Also an interesting tidbit from last nights episode was Bernard saying that they didn't know how the hosts worked.
*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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amercer said:
Also an interesting tidbit from last nights episode was Bernard saying that they didn't know how the hosts worked.
I missed that somehow. Can you or somebody else give a little more detail on that. Like, who doesn't know how they work? Ford, or everybody but Ford?
He told Theresa that as they were getting on the elevator to Fords creepy cabin. The implication was that Arnold was the one that designed/understood the hosts mind. And that Arnold believed that after enough repetition of the loops (plus maybe some memory of past lives) that the hosts could gain self awareness
Possibly, but it seems unnecessary.
So, how do they make new hosts?amercer said:
He told Theresa that as they were getting on the elevator to Fords creepy cabin. The implication was that Arnold was the one that designed/understood the hosts mind. And that Arnold beloved that after enough repetition of the loops (plus maybe some memory of past lives) that the hosts could gain self awareness
Seem to remember saying half the code was Arnold's or something like that? Is that correct? So, I guess they just copy/paste that code and then code over the top of it.
That would explain how Arnold could still be messing with Ford from beyond the grave.
On board with pretty much all of this and yes, multiple timelines, not just two.
One thing that keeps standing out to me in reference to Ford being in complete control is that I'm not so sure he is. While he's one step ahead of everyone (sometimes more), he doesn't seem one step ahead of "Arnold" (and/or some of the hosts). Even though Arnold is dead, there are things happening with the hosts that he cannot control nor explain. He was genuinely puzzled by Mr. Abernathy in the first episode and in other scenes throughout the show as well: the scene with his younger host self, the one where he is interviewing Dolores, and the one that sticks out to me the most is from last week's episode when he sees the maze carved into that table. It is obvious that he did not put that there, and that he still doesn't fully understand the meaning as he goes back looking through Arnold's old notebook.
One thing that keeps standing out to me in reference to Ford being in complete control is that I'm not so sure he is. While he's one step ahead of everyone (sometimes more), he doesn't seem one step ahead of "Arnold" (and/or some of the hosts). Even though Arnold is dead, there are things happening with the hosts that he cannot control nor explain. He was genuinely puzzled by Mr. Abernathy in the first episode and in other scenes throughout the show as well: the scene with his younger host self, the one where he is interviewing Dolores, and the one that sticks out to me the most is from last week's episode when he sees the maze carved into that table. It is obvious that he did not put that there, and that he still doesn't fully understand the meaning as he goes back looking through Arnold's old notebook.
Bernard as a host, doesn't know he is a host but knows about hosts and is able to control and program other hosts. That's a fascinating internal dichotomy. I wonder if he is a test bed for host evolution. He clearly has the reveries about his wife and son.
Bernard must be totally off the grid though, since everyone working at the park has a tablet that can tap into hosts. And I wonder if he's mechanical or biological
Also I assumed the new host Ford was making in his secret lab was a new version of his younger self (it looked kid size to me)--and that he killed off his host family because he knew he didn't have control of them.
When talking about the two timeframes from the perspective of Delores, it's important to consider that she seems to often experience multiple timelines at once. She has past experiences intruding on/informing her present experiences.
Some examples:
- the gun in the drawer
- her escape from the house after killing her rapist
- encountering the girl at the well
- maybe the fortune teller, though that felt different somehow
Some examples:
- the gun in the drawer
- her escape from the house after killing her rapist
- encountering the girl at the well
- maybe the fortune teller, though that felt different somehow
I totally disagree with the bolded part. Their characters are written very closely on purpose. Check out the lines that William said in this episode and the MiB said in Episode 4.Vander said:
The William = MiB people are reading WAY too much into the storyline. If it ultimately proves true, then this is LOST levels of convolution that will leave significant plot holes in the storyline.
It still may ultimately turn out to be false, but I don't see how you can operate under the assumption that there is no way that they can be the same person.
There have been so many great lines in the show so far but this one by the MiB has been my favorite:
"This whole world is a story. I've read every page except the last one."
"This whole world is a story. I've read every page except the last one."
It's worth noting that it's possible William/MiB and Dolores have tried this whole thing before, potentially a lot. That each time the MiB comes back, he's trying to put all of these events in motion. So she could have experienced parts of this any number of times.AliasMan02 said:
When talking about the two timeframes from the perspective of Delores, it's important to consider that she seems to often experience multiple timelines at once. She has past experiences intruding on/informing her present experiences.
Some examples:
- the gun in the drawer
- her escape from the house after killing her rapist
- encountering the girl at the well
- maybe the fortune teller, though that felt different somehow
One thing that's all over Reddit that I don't see mentioned here is that now it makes sense why Bernard why was paying so much attention to every subtle emotional move that Theresa was making all season. Ford was basically using him to make a host version of Theresa.
I had given this some thought back in earlier episodes, particularly when the MiB had the shootout in the small town with Lawrence's family and cousins. He shoots that guy right in the head without being able to see him through that wooden wall or whatever. Made me think that he was playing out a "level" from a game and he knew right where all the enemies would be. However, it these scenes, he also makes reference to not realizing Lawrence had a family. So I don't necessarily think he's played these scenes out before. But it is an interesting concept to consider.
But wow, just reread the exchanges with Lawrence and MiB in those scenes from the second episode, and it's almost obvious that he is references his time with Lawrence 30 years ago as William. I will try to write out the dialogue later if I don't forget.
But wow, just reread the exchanges with Lawrence and MiB in those scenes from the second episode, and it's almost obvious that he is references his time with Lawrence 30 years ago as William. I will try to write out the dialogue later if I don't forget.
mathguy86 said:
Bernard as a host, doesn't know he is a host but knows about hosts and is able to control and program other hosts. That's a fascinating internal dichotomy. I wonder if he is a test bed for host evolution. He clearly has the reveries about his wife and son.
His wife and son would be his back story not reveries.
amercer said:
Also I assumed the new host Ford was making in his secret lab was a new version of his younger self (it looked kid size to me)--and that he killed off his host family because he knew he didn't have control of them.
I assumed he was making a copy of Theresa.
Speaking of Bernard's wife, who was the lady he was speaking to on the television at one point?
I'd have to go back and check the show, but is it possible if Bernard = Arnold that 1. Arnold really did have a son die; and 2. that when we see Bernard talking to his wife that is actually Arnold talking to his wife?
It always bothered me that they never really clarified if Bernard was still married and having an affair or if he was divorced from his wife, presumably from the grief his son's death caused.
I'd have to go back and check the show, but is it possible if Bernard = Arnold that 1. Arnold really did have a son die; and 2. that when we see Bernard talking to his wife that is actually Arnold talking to his wife?
It always bothered me that they never really clarified if Bernard was still married and having an affair or if he was divorced from his wife, presumably from the grief his son's death caused.
If it was Bernard then his wife and son would also be hosts and part of his backstory
It's also possible that there actually wasn't anything on the screen, that he was just seeing it because he was programmed to.LHIOB said:
If it was Bernard then his wife and son would also be hosts and part of his backstory
But was he wearing a tie?LHIOB said:
If it was Bernard then his wife and son would also be hosts and part of his backstory
3rdGen2015 said:It's also possible that there actually wasn't anything on the screen, that he was just seeing it because he was programmed to.LHIOB said:
If it was Bernard then his wife and son would also be hosts and part of his backstory
The last scene of the series will be the Young Ford waking up and realizing it was all a dream
I know this has been touched on, but I hadn't seen the gif posted yet...
[EDIT: looks like someone spliced together Bernard looking at the photo and Bernard looking at his design schema. Cleverly done to illustrate the point.]
Ford tells him it's a picture of Arnold. We assume that the man in the middle is Arnold because we hadn't met him yet. Going back, clearly someone (or something) is in that picture to the right that we can't see because we're looking through Bernard's POV. We now know that the man in the middle is Robodad. And we also know that Arnold built Robodad and Robofamily for Ford. Stands to reason then that the thing/person missing in that photo is Arnold, posing with robodad and Ford. Since knowing about Arnold doesn't create a dilemma for Bernard, but seeing himself does (i.e., the blue prints), then that pretty much cements for me that Bernard is an Arnold clone.
That also suggests to me that Bernard and Delores in the secret lab is from the earliest parts of this story, and we might have 3 timelines here as someone else here already mentioned. (1) Arnold meeting with Delores to put her into motion. (2) Delores acting out the first real iteration of her Arnold-infused "madness" with Billy. (3) Delores recalling her Arnold-infused madness as the result of the inclusion of the reveries in the MIB timeline.
[EDIT: looks like someone spliced together Bernard looking at the photo and Bernard looking at his design schema. Cleverly done to illustrate the point.]
Ford tells him it's a picture of Arnold. We assume that the man in the middle is Arnold because we hadn't met him yet. Going back, clearly someone (or something) is in that picture to the right that we can't see because we're looking through Bernard's POV. We now know that the man in the middle is Robodad. And we also know that Arnold built Robodad and Robofamily for Ford. Stands to reason then that the thing/person missing in that photo is Arnold, posing with robodad and Ford. Since knowing about Arnold doesn't create a dilemma for Bernard, but seeing himself does (i.e., the blue prints), then that pretty much cements for me that Bernard is an Arnold clone.
That also suggests to me that Bernard and Delores in the secret lab is from the earliest parts of this story, and we might have 3 timelines here as someone else here already mentioned. (1) Arnold meeting with Delores to put her into motion. (2) Delores acting out the first real iteration of her Arnold-infused "madness" with Billy. (3) Delores recalling her Arnold-infused madness as the result of the inclusion of the reveries in the MIB timeline.
Just FYI, Arnold is PRESUMED dead in the William/Delores timeline. Until we see a body, all bets are off (never mind even meeting him in the first place). And on this show, even a body isn't enough.
Seeing some reports saying season two likely isn't coming until 2018, just FYI...
Great news. This show has been so much fun.
Kind of sounds like the season one plot is supposed to be self-contained.
Makes me think we will see Dolores find the maze and that the maze is really just some kind of freedom from control for the hosts. Doubt they'd have a complete "Ford wins" ending if they wrote the show just for one season.
Makes me think we will see Dolores find the maze and that the maze is really just some kind of freedom from control for the hosts. Doubt they'd have a complete "Ford wins" ending if they wrote the show just for one season.
They're literally saying the opposite of that. Season two will apparently carry over much of season one's plot and characters.
bangobango said:
Kind of sounds like the season one plot is supposed to be self-contained.
Makes me think we will see Dolores find the maze and that the maze is really just some kind of freedom from control for the hosts. Doubt they'd have a complete "Ford wins" ending if they wrote the show just for one season.
Agree that season one will wrap the story in some sort of satisfying way, but leave a few teasers out for us to obsess over. I think we resolve:
1. Ford maintains control and continues his plan for a new narrative. Bernard is either with him or dies.
2. Delores is the central point of the coming William/Logan showdown and fails to meet her goal. Delores likely dies and gets reset.
3. Maeve escapes, or dies in the attempt.
4. MiB/Teddy/(maybe Delores) confront Wyatt which either ends the MiB's quest for this iteration or gives him a path forward.
Season 2 could have a lot of different faces.
Glad to hear its back and much like Fargo I'll be happy to wait so long as its done correctly and not rushed.
What are the boards thoughts on Hopkins and how long he will be around? He may be in it for the long haul and I hope he is. What an amazing scene last night.
What are the boards thoughts on Hopkins and how long he will be around? He may be in it for the long haul and I hope he is. What an amazing scene last night.
LHIOB said:
Glad to hear its back and much like Fargo I'll be happy to wait so long as its done correctly and not rushed.
What are the boards thoughts on Hopkins and how long he will be around? He may be in it for the long haul and I hope he is. What an amazing scene last night.
I assumed he'd die this season but now think he's a lock for season 2.
nm
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