring Reddick over too for the MLE and win with the guys the Clips never could.
Now THAT would be fun to watch.

Can you imagine all the teams using Pop's hack-a-jordan strategy against him? He'll be a little grey bearded ball of hate on the sideline.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 11:57a, 6/22/17
AG
Being a replacement for him certainly doesn't mean he is supposed to be as good and I certainly never said that. LMA wasn't even in the same atmosphere though. He wasn't even an all-star this past year.
Those 60+ wins seasons are much more about Pop, Kawhi and a watered down NBA than anything LMA brought to the table.

We've been having this same argument for over a year now. LMA was a terrible signing and the Spurs agree and are moving him in his prime after two short years. He has been a failure regardless of the 60 win seasons and the Spurs trying to move him shows as much.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 11:59a, 6/22/17
AG
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
GatorAg03 said:
If the top 10 pick doesn't work out and since so many players are being shopped, then just trade him straight up for DeAndre Jordan who also is on the block. Salaries are basically the same.

Then sign CP3 and they won't even have to re-shoot the state farm commercials.

Hell, bring Reddick over too for the MLE and win with the guys the Clips never could.
Now THAT would be fun to watch.

Can you imagine all the teams using Pop's hack-a-jordan strategy against him? He'll be a little grey bearded ball of hate on the sideline.
Don Nelson used it against Bowen.
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LawHall88
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12:00p, 6/22/17
AG
Assuming this is true, is it because they want to keep Jackson or flip him for Aldridge's replacement?

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Guitarsoup
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12:03p, 6/22/17
AG
Jackson probably slots in at 2 for us. So that means Danny Green is probably on the move as well.

Youth movement. Kawhi/Jackson/Murray/Simmons
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 12:08p, 6/22/17
GatorAg03 said:
Being a replacement for him certainly doesn't mean he is supposed to be as good and I certainly never said that. LMA wasn't even in the same atmosphere though. He wasn't even an all-star this past year.
Those 60+ wins seasons are much more about Pop, Kawhi and a watered down NBA than anything LMA brought to the table.

We've been having this same argument for over a year now. LMA was a terrible signing and the Spurs agree and are moving him in his prime after two short years. He has been a failure regardless of the 60 win seasons and the Spurs trying to move him shows as much.
Well, OK. If you say it's a bad signing then everyone should just STFU and not possibly have a different opinion.

You literally just had to type out "he has been a failure regardless of the 60 win seasons". You typed that. Your words.

He's not worth $21 million. No one is arguing that. He's not capable of winning a title being a 2nd option with no other help. No one is arguing that. But this total bust, total failure thing is way out of control.

The Spurs openly trying to move LMA is either because A) They are actually going to land Chris Paul and they know it, or B) He has told them he is planning to opt out and they want to get something, anything, for him instead of losing him and getting nothing in return.

The fact that the Spurs, the best run sports organization in the last 20 years, thinks he could legitimately command a top 10 pick should tell you that he is not as worthless as you think.
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jr15aggie
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In reply to LawHall88 • 12:09p, 6/22/17
AG
LawHall88 said:
Assuming this is true, is it because they want to keep Jackson or flip him for Aldridge's replacement?





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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to LawHall88 • 12:11p, 6/22/17
LawHall88 said:
Assuming this is true, is it because they want to keep Jackson or flip him for Aldridge's replacement?



Does anyone really think the Celtics would pass on Josh Jackson at 3? Seems like a big gamble to me.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 12:14p, 6/22/17
AG
We can agree to disagree then on our expectations for him as a Spur and our definition of a failure/bust, etc. I do think he is a top 20 player and top 5 big man, which I stated above. Which makes his performance here even more damnable. If I though he had no talent then I wouldn't have had high expectations.

Either way, I'm just very happy the LMA Spurs experiment appears to be on the brink of ending.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to GatorAg03 • 12:21p, 6/22/17
GatorAg03 said:
We can agree to disagree then on our expectations for him as a Spur and our definition of a failure/bust, etc. I do think he is a top 20 player and top 5 big man, which I stated above. Which makes his performance here even more damnable. If I though he had no talent then I wouldn't have had high expectations.

Either way, I'm just very happy the LMA Spurs experiment appears to be on the brink of ending.
Like I mentioned above, I thought he wasn't a great fit, so I had lower expectations. The team won a **** ton of games and ran into some bad luck. I'm not calling it a failure.

Now, having said that, assuming the Spurs could somehow pry CP3 away AND keep Aldridge (cap wise, it's probably impossible, but this is an internet forum and I can play pretend), if Aldridge didn't produce with the Point God on his team, he should probably just retire.
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GatorAg03
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 12:27p, 6/22/17
AG
I agree with that being the best case scenario, but it looks like that ship may have sailed. If we had to get rid of Aldridge to try to find Kawhi a true #2 option then it's a no brainier.

It will be interesting to see what the Spurs due as a rim protector if both Aldridge and Dedmon are gone.

It's been 3 decades since we didn't have an all-star level big to defend the rim.
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Pendragon12
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12:33p, 6/22/17
AG
This is getting exciting.

But I have a feeling we'll basically have the same team as next year.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Obi Wan Ginobili • 12:33p, 6/22/17
AG
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
LawHall88 said:
Assuming this is true, is it because they want to keep Jackson or flip him for Aldridge's replacement?



Does anyone really think the Celtics would pass on Josh Jackson at 3? Seems like a big gamble to me.
Does anyone really think anyone at ESPN knows who the Spurs really want?
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 12:37p, 6/22/17
AG 2000' said:
Obi Wan Ginobili said:
LawHall88 said:
Assuming this is true, is it because they want to keep Jackson or flip him for Aldridge's replacement?



Does anyone really think the Celtics would pass on Josh Jackson at 3? Seems like a big gamble to me.
Does anyone really think anyone at ESPN knows who the Spurs really want?


Not a single one of em
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GatorAg03
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12:38p, 6/22/17
AG
It should be an exciting night. Just off the top of my head the Clips, Pacers, Spurs, Rockets, Cavs, Celtics, Bulls are all rumored to be willing to move some major assets tonight.
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Ag Natural
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12:54p, 6/22/17
AG
Its funny that Spurs fans think LMA is garbage but then we might be able to get a high pick for him. The reality is LMA is still very good. He's a way above average big man in a league that seems to keep getting smaller. Pop hinted last season that he was hurt so they've already made excuses for him.

Here's what we know.
- The Spurs will make a move to make the locker room stronger even if it's not a talent upgrade.
- No real information is ever going to be leaked from the Spurs camp. So any rumors we see are coming from agents or possible trade partners. i.e. you can't count on them
- Remembering the George Hill trade, it was setup ahead of the draft but contingent on getting Kawhi at that pick. Essentially, the Spurs will determine if there is a player worth parting with LMA. We won't know if they value a specific guy until it happens or until we get a candid interview with Buford 2 years from now.

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GatorAg03
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1:04p, 6/22/17
AG
Being a bust or a failure for the Spurs isn't the same as saying he has no talent. He can still be a talented, top 20 player and a bad signing by the Spurs.

Plus a top 8-10 pick with the risk involved in drafting is not exactly great value for a proven top 20 player, top 5 big in his prime. In most years this would be a no brainier trade and folks would be lining up to get LMA. There is obviously baggage with LMA (washing out with the Spurs, health, out of shape and attitude) that makes it a bit more difficult to move him.

As good as LMA is, let's not act like folks are banging down the door to get this guy. He is talented, but has some major warts. Especially in a league going ever smaller.
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Guitarsoup
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1:20p, 6/22/17
AG
There are not many great power forward in the league right now.

Green was the only one to make All-NBA this year and he is really more of a really strong SF that can play bigger than his position (6'7 230)

Past five years, here are the All-NBA PFs:
Duncan
David Lee
Kevin Love
Dirk
Green
La Marcus
Anthony Davis has made it as both a center and a PF.

Lmao is a top of by default because the league is starved of power forwards. It's a PG/SF game right now.

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Ag Natural
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1:23p, 6/22/17
AG
Well the Spurs did get the 15th pick plus Bertans for Hill.

The reality is these draft prospects are a crap shoot for most organizations. Future draft picks are over valued by many but when the rubber hits a road LMA is worth about 10x a number 10 pick for this season coming up. So teams like Phoenix or the Kings who really want to start winning could jump at that. Especially since those teams have had some real underwhelming draft picks lately.
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GatorAg03
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1:29p, 6/22/17
AG
I can see a team like Minnesota with a good young core taking him. They also still play big, which alot of teams don't. Of course the thought of LMA being the veteran leader is funny, but don't tell Minnesota that.

Big men are constantly being de-valued, even though they are more and more rare. LMA, D Jordan, D Howard (already moved) and K Love are all rumored to be on the trading block as an example.

Just an odd scenario all the way around. 31 isn't all that old. He easily could have 3-4 more inefficient all-star years if he gets the volume touches he craves.
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Guitarsoup
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1:33p, 6/22/17
AG
And Kahwi was their second choice. Their first choice was Klay. If Kahwi wasn't there, the plan was to take Jimmy Butler at 29, but since they took Klaw, they took cojo instead
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aggie_fan13
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1:50p, 6/22/17
AG
Danny been traded yet ?
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Cave Johnson, CEO
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2:44p, 6/22/17
AG
Now there are reports popping up that PG and Spurs have "strong" mutual interest. It's hard to keep track of all this.
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aggie_fan13
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2:44p, 6/22/17
AG
More exciting than these last playoffs
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