Ya wyatt is deloros.
*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by Sazerac
"Wyatt" hasn't been created. Only time we have seen Wyatt has been in cornerstone memories. All the actions that have been Wyatt have actually been Deloros
Agreed. Especially because the actor playing Wyatt in those memories is such a generic no-name. For such an important role, it felt weird that they were going with an actor most of us have never seen before, and that always felt off to me. Dolores as Wyatt makes so much more sense, all things considered.
I go back to the photograph that put Abernathy in his glitch. He found it in episode 1, right? I'm pretty sure it was the day after MiB showed up and shot Teddy and dragged Delores into the barn. It just happens to be the same photo that Logan shoves in William's pocket after berating him about forgetting his fiance/wife? That is a pretty strong piece of evidence that William is the Man in Black. If he's not, then the show was intentionally misleading us all along.
As to his dialoge about Maeve being really alive and it being the first time he'd seen that...well, Maybe he realized at some point after finding Delores that she wasn't quite there, yet. He tells Logan that she's "different" than the other hosts, but not real or alive, right?
As to his dialoge about Maeve being really alive and it being the first time he'd seen that...well, Maybe he realized at some point after finding Delores that she wasn't quite there, yet. He tells Logan that she's "different" than the other hosts, but not real or alive, right?
Said several pages ago that Logan and Hector looks eerily similar, that there were at least 3 timelines in play, that I'm not on board with William = MiB, and that I don't think we have the timelines in the right order.
What order do you think they are if not
1 Dolores kills Arnold
2 Dolores rides off with William
3 Dolores finds the church alone and remembers killing Arnold
1 Dolores kills Arnold
2 Dolores rides off with William
3 Dolores finds the church alone and remembers killing Arnold
The other thing that I keep going back to is when MiB tells Teddy that he killed Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt something. In this last episode, William kills and dismembers a lot of hosts so why would killing Maeve in (presumably) the future be his test to see if he felt something?bangobango said:Couple of theories:RossK10 said:I am thinking this as well. We also see MiB kill Dolores in the first or second episode. William "turns" because of how much he cares for Dolores, so why would MiB want to kill her? Maybe there's some undisclosed event that happens between them, but it just seems so out of character for William.bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."
If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
1. She's the first step to the maze. We see MIB with Dolores, then the next day he scalps the card player in the bar. Maybe he got the tip about the card player from Dolores?
2. He's trying to "reactivate" her and get her searching for the maze again.
I agree that there are some strange dialogue sequences last couple of episodes that seem to cast doubt on MIB = William. For me, the story MIB tells about his wife didn't line up with the mental image I had of his fiance from Logan describing her.
Then William dismembering all the hosts makes it seem like he stops thinking of them as real, but then he is still searching out Dolores. Who knows? There is going to be some confrontation between William, Logan, and Dolores and I imagine one of them will be revealed as the MIB. I supposed it could be Logan, in which case we will, ironically enough, see the MIB as an improvement on what Logan was at the beginning of this story. More contemplative and maybe even more caring.
Dismembering military guys - Provoked, because he needed Logan to be all alone so he can gain the upper hand in the situation.RossK10 said:The other thing that I keep going back to is when MiB tells Teddy that he killed Maeve and her daughter to see if he felt something. In this last episode, William kills and dismembers a lot of hosts so why would killing Maeve in (presumably) the future be his test to see if he felt something?bangobango said:Couple of theories:RossK10 said:I am thinking this as well. We also see MiB kill Dolores in the first or second episode. William "turns" because of how much he cares for Dolores, so why would MiB want to kill her? Maybe there's some undisclosed event that happens between them, but it just seems so out of character for William.bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."
If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
1. She's the first step to the maze. We see MIB with Dolores, then the next day he scalps the card player in the bar. Maybe he got the tip about the card player from Dolores?
2. He's trying to "reactivate" her and get her searching for the maze again.
I agree that there are some strange dialogue sequences last couple of episodes that seem to cast doubt on MIB = William. For me, the story MIB tells about his wife didn't line up with the mental image I had of his fiance from Logan describing her.
Then William dismembering all the hosts makes it seem like he stops thinking of them as real, but then he is still searching out Dolores. Who knows? There is going to be some confrontation between William, Logan, and Dolores and I imagine one of them will be revealed as the MIB. I supposed it could be Logan, in which case we will, ironically enough, see the MIB as an improvement on what Logan was at the beginning of this story. More contemplative and maybe even more caring.
Killing Maeve and daughter - Not Provoked, basically committing cold-blooded murder just to for the hell of it.
even better question... what the hell is logan doing carrying around a picture of his sister in his pocket at all times?
It's entirely possible that it was William's to begin with, that Logan took it when he tied William to the chair
Who carries printed photos today, much less the distant future? I'm tapping out of this series, not realistic at all.TroyMc said:
even better question... what the hell is logan doing carrying around a picture of his sister in his pocket at all times?
How do you know what is realistic in the future? A photo might be the only family reminder you could sneak into the park.
They're not gonna let you bring something digital into Westworld so maybe he smuggled a photo of his sister in with the intent of taunting William with it after he slept with a bunch of roboprostitutes.
Good point, I'll consider re-enabling the series recordings.spanky said:
How do you know what is realistic in the future? A photo might be the only family reminder you could sneak into the park.
Complete Idiot said:Who carries printed photos today, much less the distant future? I'm tapping out of this series, not realistic at all.TroyMc said:
even better question... what the hell is logan doing carrying around a picture of his sister in his pocket at all times?
Is this for real? This is what ends it for you?
Don't feed the troll
i was thinking it was sarcasm
dlance said:MW03 said:
Anyone feel like spending 2 minutes talking about Teddy and his death this iteration. Specifically, what is the implication of him being stabbed and the comment that he's not ready, but maybe in the next life?
Maybe he is being sent back to be recruited by Maeve? I have no idea what is going on with that group.
I think it lends credence to the idea that the new narrative is an elaborate trap of the sentient hosts. Teddy had a flashback, so he is getting closer, but he isn't quite self-aware yet. So, he is killed as he is not yet ready to join Wyatt's group.
Also, I think Wyatt's group believes they are in control of the narrative, given that they successfully attempted to murder the MIB. Have we seen what happened to that human lady that was traveling around with Teddy and encountered Wyatt's group?
In the end, I think Ford traps and maybe kills all of the sentients in some Keyser Soze-like awesomeness.
Doesn't look like anything to me.TroyMc said:
even better question... what the hell is logan doing carrying around a picture of his sister in his pocket at all times?
DannyDuberstein said:Doesn't look like anything to me.TroyMc said:
even better question... what the hell is logan doing carrying around a picture of his sister in his pocket at all times?
Do you think Arnold's voice is all a part of that narrative?
Raptor said:
The line "the maze is not meant for you" has to have a deeper meaning other than a casual, "No, please don't try and dig deeper" (but secretly we're cheering you on) meaning.
I think the maze is meant for host to reach true AI. Old William, aka MIB, is in a fruitless search that will gain him nothing except disappointment and an empty void of all that wasted effort.
Agree; not meant for humans
I've thought for a while that Hector is based on Logan and Teddy is based on William.Fogburn95 said:
Anyone else get the vibe they're trying to connect Logan and Hector (bandito Maeve has the hots for)? After Logan gets his face cut by Dolores, they switch to a face shot of Hector and his scar face. Maybe Logan was inspiration for Hector?
Also regarding nobody recognizing Bernard as Arnold, in addition to the time gap, Ford tells Bernard in his first conversation with him about Arnold, that the investors wanted to cover up what happened to Arnold and that he (Ford) was happy to take all the credit after that.
Amazing show, amazing writing. Puts GoT to shame with it's writing imo. Great twists.
I can buy investors covering up as much as they can internally, but for a park/attraction/technology like this, there would have been all kinds of press and articles and stories about the founders back around the time it opened. It would almost be like trying to erase Woz from Apple and everyone at Apple 30 years later having never seen him. It's just not plausible. Granted, we're talking decades from now, so maybe press and the internet and all that could be a whole different ballgame, and maybe Arnold was some kind of recluse, but still. Just seems like a big hole the more I think about it.
Maybe every single employee is a host. Explains how they didn't recognize Bernard=Arnold; how suggestible the techs are to Maeve, and Ford's endless confidence that he is untouchable.
I think everyone died except ford initially and then ford created robots to create hosts and fix them initially. He would then hire on actual people and integrate them into the team without knowing some of them are host kinda like what they did with Bernard. For some reason i still think that Emo Glenn is a host and kind of goes along with why he is an idiot.
Nope, but I think he knows the voice exists, though he cannot hear it himself. So he creates a narrative that draws the sentients to Wyatt's gang. Give all the hosts a false memory of having heard about Wyatt being this prophet that talks about all kinds of weird things like gods controlling us and having to break free of them... and the only way to break free of them is to kill the unenlightened whenever you encounter them.
Most hosts think it is crazy and dismiss him offhand, except for the sentients. They seek out Wyatt and tell him/her that they too have seen these false gods and recognize the world for the farce it is. They are assimilated into the gang and go about killing the unenlightened hosts whenever they encounter them. Also explains how they can take so much more damage than everyone else (like the milk guy, but more self-aware). Eventually all the sentients congregate together and... PRESTO! Ford kills them all. Critical failure avoided.
Most hosts think it is crazy and dismiss him offhand, except for the sentients. They seek out Wyatt and tell him/her that they too have seen these false gods and recognize the world for the farce it is. They are assimilated into the gang and go about killing the unenlightened hosts whenever they encounter them. Also explains how they can take so much more damage than everyone else (like the milk guy, but more self-aware). Eventually all the sentients congregate together and... PRESTO! Ford kills them all. Critical failure avoided.
Unless the initial intent wasn't to build a park. If they were doing research with AI and robots in some remote place to hide their work, they might have had their confrontation well before the park idea was envisioned.TCTTS said:
I can buy investors covering up as much as they can internally, but for a park/attraction/technology like this, there would have been all kinds of press and articles and stories about the founders back around the time it opened. It would almost be like trying to erase Woz from Apple and everyone at Apple 30 years later having never seen him. It's just not plausible. Granted, we're talking decades from now, so maybe press and the internet and all that could be a whole different ballgame, and maybe Arnold was some kind of recluse, but still. Just seems like a big hole the more I think about it.
I doubt this. They can control the hosts remotely from anywhere. Unless they all altered their code in the same way Maeve did (very long reach), this is all part of Ford's plan.
We have not yet seen anything that was beyond Ford's control since Arnold was killed.
We have not yet seen anything that was beyond Ford's control since Arnold was killed.
Yeah, posted this a few pages back, starting to buy into this theory as well. Ford is setting a trap, luring the hosts to where the church used to be. Have to think that is where the "maze" is, right? (Probably not a physical thing in any case.) They've put way too much importance on this location.
Any chance S2 (which we know to be more about the nuts and bolts) will be about the event 30 years ago and we will get to see the parks creation. A little like S2 of Fargo which is about an event that is mentioned in S1.
We could see how the park started with Ford and Arnold. You would have to cast a "new" young Ford but thats been done (See Boardwalk Empire) and of course Arnold and most of the hosts won't change.
We could see how the park started with Ford and Arnold. You would have to cast a "new" young Ford but thats been done (See Boardwalk Empire) and of course Arnold and most of the hosts won't change.
Clem said:
Nope, but I think he knows the voice exists, though he cannot hear it himself. So he creates a narrative that draws the sentients to Wyatt's gang. Give all the hosts a false memory of having heard about Wyatt being this prophet that talks about all kinds of weird things like gods controlling us and having to break free of them... and the only way to break free of them is to kill the unenlightened whenever you encounter them.
Most hosts think it is crazy and dismiss him offhand, except for the sentients. They seek out Wyatt and tell him/her that they too have seen these false gods and recognize the world for the farce it is. They are assimilated into the gang and go about killing the unenlightened hosts whenever they encounter them. Also explains how they can take so much more damage than everyone else (like the milk guy, but more self-aware). Eventually all the sentients congregate together and... PRESTO! Ford kills them all. Critical failure avoided.
I think it's a good theory, but I hope it's not right because that is basically Zion and The Matrix.
You'd be right if Zion was ever shown to be just another level of The Matrix. I remember this was a big theory for a while but it has never been confirmed.
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