*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by Sazerac
Just rewatched first episode. My random thoughts and questions:
Why do they wear hazmat suits to search Dolores's house?
Dolores is the oldest host there, I am guessing she hasn't always had the same storyline. That may what enda up disproving the William = MIB theory.
They rotate off the park. Seems to indicate they are somewhere that requires a lot of travel to get to.
The freezer for the decommissioned livestock is on Sub-level 83! How freaking deep does this thing go? And somebody mentioned they go up on the elevator to get to the park.
Decommissioned robots all sitting on the Sub-level 83 waiting to be repurposed. What could somebody do with hundreds or thousands of robots that will unquestioningly obey any command and cannot be killed? Seems like the perfect way for a super-villain to build a super army. Maybe that's the board's agenda?
200 robots = 10% of the hosts. Aggie math tells me there are 2000 hosts. Later comment indicates there are 1400 visitors. Really kind of surprised the ratio is that close to each other.
Why do they wear hazmat suits to search Dolores's house?
Dolores is the oldest host there, I am guessing she hasn't always had the same storyline. That may what enda up disproving the William = MIB theory.
They rotate off the park. Seems to indicate they are somewhere that requires a lot of travel to get to.
The freezer for the decommissioned livestock is on Sub-level 83! How freaking deep does this thing go? And somebody mentioned they go up on the elevator to get to the park.
Decommissioned robots all sitting on the Sub-level 83 waiting to be repurposed. What could somebody do with hundreds or thousands of robots that will unquestioningly obey any command and cannot be killed? Seems like the perfect way for a super-villain to build a super army. Maybe that's the board's agenda?
200 robots = 10% of the hosts. Aggie math tells me there are 2000 hosts. Later comment indicates there are 1400 visitors. Really kind of surprised the ratio is that close to each other.
My guess on the hazmat suits is to not contaminate the world. There's enough biological material that regular diseases could be transmitted. Like Maeve getting mrsa. Or to prevent any accidental present time artifacts getting left behind. Like the picture Dolores's dad found.
Did anyone notice when Dolores was looking at the moon that it looked colonized?
I need a meme of MIB threatening to cut peoples' throats for interrupting his vacation
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Quote:
They rotate off the park. Seems to indicate they are somewhere that requires a lot of travel to get to.
The freezer for the decommissioned livestock is on Sub-level 83! How freaking deep does this thing go? And somebody mentioned they go up on the elevator to get to the park.
Episode 4 seems to disprove that theory. TMiB was recognized by another guest, who approached him and tried to thank him for his foundation's work. TMiB is not just a real person, but also a genuine celebrity outside of Westworld. He's famous, which means he can't be Arnold because the Westworld staff would know who he is, too. It also suggests a future plot point -- he's a villain inside Westworld, and a hero outside it. Moreover, the guest's reaction when TMiB threatened him for disturbing his vacation was shock. Clearly, the guest was expecting a warmer reception than "**** off or I'll kill you."La Fours said:
I only skimmed this thread. But did anyone speculate that TMiB is the cofounder Ford mentioned in the last episode that is no longer part of westworld?
La Fours said:
My guess on the hazmat suits is to not contaminate the world. There's enough biological material that regular diseases could be transmitted. Like Maeve getting mrsa. Or to prevent any accidental present time artifacts getting left behind. Like the picture Dolores's dad found.
I think this is my biggest beef with the world -- we're obviously at an advanced technological level, can look over the whole park, re-route hosts, etc, etc... but there is no "tag" for items that were not created for/in this world?
Along those same lines -- is it just a coincidence that Rockstar recently announced a new Red Dead game? The big reveal will be Bernard's son has been playing Red Dead Redemption 2 the entire time, which now features VR technology. The entire series is just a big video game commercial.G Martin 87 said:Or Bernard's autistic son playing with a Westworld snowglobe.AtlAg05 said:
The could go the whole inception route, the west is the first layer, but the command center is the second. Guests can play cowboy or be a park employee for a day that oversees the park for other guests.
The big reveal will be some kid playing Westworld Tycoon on his PC.
I'm planning to use "One more word and I'll cut your throat. This is my ****ing vacation" at some point on my next vacation.
Any chance they wear the suits to confuse the hosts in case they have a memory? It occurs to me that the tech girl and dude went into the world without suits, as did Bernard and Ford. Or, is it that all of those people are hosts, hence why they didn't need to use the suits. Or do the suits only come on when they are operating on the hosts? I don't remember.
Timelines:
Its hard to follow this show on one viewing at weekly intervals. But the timelines still seem disconnected to me. Although now it seems however that the Logan/William and MIB storylines are in the future compared to the park management storylines.
It seems like everything we are dealing with among the park operators is around the time that Ford's new storyline is still being developed, while we don't see any proof that the MIB storylines or William storylines are running concurrently with management. The only one we see interacting with them and commenting about the MIB is the head of security (who I think is a host). It also seems like the storylines that William and MIB are dealing with occur AFTER Ford has developed and deployed his Wyatt/religious storyline.
Its hard to follow this show on one viewing at weekly intervals. But the timelines still seem disconnected to me. Although now it seems however that the Logan/William and MIB storylines are in the future compared to the park management storylines.
It seems like everything we are dealing with among the park operators is around the time that Ford's new storyline is still being developed, while we don't see any proof that the MIB storylines or William storylines are running concurrently with management. The only one we see interacting with them and commenting about the MIB is the head of security (who I think is a host). It also seems like the storylines that William and MIB are dealing with occur AFTER Ford has developed and deployed his Wyatt/religious storyline.
They comment that Dolores has ridden off with William and his brother in law and they send somebody in to bring her home, which she refuses and William interrupts. Lots of evidence that the MIB and William are in the same timeline as command center, including Hector being release a week early and shooting up the town earlier than expected after MIB frees him, then command having to go clean it up because "homesteader" families are heading into Sweetwater. Not to mention previews for next week.JJxvi said:
Timelines:
Its hard to follow this show on one viewing at weekly intervals. But the timelines still seem disconnected to me. Although now it seems however that the Logan/William and MIB storylines are in the future compared to the park management storylines.
It seems like everything we are dealing with among the park operators is around the time that Ford's new storyline is still being developed, while we don't see any proof that the MIB storylines or William storylines are running concurrently with management. The only one we see interacting with them and commenting about the MIB is the head of security (who I think is a host). It also seems like the storylines that William and MIB are dealing with occur AFTER Ford has developed and deployed his Wyatt/religious storyline.
You saw live interaction between the MIB and management last week when he got clearance to use the explosives.
They wore white hazmat suits when they went into Dolores's home after her dad went crazy. Then they have a different suit that they wear when they are operating on the hosts. That suit has a full face plate and I think that is the suit that the prostitute was drawing and freaking out about.MW03 said:
Any chance they wear the suits to confuse the hosts in case they have a memory? It occurs to me that the tech girl and dude went into the world without suits, as did Bernard and Ford. Or, is it that all of those people are hosts, hence why they didn't need to use the suits. Or do the suits only come on when they are operating on the hosts? I don't remember.
Yep, MIB appears to be a philanthropist in real life. Probably show him at some point outside the park with his wife and grand kids being the nicest old grandpa figure you could imagine.G Martin 87 said:Episode 4 seems to disprove that theory. TMiB was recognized by another guest, who approached him and tried to thank him for his foundation's work. TMiB is not just a real person, but also a genuine celebrity outside of Westworld. He's famous, which means he can't be Arnold because the Westworld staff would know who he is, too. It also suggests a future plot point -- he's a villain inside Westworld, and a hero outside it. Moreover, the guest's reaction when TMiB threatened him for disturbing his vacation was shock. Clearly, the guest was expecting a warmer reception than "**** off or I'll kill you."La Fours said:
I only skimmed this thread. But did anyone speculate that TMiB is the cofounder Ford mentioned in the last episode that is no longer part of westworld?
We have seen Ashley the security guy interact with MIB and with the William/Dolores storyline, which I now believe to be running concurrently as shown.
We have not seen (tell me if I'm wrong I don't remember) Ford, Bernard, Theresa, the head writer guy or the programmer chick interact with these characters within their current storyline at all. Weve only seen them interact with these hosts outside of the park in god knows when separated from the park storyline we are seeing.
I think all of that management stuff is happening some time before whats going on in the park. Another reason that makes me think that is the unfinished church steeple that Ford showed Bernard seems to be from the church that is now in the weird town with the maze clue girl.
We have not seen (tell me if I'm wrong I don't remember) Ford, Bernard, Theresa, the head writer guy or the programmer chick interact with these characters within their current storyline at all. Weve only seen them interact with these hosts outside of the park in god knows when separated from the park storyline we are seeing.
I think all of that management stuff is happening some time before whats going on in the park. Another reason that makes me think that is the unfinished church steeple that Ford showed Bernard seems to be from the church that is now in the weird town with the maze clue girl.
Bernard retired Dolores's father. He tipped off Dolores on the maze and then she started looking for the maze while on the quest with William. The clear implication was that they pulled her out of the camp that night and talked to her, though for whatever reason a lot of posters on this thread seem hell bent on making disparate timelines for everything.JJxvi said:
We have seen Ashley the security guy interact with MIB and with the William/Dolores storyline, which I now believe to be running concurrently as shown.
We have not seen (tell me if I'm wrong I don't remember) Ford, Bernard, Theresa, the head writer guy or the programmer chick interact with these characters within their current storyline at all. Weve only seen them interact with these hosts outside of the park in god knows when separated from the park storyline we are seeing.
I think all of that management stuff is happening some time before whats going on in the park. Another reason that makes me think that is the unfinished church steeple that Ford showed Bernard seems to be from the church that is now in the weird town with the maze clue girl.
At some point, it just gets too confusing and is bad storytelling. I think we are seeing everything concurrent, and again, the the previews for next week seem to confirm this.
Bernard involved in knowing about the maze is my only real problem with my understanding of the timeline, because it seems like the maze would be being developed with the church town and the girl who gives directions, etc. Not as big a problem if Bernard is indeed a host, and also not as big a problem if we're only talking a couple years difference in time. I dont know how all that fits, but it seems like the Church, Wyatt, etc all parts of Fords new storyline are inherently involved in how you get to the maze.
I also in no way believe that that Bernard/Dolores conversation literally happened that night. Bernard pulled her out of the campsite where two guests were? "Hey sorry to intrude on your vacations, we gotta chat up this robot for a bit while you sleep!" Or maybe they gas the hosts so they wont notice or something?
The security guy sent another host to go get her, and he was rebuffed because she was with a guest. The end. Bernard didnt literally talk to her that night taking her from their camp.
I also in no way believe that that Bernard/Dolores conversation literally happened that night. Bernard pulled her out of the campsite where two guests were? "Hey sorry to intrude on your vacations, we gotta chat up this robot for a bit while you sleep!" Or maybe they gas the hosts so they wont notice or something?
The security guy sent another host to go get her, and he was rebuffed because she was with a guest. The end. Bernard didnt literally talk to her that night taking her from their camp.
JJxvi said:
Bernard involved in knowing about the maze is my only real problem with my understanding of the timeline, because it seems like the maze would be being developed with the church town and the girl who gives directions, etc. Not as big a problem if Bernard is indeed a host, and also not as big a problem if we're only talking a couple years difference in time. I dont know how all that fits, but it seems like the Church, Wyatt, etc all parts of Fords new storyline are inherently involved in how you get to the maze.
I also in no way believe that that Bernard/Dolores conversation literally happened that night. Bernard pulled her out of the campsite where two guests were? "Hey sorry to intrude on your vacations, we gotta chat up this robot for a bit while you sleep!" Or maybe they gas the hosts so they wont notice or something?
The security guy sent another host to go get her, and he was rebuffed because she was with a guest. The end. Bernard didnt literally talk to her that night taking her from their camp.
You don't k ow of he did or not. It certainly was made to seem that way. Now, maybe they are trying to mislead us, but you really don't have any proof of that.
That's my point. Everyone is assuming everything is a con by the writers, but nobody is really basing that on anything we see on the show, it's all just kind of meta this is how these types of shows go assumptions.
There is no reason to assume there are disparate timelines. None. You may suspect, which is fine, but there is no evidence that this is true.
Also, I'm pretty sure the Maze is something Arnold built/designed. I think they said as much. I feel like the maze is something underlying the game that has been there since the beginning, and not something Ford is currently designing.
One thing that bugs me about this episode was the "we don't know if there's a guest with Dolores or not" bit. Um, yes you do, you've already shown you have cameras all over the place.
So, let's get into the weeds a little bit.
The fact that they sent someone in for Dolores challenges the two timeline theory, but it doesn't disprove it if you're a believer of the "people at headquarters are hosts" theory. Stubbs is wearing something different at headquarters when he sends the person out for Dolores than he is when he approves the incendiary device for the MiB. So those aren't concurrent, but we don't know by how much.
We also see two different scenes of Dolores in that town. The little girl on the well is clearly not there in the timeline with William at first, nor is she there at the end.
Anyway, I still think we're going to ultimately see that almost this entire thing has happened before, and everyone's mind is going to be wiped and/or they're dead, and only William is going to remember it.
So, let's get into the weeds a little bit.
The fact that they sent someone in for Dolores challenges the two timeline theory, but it doesn't disprove it if you're a believer of the "people at headquarters are hosts" theory. Stubbs is wearing something different at headquarters when he sends the person out for Dolores than he is when he approves the incendiary device for the MiB. So those aren't concurrent, but we don't know by how much.
We also see two different scenes of Dolores in that town. The little girl on the well is clearly not there in the timeline with William at first, nor is she there at the end.
Anyway, I still think we're going to ultimately see that almost this entire thing has happened before, and everyone's mind is going to be wiped and/or they're dead, and only William is going to remember it.
That has nothing to do with people thinking that he didn't literally talk to Dolores that night. Everybody thinks that because they have stated in the show that they do everything they can to not break the immersion of the guests. Even during one of the meetings between Bernard and Dolores, he tells her something along the lines of "now get back, before somebody misses you."bangobango said:JJxvi said:
Bernard involved in knowing about the maze is my only real problem with my understanding of the timeline, because it seems like the maze would be being developed with the church town and the girl who gives directions, etc. Not as big a problem if Bernard is indeed a host, and also not as big a problem if we're only talking a couple years difference in time. I dont know how all that fits, but it seems like the Church, Wyatt, etc all parts of Fords new storyline are inherently involved in how you get to the maze.
I also in no way believe that that Bernard/Dolores conversation literally happened that night. Bernard pulled her out of the campsite where two guests were? "Hey sorry to intrude on your vacations, we gotta chat up this robot for a bit while you sleep!" Or maybe they gas the hosts so they wont notice or something?
The security guy sent another host to go get her, and he was rebuffed because she was with a guest. The end. Bernard didnt literally talk to her that night taking her from their camp.
You don't k ow of he did or not. It certainly was made to seem that way. Now, maybe they are trying to mislead us, but you really don't have any proof of that.
That's my point. Everyone is assuming everything is a con by the writers, but nobody is really basing that on anything we see on the show, it's all just kind of meta this is how these types of shows go assumptions.
There is no reason to assume there are disparate timelines. None. You may suspect, which is fine, but there is no evidence that this is true.
Also, I'm pretty sure the Maze is something Arnold built/designed. I think they said as much. I feel like the maze is something underlying the game that has been there since the beginning, and not something Ford is currently designing.
I understand that you absolutely have the multi time frame theory, but this has nothing to do with that.
My point is that what seems to be happening on this thread is we have:3rdGen2015 said:That has nothing to do with people thinking that he didn't literally talk to Dolores that night. Everybody thinks that because they have stated in the show that they do everything they can to not break the immersion of the guests. Even during one of the meetings between Bernard and Dolores, he tells her something along the lines of "now get back, before somebody misses you."bangobango said:JJxvi said:
Bernard involved in knowing about the maze is my only real problem with my understanding of the timeline, because it seems like the maze would be being developed with the church town and the girl who gives directions, etc. Not as big a problem if Bernard is indeed a host, and also not as big a problem if we're only talking a couple years difference in time. I dont know how all that fits, but it seems like the Church, Wyatt, etc all parts of Fords new storyline are inherently involved in how you get to the maze.
I also in no way believe that that Bernard/Dolores conversation literally happened that night. Bernard pulled her out of the campsite where two guests were? "Hey sorry to intrude on your vacations, we gotta chat up this robot for a bit while you sleep!" Or maybe they gas the hosts so they wont notice or something?
The security guy sent another host to go get her, and he was rebuffed because she was with a guest. The end. Bernard didnt literally talk to her that night taking her from their camp.
You don't k ow of he did or not. It certainly was made to seem that way. Now, maybe they are trying to mislead us, but you really don't have any proof of that.
That's my point. Everyone is assuming everything is a con by the writers, but nobody is really basing that on anything we see on the show, it's all just kind of meta this is how these types of shows go assumptions.
There is no reason to assume there are disparate timelines. None. You may suspect, which is fine, but there is no evidence that this is true.
Also, I'm pretty sure the Maze is something Arnold built/designed. I think they said as much. I feel like the maze is something underlying the game that has been there since the beginning, and not something Ford is currently designing.
I understand that you absolutely have the multi time frame theory, but this has nothing to do with that.
Scene A/cut/Scene B/cut/Scene C
And, rather than work with the underlying assumption that these scenes happened in chronological order, everyone is saying "Well I think Scene C happened first and then Scene A and then Scene B."
Which is fine, but it would be nice if somebody could actually point to a reason for thinking that. It's not just these cut-aways with Dolores and Bernard, it's every single thing that is happening in the show. At some point you are just making up timelines to fit your theory.
I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter and I want everybody to discuss it have fun coming up with their crazy theories, but I also prefer for the theories to have some actual evidence from the show to support them.
Love this show.
Still think the possibility exists that the park is actually just full of hosts/androids, and players (guests) VR jack into hosts made in their image by park management, the rest are NPCs. In this way they look the same as in real life, but the park management can control pain, blood, etc.
Wouldn't be suprised to see a similar room to the de-commissioned androids, where the guests are rigged up to VR systems like RPO.
Still think the possibility exists that the park is actually just full of hosts/androids, and players (guests) VR jack into hosts made in their image by park management, the rest are NPCs. In this way they look the same as in real life, but the park management can control pain, blood, etc.
Wouldn't be suprised to see a similar room to the de-commissioned androids, where the guests are rigged up to VR systems like RPO.
Quote:
Set in 2044, that first sci-fi adventure took place in a dystopian future in which people escape their lives by jacking into a virtual reality universe. This VR world was created by a programmer who was obsessed with'80s geek culturewestern culture and built an elaborate treasure hunt into the game based on his very specific predilections.
Forget the show, I can't keep track of all the theories on this thread.
There is some evidence. The logos in the lobby and the changing room for William matched the logos on the worker's jacket in Ford's "flashback" to the early days of the park, and are different from the logos we see in other parts of the show (like when they're unveiling the new narrative for the park, and the logo for the show itself.)Quote:
There is no reason to assume there are disparate timelines. None. You may suspect, which is fine, but there is no evidence that this is true.
Whether or not you think that's a lot of evidence can be debated, but it is evidence.
I appreciate that. Do you have any pics by any chance? I guess I don't remember a Ford flashback?bobinator said:There is some evidence. The logos in the lobby and the changing room for William matched the logos on the worker's jacket in Ford's "flashback" to the early days of the park, and are different from the logos we see in other parts of the show (like when they're unveiling the new narrative for the park, and the logo for the show itself.)Quote:
There is no reason to assume there are disparate timelines. None. You may suspect, which is fine, but there is no evidence that this is true.
Whether or not you think that's a lot of evidence can be debated, but it is evidence.
You dont remember a scene where they made anthony hopkins look young?
To recap the logo issues:
Here is the logo on a labcoat in a flashback scene...
Which is the same logo William sees when he goes up the escalator...
And it's in the changing room that he's in (though they changed it for the thumbnail for the episode)
Which is different from the current park logo
Here is the logo on a labcoat in a flashback scene...
Which is the same logo William sees when he goes up the escalator...
And it's in the changing room that he's in (though they changed it for the thumbnail for the episode)
Which is different from the current park logo
Another bit of evidence that the William scenes are taking place in the past is the church. We see a white church in Dolores' flashbacks while she's with William, and the burned/unfinished steeple on the ground, that Ford sees when talking to the kid and to Bernard in ep 2, could imply that this part of the park was destroyed/burned/buried log before the present time. Of course, Id have to rewatch to see if this church exists in William time.
Im not sure I agree now that William is in the past but the logo's are the clear strongest implication of that.
Im not sure I agree now that William is in the past but the logo's are the clear strongest implication of that.
Why does William's logo have to mean the PAST, it could mean present, or future?
Thats what I thought too, actually after seeing this last episode. Future. But this clearly places it in the past with a younger Ford.
Because it's on the jacket in a flashback from Ford. So we at least know for sure that that logo was used in Ford's past.
Somewhat related is that Ford is the only person on the show that we've seen a younger version of. On the Battlestar Gallactica front, everyone else at this point could potentially be a host.
Lots of crazy theories here. This thread will reach LOST levels for sure.
We are watching this show as a host experiences their world. We are programmed and inclined to view the episode and make sense of the events by putting a story together chronologically. We are getting glitches and glimpses into past/present/alternate events that jumbles everything up. It is only a matter of time before we the viewer unlocks the full history of the park and show.
There is no way to make sense of the show quite yet but this is alot of fun!
We are watching this show as a host experiences their world. We are programmed and inclined to view the episode and make sense of the events by putting a story together chronologically. We are getting glitches and glimpses into past/present/alternate events that jumbles everything up. It is only a matter of time before we the viewer unlocks the full history of the park and show.
There is no way to make sense of the show quite yet but this is alot of fun!
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