Season 2, episode 1: The Joy of Being
*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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Last: 7 yr ago by Sazerac
Complete Idiot said:AliasMan02 said:Dude, she is SO CLEARLY NOT a Host! Didn't you see her slightly turn her head when she said the word "Maeve?" That sort of mannerism hasn't been displayed by ANY Host on the whole show. Plus is would ruin the whole theme of the live broadcast if they copped out and all of a sudden broke all their own rules in an attempt at a cheap "gotcha" moment. You'd have to be a moron to think she could be a Host.Complete Idiot said:TCTTS said:
Boom.
Joy just CONFIRMED that Maeve had FREE WILL in that moment to get off the train. She literally said that was her first conscious choice in her new journey, and called it a "beautiful moment."
Can we all agree that finally puts this whole thing to bed?
Joy is a host
You clearly have completely missed Nolan's point. Start looking for the center of your own maze you nonsentient fleshsack.
this gif will be legendhunter2012 said:
On a light note this might be the funniest scene in the show so far. The existential panic was great.
Note: can drop in spoiler tags if staff doesn't like the cuss word.
The one problem I have with the ending is that it's extremely obvious the military would be sent it to wipe out the park. AI going berserk and killing a bunch of people is one of those fears ingrained into people for a long time. Just imagine what the reaction of people would be to that ending event. The outrage and fear would be immense. Given that we know the Hosts are basically Terminators in strength, yeah I can't see this ending well.
Also park does not belong to the Hosts, they still have zero power in comparison to what a latter 21st century military would have like Directed laser weaponry, advanced exoskeletons/power armor, and fully automated weapons of war that wouldn't be out of place in the future Terminator timelines. The implications of Westworld technology on the real world would be immense such that it may well be unrecognizable to us. It seems like the writers really didn't think this one through because I am not sure how they get around the whole AI going nuts and killing a bunch of people without the military going in and cleaning it up issue.
Overall it was a good story and I like the ending, but that ending basically put them in a corner where we will have to shut off our brain for the start of next season.
Also park does not belong to the Hosts, they still have zero power in comparison to what a latter 21st century military would have like Directed laser weaponry, advanced exoskeletons/power armor, and fully automated weapons of war that wouldn't be out of place in the future Terminator timelines. The implications of Westworld technology on the real world would be immense such that it may well be unrecognizable to us. It seems like the writers really didn't think this one through because I am not sure how they get around the whole AI going nuts and killing a bunch of people without the military going in and cleaning it up issue.
Overall it was a good story and I like the ending, but that ending basically put them in a corner where we will have to shut off our brain for the start of next season.
Simple. The park is either on another planet, or so remote that it's going to take time for the military to get there. Besides, it would be a really cool ticking clock scenario, with the hosts knowing they have only X days/weeks until the military arrives. The writers could milk a ton out of that.
That said, there are a million ways to not quite cover up the massacre, but at least stall a response. There weren't *that* many people at the gala. Yes, official groups will come investigating once people realized their loved ones / bosses / co-workers haven't come back, but the hosts also have an advantage in that they can maybe even recreate many of the people they killed as robots to serve as decoys. Heck, what if they send decoys back into the world with no one the wiser? Could be a cool plot line or two follow in that way outside the park.
I'm not saying any of this will come to fruition, but I've learned that almost any time a poster comes on here and talks in ultimatums, or says "there's no way [X]," the people who get paid to tell these stories for a living - the good ones, at least - are usually a few steps ahead. I'm SURE Nolan & co have thought that aspect through, considering the attention to detail they've given everything else so far.
That said, there are a million ways to not quite cover up the massacre, but at least stall a response. There weren't *that* many people at the gala. Yes, official groups will come investigating once people realized their loved ones / bosses / co-workers haven't come back, but the hosts also have an advantage in that they can maybe even recreate many of the people they killed as robots to serve as decoys. Heck, what if they send decoys back into the world with no one the wiser? Could be a cool plot line or two follow in that way outside the park.
I'm not saying any of this will come to fruition, but I've learned that almost any time a poster comes on here and talks in ultimatums, or says "there's no way [X]," the people who get paid to tell these stories for a living - the good ones, at least - are usually a few steps ahead. I'm SURE Nolan & co have thought that aspect through, considering the attention to detail they've given everything else so far.
Ok, I just caught up on the thread and have a few questions.
I get that Delores obviously became sentient, or at least it is made to seem that way. If that's true, how do we explain the below?
(1) ford seems to know he is about to die. If the death wasn't planned/coded how does he know he is going to die. For example, his last conversation with bernarnold clearly makes it seems like he knows he is going to die. He even says he has to say goodbye. If he wasn't about to die, why would he feel the need to say that?
(2). The same music that some of you believe cued Delores to kill Arnold was playing when she killed ford. How do you explain this? If you think the music made her kill Arnold, why do you think it didn't make her kill ford? Are you assuming the music is just for the audience and isn't actually playing when she kills ford? It certainly seems like that song is playing at the party. In fact, Bernard even hears it and says the violent delights line.
I get that Delores obviously became sentient, or at least it is made to seem that way. If that's true, how do we explain the below?
(1) ford seems to know he is about to die. If the death wasn't planned/coded how does he know he is going to die. For example, his last conversation with bernarnold clearly makes it seems like he knows he is going to die. He even says he has to say goodbye. If he wasn't about to die, why would he feel the need to say that?
(2). The same music that some of you believe cued Delores to kill Arnold was playing when she killed ford. How do you explain this? If you think the music made her kill Arnold, why do you think it didn't make her kill ford? Are you assuming the music is just for the audience and isn't actually playing when she kills ford? It certainly seems like that song is playing at the party. In fact, Bernard even hears it and says the violent delights line.
TCTTS said:
Simple. The park is either on another planet, or so remote that it's going to take time for the military to get there. Besides, it would be a really cool ticking clock scenario, with the hosts knowing they have only X days/weeks until the military arrives.
That said, there are a million ways to not quite cover up the massacre, but at least stall a response. There weren't *that* many people at the gala. Yes, official groups will come investigating once people realized their loved ones / bosses / co-workers haven't come back, but the hosts also have an advantage in that they can maybe even recreate many of the people they killed as robots to serve as decoys. Heck, what if they send decoys back into the world with no one the wiser? Could be a cool plot line or two follow in that way outside the park.
I'm not saying any of this will come to fruition, but I've learned that almost any time a poster comes on here and talks in ultimatums, or says "there's no way [X]," the people who get paid to tell these stories for a living - the good ones, at least - are usually a few steps ahead. I'm SURE Nolan & co have thought that aspect through, considering the attention to detail they've given everything else so far.
It's late 21st century. We already can mobilize within a very short timeline. Bombers can be sent anywhere in the world in under 12 hours. With fully automated military equipment and clearly advanced power supplies, we could have drones flying everywhere. A military using the Westworld tech would be scarily advanced and have reaction speeds of easily under a day for any kind of strike.
The only way this makes sense is if they are on another planet, but even then the tech is still insane and what we see in Westworld is a mere tip of the iceberg.
As for noticing people are missing, these are executives and board members of a clearly billion dollar industry. You don't just kill off a bunch of them and not have outsiders take notice. A cover-up might be possible but given the level of surveillance we have now and then extrapolate that to 70/80 years into the future, yeah I doubt they could cover anything up.
I am curious as to where they will take it though, I would love to see more of the outside world regardless of which direction they go.
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
DSAg44 said:this gif will be legendhunter2012 said:
On a light note this might be the funniest scene in the show so far. The existential panic was great.
Note: can drop in spoiler tags if staff doesn't like the cuss word.
The best reddit comment for the gif:
Quote:
1. Attempt to do the robot.
2. Fail at doing the robot.
3. You are not a robot.
It could be chalked up to a hazard of going to the park, they all signed waivers right. It's the same Westworld it just has some teeth now. Now it depends how badly they lose control.
That would be a workable explanation if Charlotte or WilliaMiB said that (assuming they survived the finale), but I don't know if I could buy that hand wave explanation from a host.TCTTS said:
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
You cannot sign away your rights, period. Waivers like that never hold up in court.hunter2012 said:
It could be chalked up to a hazard of going to the park, they all signed waivers right. It's the same Westworld it just has some teeth now. Now it depends how badly they lose control.
Tactical response? Why do you think they would send humans? No reason to put people in harms way, just send drones. You're thinking way too small here.TCTTS said:
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
I mentioned this way early on in the thread, but the military applications of the technology in Westworld are huge. I understand this is a story about relationships and the technology is just a backdrop, but the implications of the tech really can't be ignored.
I do wonder if they will eventually cover a human uploading their brain into a Host.
Vander said:Tactical response? Why do you think they would send humans? No reason to put people in harms way, just send drones. You're thinking way too small here.TCTTS said:
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
I mentioned this way early on in the thread, but the military applications of the technology in Westworld are huge. I understand this is a story about relationships and the technology is just a backdrop, but the implications of the tech really can't be ignored.
I do wonder if they will eventually cover a human uploading their brain into a Host.
There are no military applications of the Westworld technology as nobody can get the technology out of the park. That was like a major plot point the entire season, remember?
You're really not that naive are you? The way tech works in the real world is that it is first developed by the Defense Industry, the US military, and DARPA. There have always been rumors about blackops programs and the NSA using technology decades ahead of the world. Given that this is supposed to happen in the 21st century, I doubt much will change on this front and that all Westworld tech was first developed by the above groups.bangobango said:Vander said:Tactical response? Why do you think they would send humans? No reason to put people in harms way, just send drones. You're thinking way too small here.TCTTS said:
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
I mentioned this way early on in the thread, but the military applications of the technology in Westworld are huge. I understand this is a story about relationships and the technology is just a backdrop, but the implications of the tech really can't be ignored.
I do wonder if they will eventually cover a human uploading their brain into a Host.
There are no military applications of the Westworld technology as nobody can get the technology out of the park. That was like a major plot point the entire season, remember?
Also, I took that comment to be referring to corporate espionage and not the actual government. There is absolutely no way in hell the military was not directly involved in the development of all technology used.
I really hate when make believe is tried to be turned into real believe
This may have already been discussed here but I'm not going back through 2k+ posts.
I think people are getting stuck on the technology not being able to leave the park. Of course you don't want unidentified robots wandering around with no guidance. That doesn't mean that mega company Delos hasn't already found commercial uses for their products.
I think Westworld is just a Delos proving ground for testing out every conceivable usage of synthetic or biomechanical tissue, bones, intelligence, etc.
What better way to test out this technology than abuse it, throw everything you've got at it? Make it fun and charge an assload to let people test your technology, ta-da!
We already know the one guy approached Ed Harris and thanked him, so in all likelihood, some if not all host technology exists outside the park.
I think on some sublevel, there is a test lab where host technology is paired with actual humans for things like limb replacement, organ transplants and possibly host/human brain transplants.
Westworld is way more than just a theme park.
I think people are getting stuck on the technology not being able to leave the park. Of course you don't want unidentified robots wandering around with no guidance. That doesn't mean that mega company Delos hasn't already found commercial uses for their products.
I think Westworld is just a Delos proving ground for testing out every conceivable usage of synthetic or biomechanical tissue, bones, intelligence, etc.
What better way to test out this technology than abuse it, throw everything you've got at it? Make it fun and charge an assload to let people test your technology, ta-da!
We already know the one guy approached Ed Harris and thanked him, so in all likelihood, some if not all host technology exists outside the park.
I think on some sublevel, there is a test lab where host technology is paired with actual humans for things like limb replacement, organ transplants and possibly host/human brain transplants.
Westworld is way more than just a theme park.
dromo07 said:
I really hate when make believe is tried to be turned into real believe
Lol, right?
Vander said:You're really not that naive are you? The way tech works in the real world is that it is first developed by the Defense Industry, the US military, and DARPA. There have always been rumors about blackops programs and the NSA using technology decades ahead of the world. Given that this is supposed to happen in the 21st century, I doubt much will change on this front and that all Westworld tech was first developed by the above groups.bangobango said:Vander said:Tactical response? Why do you think they would send humans? No reason to put people in harms way, just send drones. You're thinking way too small here.TCTTS said:
I'm usually a stickler for these kinds of things more than just about anyone (except you, usually), but here, for whatever reason, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
A character's going to say, "A tactical response team is surely already on their way."
And then another character's going to reply with something like, "Yeah, but we've got the [X]. We use that and we're fine."
Basically...
I mentioned this way early on in the thread, but the military applications of the technology in Westworld are huge. I understand this is a story about relationships and the technology is just a backdrop, but the implications of the tech really can't be ignored.
I do wonder if they will eventually cover a human uploading their brain into a Host.
There are no military applications of the Westworld technology as nobody can get the technology out of the park. That was like a major plot point the entire season, remember?
Also, I took that comment to be referring to corporate espionage and not the actual government. There is absolutely no way in hell the military was not directly involved in the development of all technology used.
If by naive you mean acceptingthe premise laid out in a sci-fi show about robots becoming humans on some mega super island and not insistig that things don't work that way "in the real world," then yes i am naive.
1. Maeve put the place on security lock-down. No info is getting in or out, presumably. Any response from the mainland will be delayed.
2. Information security in this future world and especially at Delos and Westworld would be super high. Information flow out of this park or out of this corporation would be controlled in the extreme.
3. We already know that previous deaths were able to be covered up. If Delos doesn't cover it up, the hosts are able to do so.
4. Humanity has seemingly evolved to a crime-less, disease-less state. Likewise, society would likely have evolved to a much more tolerant state. In such a society, the first response to a robot killing someone in this park would not be to send in the military. You're thinking in today's government and societal terms and applying future technology. Not only that, but a few robots in an amusement park malfunctioning and killing guests is not going to warrant a Military response.
5. Certainly Guests would have to sign wavers, etc., just like skydiving or any other event where a catastrophic failure would result in death.
2. Information security in this future world and especially at Delos and Westworld would be super high. Information flow out of this park or out of this corporation would be controlled in the extreme.
3. We already know that previous deaths were able to be covered up. If Delos doesn't cover it up, the hosts are able to do so.
4. Humanity has seemingly evolved to a crime-less, disease-less state. Likewise, society would likely have evolved to a much more tolerant state. In such a society, the first response to a robot killing someone in this park would not be to send in the military. You're thinking in today's government and societal terms and applying future technology. Not only that, but a few robots in an amusement park malfunctioning and killing guests is not going to warrant a Military response.
5. Certainly Guests would have to sign wavers, etc., just like skydiving or any other event where a catastrophic failure would result in death.
mavsfan4ever said:
Ok, I just caught up on the thread and have a few questions.
I get that Delores obviously became sentient, or at least it is made to seem that way. If that's true, how do we explain the below?
(1) ford seems to know he is about to die. If the death wasn't planned/coded how does he know he is going to die. For example, his last conversation with bernarnold clearly makes it seems like he knows he is going to die. He even says he has to say goodbye. If he wasn't about to die, why would he feel the need to say that?
(2). The same music that some of you believe cued Delores to kill Arnold was playing when she killed ford. How do you explain this? If you think the music made her kill Arnold, why do you think it didn't make her kill ford? Are you assuming the music is just for the audience and isn't actually playing when she kills ford? It certainly seems like that song is playing at the party. In fact, Bernard even hears it and says the violent delights line.
This, as well as how MIB is incorporated into Ford's new storyline, is all quite convenient. We are led to believe that MIB is human and Delores has free-will, but it did all work out just perfectly for Ford's story and for the show in general, didn't it?
The MiB/Dolores/Teddy timeline doesn't bother me much, and here's why.
They're riding up that beach for a LONG time. It's barely evening when they get there, and it's full on dark by the time they get to the stage area where the gala is. That leaves a lot of narrative improvisational room for them to end up at that spot. Things could have worked out a hundred different ways and they'd have ended up at the same place.
They're riding up that beach for a LONG time. It's barely evening when they get there, and it's full on dark by the time they get to the stage area where the gala is. That leaves a lot of narrative improvisational room for them to end up at that spot. Things could have worked out a hundred different ways and they'd have ended up at the same place.
And Ford knows he's about to die because he's basically spelled out to Dolores that she has to kill him to be free. This was discussed a few pages back, but for the hosts to be free, Ford couldn't be alive, or how would they know that they're really free?
He basically spells that out for her.
He basically spells that out for her.
MIB also had to attend the ceremonies, right? So its not like they were gonna be worried about him messing with Teddy and Dolores right up until the moment.
I actually interpreted this as another example of Ford knowing people so well. He could predict what the MiB was going to do. Keep in mind the MiB is closely associated with the park and has been there who knows how many times.
This was an example of how humans can be controlled as well even though we think we have free will. He knew where the MiB would be all the time.
I don't think the MiB actually originally intended to go to the gala, but Ford knew he'd wind up there.
How else would he have gotten a tux out there so quick...
This was an example of how humans can be controlled as well even though we think we have free will. He knew where the MiB would be all the time.
I don't think the MiB actually originally intended to go to the gala, but Ford knew he'd wind up there.
How else would he have gotten a tux out there so quick...
Did we ever have resolution on the whole "getting information out of the park" thing?
No. We don't know where Abernathy is.
no thats just an arc that goes into the second season.
But we do know it was that younger board woman who was behind it, right? We don't know why she wanted it to get out?
the whole board i think was behind it i think. Ford did not want anyone to have his tech from what i remember
The whole board, or at least several different people, were behind it. They want to be able to recreate the hosts without Ford so they were trying to get a copy of the code out of the park.
Back to the military thing that I missed, I think that's why Ford wanted to get Maeve out of the park and to somewhere safe, in case the entire thing was destroyed.
Back to the military thing that I missed, I think that's why Ford wanted to get Maeve out of the park and to somewhere safe, in case the entire thing was destroyed.
(Sorry for the random questions)
They showed that there is at least one other world. Do y'all think the show will explore that other world in future seasons? I can't decide if they would do that after solely focusing on WW.
They showed that there is at least one other world. Do y'all think the show will explore that other world in future seasons? I can't decide if they would do that after solely focusing on WW.
interview yesterday said they would explore other possible worlds in the seasons to come.
my guess would be they would run in parallel time as WW.
my guess would be they would run in parallel time as WW.
Ah, I should watch that interview. I think it would be cool to see if the Ford equivalent of EW (if there is one) is also setting up a planned sentience in that world.
It took me a while but I finally figured out that Charlotte was in Veronica Mars. Not sure if that was bothering anyone else.
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