Mib said he had been married for 30 years same time as he has been going to the park. I am recalling correctly that William is about to get married to logans sister?
*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by Sazerac
This ****ing show
Just started watching the show this week and caught up on Thursday or Friday. Before tonight I didn't think the stories were taking place in the past and present. In fact, I never considered it until a friend asked me about it before I finished catching up. It's seems pretty obvious, now, that William is the Man in Black...and either he killed Logan before marrying the sister, or that his wife knew the whole reason he went back is for Dolores.
The only real question I have is how long before Ep 1 did MiB knife Maeve? How long was it said she'd been the madam? I could have sworn Clementine 1.0 talked to Maeve about William after he saved her from the bandit in town?
Edit: Also, when did MiB first meet Teddy? In episode 1 (and I guess all the rest) he talked to Teddy about him always being the loyal dog, or something.
And I have no clue wtf is going on with Wyatt and his band of devil people.
RIP Elsie. I think Stubbs is going to be on to Bernard, now.
The only real question I have is how long before Ep 1 did MiB knife Maeve? How long was it said she'd been the madam? I could have sworn Clementine 1.0 talked to Maeve about William after he saved her from the bandit in town?
Edit: Also, when did MiB first meet Teddy? In episode 1 (and I guess all the rest) he talked to Teddy about him always being the loyal dog, or something.
And I have no clue wtf is going on with Wyatt and his band of devil people.
RIP Elsie. I think Stubbs is going to be on to Bernard, now.
I know this is pedantic, but using the word "timelines" is driving me crazy. I need a Doc Brown alternate 1985 chart every time I read it now.
mathguy86 said:
Maybe I missed something but when Bernard asked Ford if he had ever killed before and Alford said no, he flashed back to killing Elsie. But if I recall, Bernard was talking to Theresa when Elsie was calling him on his phone from the old theater. That seems off. We know he told her he couldn't talk but the implication was her death was contemporaneous with that conversation.
MiB killed Maeve about 18 months before he comes back to the park to start the quest for the maze.
Any time I hear someone describe their past I now say "backstory! It's a host!". So MiB telling his dramatic story about a wife that grew to hate him and killed herself and a daughter that blamed him for that and won't talk to him makes me dream up crazy theories like William is killed in early timeline and replaced with a host that runs Delos and leaves Ford alone. But he's awakening now and drawn to the meaning of (his) life as found in the maze.
End crazy theory
End crazy theory
It very clearly showed Maive's memory being erased, but she still began to remember her past.
It ver clearly showed Ford erasing Bernard's memory. I think that Bernard will begin to remember all he's done soon.
Also, did it appear to yal that the security head (Ashley?) was weirded out on with his conversation with Bernard after his memory had been wiped.
It ver clearly showed Ford erasing Bernard's memory. I think that Bernard will begin to remember all he's done soon.
Also, did it appear to yal that the security head (Ashley?) was weirded out on with his conversation with Bernard after his memory had been wiped.
Yeah, pretty obvious the security guy is on to Bernard
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He absolutely is on to it. I literally said "oh ****" as soon as Bernard gave his "i hardly knew her" line. Stubbs just moved past it but it was obvious he knew something was off....he has always been the most skeptical and realist of the characters. his line about the hosts not going on a killing spree and only being protected by "a single line of code".
Except haven't most thought he (the security guy) has been a host the whole time?
free_mhayden said:
Except haven't most thought he (the security guy) has been a host the whole time?
Some have, but I don't.
I really hope the host being built below the house is the new Elsie, I liked her character.
Stubbs being a host is up for debate it seems. He has a sort of controlled emotions vibe similar to Bernard. I say host.
Stubbs being a host is up for debate it seems. He has a sort of controlled emotions vibe similar to Bernard. I say host.
He's got some good programmingfree_mhayden said:
Except haven't most thought he (the security guy) has been a host the whole time?
Yep; and their discussion of Wyatt not yet being in Westworld (because he's part of Ford's new story); and there was a picture in the background of the man in the bullhorn mask. This took place right AFTER Ted and MiB were attacked by the man in the bullhead mask - which is why I noticed it. I was like - "HEY, that's they guy that just attacked Ted and MiB! Is this scene in the past?"YellowPot_97 said:
Board Member woman said that Ford was out digging up some old town for his new narative
another piece of evidence of multiple time lines
I don't agree with the theory - I do think its "possible"; I had the same reaction - I was like; "Oh ****, is MiB a Host?!?!"Complete Idiot said:
Any time I hear someone describe their past I now say "backstory! It's a host!". So MiB telling his dramatic story about a wife that grew to hate him and killed herself and a daughter that blamed him for that and won't talk to him makes me dream up crazy theories like William is killed in early timeline and replaced with a host that runs Delos and leaves Ford alone. But he's awakening now and drawn to the meaning of (his) life as found in the maze.
End crazy theory
Agree... he probably saw some video of them together - or has location logs of Bernard going to her suite for sexy time...spanky said:
Yeah, pretty obvious the security guy is on to Bernard
They aren't mutually exclusive... the hosts don't know they're hosts...irish pete ag06 said:free_mhayden said:
Except haven't most thought he (the security guy) has been a host the whole time?
Some have, but I don't.
I also think either the bearded repair-tech or the asian dude are hosts.
What kind of code gives Maeve the power of suggestion? Or did they somehow insert programming into all the other hosts to obey Maeve?
Who gave Bernard the idea to kill Elsie (or how did he decide to do it)? Residual Arnold code manifesting?
Who gave Bernard the idea to kill Elsie (or how did he decide to do it)? Residual Arnold code manifesting?
So the things Ford said about Theresa trying to transmit data were correct, right? If so, could it have been Theresa who sent Bernard to kill Elsie? Maybe she discovered/knew he was a host.
Also, I keep seeing a theory that says that William turns into MiB because he kills Logan at some point. Some people seem to think that William/MiB's wife kills herself because of this. But MiB said that he wanted to kill Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt anything. If William killed Logan, why would "he" (aka MiB) need to kill again to see if he felt anything?
Also, I keep seeing a theory that says that William turns into MiB because he kills Logan at some point. Some people seem to think that William/MiB's wife kills herself because of this. But MiB said that he wanted to kill Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt anything. If William killed Logan, why would "he" (aka MiB) need to kill again to see if he felt anything?
Seems unlikely she knew. She looked genuinely surprised when it was revealed.
When he killed the soldier that was choking Logan, I think we could see him reacting emotionally inside. If he does kill Logan, it could still be pretty early in his personal development..and Logan is someone he really knows. After 30 years of going to the park, he could have grown desensitized to killing. Maeve, he said, was something to see if he could do something truly evil. Which implies any of the killing before hand could be justified. Killing someone (a host) in cold blood isn't really justifiable.Quote:
Also, I keep seeing a theory that says that William turns into MiB because he kills Logan at some point. Some people seem to think that William/MiB's wife kills herself because of this. But MiB said that he wanted to kill Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt anything. If William killed Logan, why would "he" (aka MiB) need to kill again to see if he felt anything?
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i would agree with this part. Seems unlikely he kills Logan and then has to kill Maeve to "test himself". His obsession/love for Delores might be the catalyst for his wife killing herself IRL.RossK10 said:
Also, I keep seeing a theory that says that William turns into MiB because he kills Logan at some point. Some people seem to think that William/MiB's wife kills herself because of this. But MiB said that he wanted to kill Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt anything. If William killed Logan, why would "he" (aka MiB) need to kill again to see if he felt anything?
Show is starting to lose me. It's overly complicated and now we have hosts programming hosts.
But what I don't care for is how often the hosts are damaged, repaired and returned. This would cost a billion ol us to operate a park like this and very few paying customers due to the amout of havoc they create. The entire premise is shaky.
But what I don't care for is how often the hosts are damaged, repaired and returned. This would cost a billion ol us to operate a park like this and very few paying customers due to the amout of havoc they create. The entire premise is shaky.
Well, the park is bringing it at least $56,000,000 a day from the guests so the financials work out
I think the key distinction is whether the act of killing was justifiable versus in cold blood (aka an act that was truly evil - what MIB alluded to in that scene). We have seen William kill out of a defensive instinct. Afterwards, you could tell it definitely impacted him. I think what we will see next is the normalization of this sort of killing that sets him on an arc to be less impacted by taking a life.
The logical end of this, given what we know and assuming William and MIB are one and the same, is the normalization of killing to the point that one begins to question whether they can feel at all, thus leading him to his purely evil, cold blooded killing of Maeve and her child.
The logical end of this, given what we know and assuming William and MIB are one and the same, is the normalization of killing to the point that one begins to question whether they can feel at all, thus leading him to his purely evil, cold blooded killing of Maeve and her child.
Weird, I think it's gotten better and better.
And less confusing as well.
I'm with you.This is one of the best shows I've ever watched. It's a complete and total mindf*** but not in a displeasurable way at all.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Weird, I think it's gotten better and better.
Im still confused on how Sepinwall didnt like this show. Its absolutely fantastic. The acting is off the walls. The story is so original and different from any TV show Ive ever seen. I feel like Westworld is the Bama of TV.
The writers are going out of their way to make this confusing but I am engaged with the characters. Ford is pure evil and it pulls me in. The man in black is more complicated than I first thought.
There are holes in it for sure. But all shows have that. As someone pointed out you can't shoot a 50 caliber machine gun into a train and not expect to hurt someone. But then again you can't strictly adhere to the premise because then there would not be any action.
This thing for me will be a head scratcher. They will clear some things up in the last episode to keep people on the hook for the 2nd season.
There are holes in it for sure. But all shows have that. As someone pointed out you can't shoot a 50 caliber machine gun into a train and not expect to hurt someone. But then again you can't strictly adhere to the premise because then there would not be any action.
This thing for me will be a head scratcher. They will clear some things up in the last episode to keep people on the hook for the 2nd season.
MIB's backstory is not consistent of what we know of William, at all. To the point I think either MIB is not William, but perhaps Logan, or that the MIB was lying out of his ass when he told Teddy that story.
William's character hardly strikes anybody as one with violence hidden under a thin veneer, as the MIB implied his wife and daughter believed. We also know that William's fiance isn't some damsel in distress. Logan and William have implied she is a very aggressive and capable person on her own, if I recall correctly. I do specifically remember Logan saying his sister screwed the hosts while she was in Westworld. That just does not fit the narrative that MIB painted in his backstory of a beautiful and dutiful wife who just kept her head down and said or did nothing for thirty years while she lived in fear of her husband hurting her and then eventually committed suicide.
William's character hardly strikes anybody as one with violence hidden under a thin veneer, as the MIB implied his wife and daughter believed. We also know that William's fiance isn't some damsel in distress. Logan and William have implied she is a very aggressive and capable person on her own, if I recall correctly. I do specifically remember Logan saying his sister screwed the hosts while she was in Westworld. That just does not fit the narrative that MIB painted in his backstory of a beautiful and dutiful wife who just kept her head down and said or did nothing for thirty years while she lived in fear of her husband hurting her and then eventually committed suicide.
Seems pretty obvious to me that Ford sent him to kill Elsie.RossK10 said:
So the things Ford said about Theresa trying to transmit data were correct, right? If so, could it have been Theresa who sent Bernard to kill Elsie? Maybe she discovered/knew he was a host.
Also, I keep seeing a theory that says that William turns into MiB because he kills Logan at some point. Some people seem to think that William/MiB's wife kills herself because of this. But MiB said that he wanted to kill Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt anything. If William killed Logan, why would "he" (aka MiB) need to kill again to see if he felt anything?
So Ford flat out lied to him about that? I got the impression he was telling the truth, and Bernard realized he killed her on his own.Quote:
Seems pretty obvious to me that Ford sent him to kill Elsie.
Ford did have Bernard kill her.
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