I didn't really like the first year of this show near as much as most people that posted about it. But I thought it was good enough to stick with it.

I thought most of this year so far ( and very specifically this episode) were great. Fantastic acting all around. And it actually answered some questions. Being weird all of the time without seeing any progress gets old after a wild.

Even on the iPad, that was ****ing awesome.

The game makes William be the good guy.

Oh and the other host/human brain that ford sent Bernard to steal was totally Williams.

amercer said:

---

Oh and the other host/human brain that ford sent Bernard to steal was totally Williams.

---

I'm putting my hat in the ring for it being Juliet's brain.

mazzag said:

---

So is bengal hunter lady MIB's daughter?

---

And is she really a host? Part of the game? This episode was cruel.

Last night reinforced to me that the only part that is still interesting is the man in black continuing to do western stuff.

The Maeve storyline is dragging on, and Delores' storyline has gone off the rails.

3rdGen2015 said:

---

amercer said:

---

Oh and the other host/human brain that ford sent Bernard to steal was totally Williams.

---

I'm putting my hat in the ring for it being Julia's brain.

---

At first I figured it was Arnold's, but I figure the mind transfer technology was probably invented for old man Delos, so that wouldn't work.

So the cradle is the MiB biggest mistake? Seemed like they were making lots more parts than they needed. I wonder if that means they've had more success with other people.

Also, maybe William was so interested in the maze because he thought what Arnold hid in it would help solve the issue with merging a host and a human mind.

So we have a "one of the humans isn't really human" situation.

Wife and I were trying to go through human characters to see who makes the most sense, and the best we could come up with is Ford himself even though I don't like the idea that Ford is still alive.

Ford, if he wanted to fake his own death, wouldn't need the clone/host to last very long, which we already know is one of their problems. He just needed it to last long enough to make a speech and get capped by Dolores.

The "you only live as long as the last person to remember you" line that Akecheta tells Stubbs could back this up also.

I don't particularly care for the idea that it's William, though admittedly it's possible.

bobinator said:

---

So we have a "one of the humans isn't really human" situation.

Wife and I were trying to go through human characters to see who makes the most sense, and the best we could come up with is Ford himself even though I don't like the idea that Ford is still alive.

Ford, if he wanted to fake his own death, wouldn't need the clone/host to last very long, which we already know is one of their problems. He just needed it to last long enough to make a speech and get capped by Dolores.

The "you only live as long as the last person to remember you" line that Akecheta tells Stubbs could back this up also.

I don't particularly care for the idea that it's William, though admittedly it's possible.

---

Do maggots eat dead host flesh? Can't remember how real the flesh of the hosts is.

Ford could be alive as a human or alive in a host/system* due to perfecting was Delos attempted re: immortality.
Place odds on these other human-to-host possibilities:
William
Arnold
Arnold's son
William's wife

*Ford seems to be alive in the system, I can suspend disbelief and accept he could program in such a way that he can control all the chess pieces in the William game after Ford is dead, and appear in a young boy, or young girl, or El Lazo and speak directly to William. But I also think it's possible he's not transferred himself to a host body, like Delos did, but rather the system as a whole.

So many things still to consider besides who this other person to host could be - how many Bernard timelines did we see in this episode and where do they fall chronologically? How secret was the Delos/William immortality experiment and was that the "weapon"? or is the weapon cloning and replacing guests (ie the old Futureworld film sequel to the original Westworld)? Or is Ford-in-the-system the weapon and needs to be hooked up to some external internet connection? Is william showing Delores a valley being excavated, and stated it was full of splendor, just a distraction?

What is the motivation of William's daughter? Is she fascinated with getting to know her father and thinks the only way is in the game? Is she chasing her father due to her mother's death, is she angry? Is she interested in taking away her father's position as William was in wresting it away from delos?

The ghost nation scene? Stubbs and where he fits in the timelines we've seen in season 2?

It's well acted, well written, and definitely has enough mystery to keep anyone engaged - unless you miss the boobs of season 1.

I think it's important to remember that the only person that's called it a weapon is (I think...) Dolores.

The people who created it may not think of it as a weapon.

That kind of goes into my theory of William creating this host/clone technology and then regretting it and wanting to destroy it before Dolores can get to it and use it.

Why has Ford said "this game is meant for you, William"? Why did Ford do this? Did he disapprove of the philosophical ramifications of the project and set it up to fail and hurt William in the process? Show William WHY it was wrong to be working on it by putting him through some type of Charles Dickens like "this is your life"? Did Ford want to use the hosts to stop the immortality project or did he come to think if the humans deserve that the hosts do as well?

What does the Valley Beyond really refer to?

Do I want to watch a Maeve Samurai World episode?

Complete Idiot said:

---

Do I want to watch a Maeve Samurai World episode?

---

Your in luck, next weeks Episode Title: "Japanize text" translate to: Welcome to Shogun World

Complete Idiot said:

---

Do I want to watch a Maeve Samurai World episode?

---

This is something the wife and I talked a lot about, this next episode really needs to get us re-invested in Maeve because right now we don't really have any reason to care about that storyline. It doesn't seem to have any sort of ramifications for the larger story like the other plotlines do.

But I have enough faith in the writers of this show that they're playing that out for a reason.

Shogun World will be the "Hurley VW Van" episode. You think it is just a filler episode, but what happens plays a small pivotal role near the end of the season.

duck79 said:

---

And where have all the bewbs gone?

---

#metoo

duck79 said:

---

And where have all the bewbs gone?

---

Nudity doesn't seem to fit the story line this year as it did last year. However, it's obvious that the #metoo movement has led to a change in the we have to show boobs on screen because it's an hbo show and people expect it attitude.

Lisa Joy is doing an AMA on Reddit right now. She also directed last nights episode.

Yep, that's very true and is why we have only seen man junk this time around. They wanted to flip the dehumanizing aspect for a moment and then move on.

So while I believe there are probably other host/human hybrids, it wasn't confirmed last night (or did I miss something?)

Bernard takes another host controller unit, which is presumably coded with some humans consciousness, but that doesn't mean that they actually got it to work better than with Delos.

amercer said:

---

So while I believe there are probably other host/human hybrids, it wasn't confirmed last night (or did I miss something?)

Bernard takes another host controller unit, which is presumably coded with some humans consciousness, but that doesn't mean that they actually got it to work better than with Delos.

---

True....but we also don't know how long ago that scene was with William (older) and Delos ...

It was iteration 149 but they left him there....so the scene later discovering him there (which also showed iteration 149) could be any amount of time later. Years possibly. they wanted to watch his destruction.

So they could have come a long way in that time.

We don't know.

Next week's episode looks flat out amazing and I think interest in her story will be definitely be renewed by the end of that episode.

We know it can't be years because (If I'm recalling correctly...) William at one point says that his wife committed suicide last year. So that dates that scene a little bit at least.

I do think it's pretty heavily implied that that scene happens right before the events of season one. Older William regrets the project and has come to the park to fix his mistakes. He also, deep down, knows that the consciousness he once saw is real, and he's going to do everything he can to see it again, even if it kills him. In fact he might hope it kills him.

We also know the flashback that Bernard is having to the scene where he was the person that busted up that lab is at least a little while ago because it happened before he snagged Elsie. Otherwise Elsie would remember that the wall opens into a lab.