I don't think William is MIB, and I don't think people have the timeline right. There are subtle hints. William's interaction with Clementine, and Delores flashback to MiB. MiB has not been given a name for a reason...and his backstory is similar to Bernard's. Ford's comment about 'a journey of self discovery', I think, was big. Could MiB be....

Man, everyone worries way too much about people liking what they like or vice versa. I'd wager this is a solid show for a lot of people, as fleshed out by the rating for a pay cable show and the fact that it's already been greenlit for a 2nd season. It's beautifully shot and wonderfully acted for the most part, despite an overly convoluted story line that probably punishes the casual watcher. I have no doubt that if people could binge watch the entire season on Netflix, everyone everywhere would love it because you'd get to the answers quicker, but this one is not for those with TV-ADD

Don't dare mention any of the politics or sub-themes related to the show.

Ok, time to move this to the politics board

I'm really enjoying the show despite having pretty much no idea what's going on. It's flawed, but most things on tv are. It's hard to enjoy anything if you only accept masterpieces.

We have found a pocket of "americans" who haven't seen Clerks 2

TCTTS said:

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But it could be argued that humans are basically "wired" the same, albeit more complicated, and I was curious as to your - or anyone else's - thoughts on the matter.

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And herein lies the crux of this show, for me anyway. It is fascinating.

Feelings aren't what make you human. Animals feel. Dogs get happy. Dogs feel fear.

What defines humanity is choice. Choice to act counter to our instincts and/or our feelings.

I bring this up, bc the show has alluded to it. Bernard may appear more human like, but he is in fact, no more humam than the other hosts, maybe less so, bc everything he does and feels is by Ford's design.

The MiB also alludes to this several times. I think once or more when he's talking with Lawrence and other times when he's talking with Teddy.

The question de jeure is, has Maeve finally starting to have some element of choice, of free will, or, is she still unwittingly and unknowingly following a script given by someone (Ford?). At this time, I'm inclined to think that she is beginning to break free from the control of her programming. But the Maeve who saw her "daughter" "killed" was acting exactly as she had been programmed to do.

Anyway, I love this show. Its better than GoT to me. Though, the Maeve storyline was accelerated way too fast to me. This would have been better executed over a season or two. Have her slowly work up trust or a rapport with the techs. Give them reason to keep her around and hide their actions. Let them slowly get in too deep where they couldn't just say "hey, this unit is malfunctioning. It's woken up several times on us. It needs to be decommissioned or examined by behavior" and management wouldn't care and would probably respect them reporting a problem. It developing this fast would lead anyone to do just that; report it. Enough time hasn't passed where higher ups would wonder how these problems went unreported.

The Debt said:

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We have found a pocket of "americans" who haven't seen Clerks 2

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Now that you mention it, I went and found a clip of that scene. I had seen it but it's been awhile and it didn't even click when I read your post.

This may have already been discussed, but does the consensus expect a lot of the storylines to be wrapped up in the next two episodes or do y'all expect they keep most of them flowing into season 2?

Personally, I think they keep the Maeve storyline going and the board vs Ford storyline going while answering questions for the rest (MiB's identity, Stubbs' distrust of Bernard, William and Logan's conflict, whatever is going on with Dolores)

Maeve story needs to come to an end soon. I think the storylines need to be addressed by seasons end even though it's obvious

Yeah, I could see that one feeding into the conflict between Ford and the board or the Arnold storyline.

Theory on what the maze is, stolen from reddit.

It's a representation of the fragmentation of a host's mind. This is what they saw for Maeve last episode.



Also, just compare the following:

Yeah, that feels about right.

I've thought the maze was symbolic for a brain most of the time, but it still doesn't explain what it actually is.

Yeah, I guess the only remaining question is what it actually represents. The moment hosts reach "sentience"? Maybe the fragmentation of Arnold in the minds of all the hosts?

There's been so much going on the last few episodes that I don't even have a big grand unifying theory anymore. Just sort of hoping it all makes sense for the most part in the end.

Pretty sure I have it all figured out.... Dolores is Arnold.

Arnold decides to have a sex change when things go wrong. Ford is forced to save him the only way he knows how, program him and rebuild as a robot. He decides to throw a hitch in the programming (the maze) as a fail safe against Arnold's consciousnesses making a comeback. After perfecting his first host, he decides to build an entire theme park of them and profit from the creations.

Ought to be an action packed couple of episodes. There are still a few scenes from the early teasers that I haven't seen. I was waiting for the scene of Dolores holding a gun to her temple.

Still waiting to see Security guard getting attacked by the indian, Hector stabbing a female tech in the back, and snake girl throwing the tech through the glass.

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Anyone find it strange that it seems the bots have more "feelings" than the real humans? Maeve specifically said that the feelings she had for her daughter were all she had left, and at the same time MiB said he didn't feel anything when he killed her, and then Ford (guy is stone cold). The director is doing overtime trying to get us to humanize the bots more than the humans...

Quote:

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Maeve specifically said that the feelings she had for her daughter were all she had left

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Bernard said the same thing to his "wife" about his son.

Dolores said the same thing about her father in an interview with Bernard.

OldArmy71 said:

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Quote:

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Maeve specifically said that the feelings she had for her daughter were all she had left

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Bernard said the same thing to his "wife" about his son.

Dolores said the same thing about her father in an interview with Bernard.

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I take that to mean their dialogue was written by the same person. Ford or Arnold... your guess is as good as mine.

Yes, I think that's a good assumption.

Boggsie84 said:

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Anyone find it strange that it seems the bots have more "feelings" than the real humans? Maeve specifically said that the feelings she had for her daughter were all she had left, and at the same time MiB said he didn't feel anything when he killed her, and then Ford (guy is stone cold). The director is doing overtime trying to get us to humanize the bots more than the humans...

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zomg... you mean the robots are more human than human? now the white zombie song starts to make sense.

I think humans grow desensitized and calloused. Look at the two men, one guy has killed before and doesn't blink an eye. The other feels bad for the machines, but now that he's killed I think he is on a trajectory to be less feeling. Which will put him at odds with Delores.

I don't think the androids can get used to horrors, each time it's just input into their memory. There is no human need to reconcile or deny what they saw, but humans do those things. We have to.

I can't remember if anyone has mentioned if Delores killing all the dancers was the big thing (or part of the big thing) that happened 30 years earlier. I'm thinking it might be.

I'm fairly certain it is a part, but not the whole. I'm imagining that Arnold was killed as a result of the previous robot uprising, and Ford I'm sure had a part in it.

edit: nevermind

Isn't that the scene that Teddy flashes back to when remembering Wyatt? Is Dolores Wyatt?

WAIT WHAT?!?!

RossK10 said:

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Isn't that the scene that Teddy flashes back to when remembering Wyatt? Is Dolores Wyatt?

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RossK10 said:

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Isn't that the scene that Teddy flashes back to when remembering Wyatt? Is Dolores Wyatt?

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When I saw all the people dead I thought we were gonna see Wyatt. Surprised that we saw her there. Do we know if teddy is an older model yet?

****tttt