MW03 said:

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Again, what was "infiltrating the mainland" if Maeve got of the train under orders and was still following her programming?

Someone:
- Gave her the ability to wake herself up
- Programmed her to recruit others
- Programmed her to try and escape
- Intended for her to make it to the mainland

That's not sentience. That's a host that's someone's personal project.

Also, why would Ford be orchestrating this if he was simultaneously developing a way for the hosts to gain consciousness via the "Delores Method" inside the park?

I'm starting to think someone else we haven't met yet was using Maeve, and it was only when she confronted her cornerstone suffering that she fully woke up and listened to her own voice telling her "It doesn't matter if it wasn't your child. You loved her. Go and get her."

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bangobango said:

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JJxvi said:

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You watched that whole season and didnt once notice that the first thing to happen at the start of a day in the Mariposa saloon was that the piano started playing? And the showrunners used that pretty much every time, that they had us (the audience) start over at the beginning of a loop (like dolores waking up, etc)?

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That's a far stretch to go from there to saying the music controlled the robots. Much more likely that was a cue for the audience to understand that a new loop was beginning.

Why would they have these expensive ass robots that can do all this other crap only operate when they heard music. They can program these things to do anything they want remotely, but you think the entire park is being controlled by the piano in Sweetwater?

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bobinator said:

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I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore? Why would Arnold write an entire narrative (which isn't his thing by the way, it's Ford that writes the narratives...) that ends with a murder of an entire town and his own death? What would be the point? Why would it be part of the "Wyatt narrative" before the park is even open, to be able to kill a human in the middle of the town square?

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JJxvi said:

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bangobango said:

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JJxvi said:

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You watched that whole season and didnt once notice that the first thing to happen at the start of a day in the Mariposa saloon was that the piano started playing? And the showrunners used that pretty much every time, that they had us (the audience) start over at the beginning of a loop (like dolores waking up, etc)?

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That's a far stretch to go from there to saying the music controlled the robots. Much more likely that was a cue for the audience to understand that a new loop was beginning.

Why would they have these expensive ass robots that can do all this other crap only operate when they heard music. They can program these things to do anything they want remotely, but you think the entire park is being controlled by the piano in Sweetwater?

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The logical leaps you make are astounding. Its an obvious cue for the hosts to "begin" used repeatedly at least in that one area of the park. I don't think its very clear at all that they can "do anything they want remotely." In fact thats one of the grey areas I have issues with. They clearly cant control the hosts from long range, they have to actually go there repeatedly. (But yet they can see everything and even control pyrtotechnic effects, and such at range which is odd).

Once again, you've taken a very simple logical deduction, that they use music as cues for the host, and blow it into an argument where youve accused me of thinking "the piano in sweetwater controls everything!"

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JJxvi said:

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Arnold killed himself because he thought he was so important, that the park couldn't exist without him. He basically underestimated Ford's abilities.

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A while back you had a mini-debate during our interview about whether viewers would know the park's location by the end of the season. Jonathan, you thought we would; Lisa, you said, no, we won't. We had that rather big hint of Maeve heading out to the "mainland," a word used in context to refer to an island. And also and this is just rather embarrassing to admit but I just realized this morning that there's a real Greek island named Delos, although it's too small of one to contain a land the size of the park. Should we just assume the park is on an island at this point, given what you've told us?

NOLAN: The key is to never disagree with Lisa. Always bet on Lisa being right.

JOY: I think part of the fun of figuring out where they are is something that we're going to it'll be fun.

NOLAN: We don't want to create the world's largest mystery around it because we have equally interesting, or more interesting, character questions to ask. But I think the rule we've built from the beginning whether it's frustrating for the audience or not; hopefully it's not is you really only know as much as the host's know. Our worldview is limited to theirs. They don't know where they are yet. We tried teasing that in the finale, but it doesn't seem fair that the audience would know if they don't.


Speaking of teasing, I love the glimpse at Samurai World. Or perhaps it's Shogun World or Sensei World? Anything you can tell us about this glimpse into the other park. We also got the other hint of "Park 1" being written the note telling Maeve her daughter's location.

JOY: We're definitely teasing there are other worlds. How many other worlds and what is the nature of the other worlds is something we'll start to explore more in season 2. But it was definitely fun filming those samurai [scenes].

NOLAN: It was awesome. Something we're constantly asked is, "Is there a Roman World and Medieval World?" We couldn't say "no," because we wanted to go in a slightly different direction. This samurai-shogun world, for us, has a very specific relation to the Western. Some of my favorite movies are the Sergio Leone adaptations of the Akira Kurosawa samurai films: The Seven Samuraiand The Magnificent Seven. In the period when the Western was the biggest genre in the world, the interplay between Westerns and samurai films in the domestic market in Japan was really cool. On that meta level, those two genres have this almost incestuous relationship with each other. We just couldn't resist.

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Do you have a tease for season 2 you're willing to make at this point?

NOLAN: No [laughs].

JOY: I'm trying to think!

NOLAN: We talked about the idea that the first season has been the hosts expanding understanding of the situation they're in. There is an awful lot left to explore.

JOY: I think part of it is we've looked at the hosts trying to become aware of the reality of their situation and who they are. To hear their own voices. That's where we've gotten to at the end of this season. Now the thing we get to explore is once they've heard their own voices and once they've embraced who they are, what choices will they make? It speaks to a thing of how identity constantly evolves. They were steeped and raised in violence. These violent delights did indeed have violent ends at the end of the season. And I think we're going to see how that pendulum swings going forward.

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This first season, there were so many intricately plotted mysteries that led to so many explanations and revelations at the end. Now that this group of characters and park history has been established, do you anticipate the second season to be somewhat less mystery driven in terms of the number of questions you raise and then have to explain along the way? Or will season 2 be every bit as much a puzzle box as season 1?

NOLAN: The puzzle of it all was never the focus for us. We had a unique opportunity here with a set of protagonist hosts whose situation is unique. They don't age the way we do. They're not really equipped to understand the distinction between their memories and the present tense. The show is not about people, it's about these creatures whose cognition and understanding the world around them is markedly different from ours. And it suggested a form of storytelling that hopefully in a pleasurable way allowed the audience to find themselves in at the deep end in our story. As every season moves forward, the audience hopefully has more of a connection to our hosts and how they understand the world. We take that mechanism which, in the first season, caused Dolores in particular so much hurt and betrayal to realize she's been conflating the one person who represented a glimmer of hope for her with her worst enemy, and all the emotional wreckage of that. Then we'll take a character who can explore her past and future with that level of understanding and continue to explore how that storytelling works. Not with an eye toward a puzzle, but with an eye toward hopefully delighting the audience. It's not for everyone, but this is the sort of stuff Lisa and I love. We want to continue to grow our ambition in terms of how this form of storytelling works.

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bobinator said:

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Yes, all of that is true. But along with that:

He knew that Ford would try to rebuild. He even says Ford can rebuild everything except for him. (Which he ended up being wrong about anyway.) So, knowing that Ford would try to rebuild and still open the park, it makes sense that he would want Dolores' ability to kill humans to be temporary, and not a permanent part of her code.

So a good way to do that is with a musical cue that makes her do something and overrides her core code.

Remember that when the music is playing and he sits down, Dolores asks permission to begin, before she kills him. That doesn't sound like something "Wyatt" would do.

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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I'm just going to number it.

1) I don't think he thought that Ford could create consciousness like he did with Delores without him.
2) Rebuilding without conscious hosts makes them little more than puppets, not how he saw them as alive when he died. I think Arnold would consider this as acceptable as they wouldn't be functional living creatures like he saw Dolores in the finale before his death.
3) Hence the cue as part of the narrative with the music. That narrative was obviously still there after all this time. Tough to say that the alteration that allowed it wasn't permanent after the fact.

So you're on board with it being a cue to disable a safety protocol now? Awesome, so you agree with me.

Wyatt isn't a person, it's a narrative. I've been my best to make sure to delineate between the two and not conflate the issue. That's still Dolores, just with a different script. That's why there's pretty big change in mannerisms when you saw the Wood go between the Wyatt narrative and her Dolores narrative, and what we're effectively left with now is a blending between the two now assuming she's awakened.

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Wyatt killed Arnold as part of that narrative. Arnold gave Dolores the Wyatt narrative, Wyatt slaughtered the hosts, shot Teddy "Kill Me Again Darlin" Flood, killed Arnold, and then shot herself. To be able to do that, part of the code had to be overwritten by Arnold to allow her to do that. This is also why I'm not entirely sold on Dolores being awakened, rather that it was a manipulation by Ford bringing that old code from the Wyatt narrative forward that allowed him to be shot by Dolores/Wyatt in the finale.

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bobinator said:

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"A cue to disable a safety protocol" is an override of the safety protocol. That's literally what I've been saying the entire time. That the song was essentially a command function that overrides her normal core codes.

My point on the Wyatt business was simply that her being mixed with Wyatt had nothing to do with her ability to kill Arnold, it was all the music override.

That's what I've been saying. You literally said:

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Wyatt killed Arnold as part of that narrative. Arnold gave Dolores the Wyatt narrative, Wyatt slaughtered the hosts, shot Teddy "Kill Me Again Darlin" Flood, killed Arnold, and then shot herself. To be able to do that, part of the code had to be overwritten by Arnold to allow her to do that. This is also why I'm not entirely sold on Dolores being awakened, rather that it was a manipulation by Ford bringing that old code from the Wyatt narrative forward that allowed him to be shot by Dolores/Wyatt in the finale.

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bobinator said:

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I already explained that... https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2783010/replies/48008698

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He then used the musical cue to have her override her core code and kill him and herself.

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bobinator said:

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Here is literally what I said

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He then used the musical cue to have her override her core code and kill him and herself.

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Whatever other series of words you want to put together is fine, the end result is the same. The music allowed her to override the core part of her code that doesn't allow her to hurt humans.

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He would also do it as an "override" and not in her code so that if Ford tried to bring her back she wouldn't still be able to kill humans.

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I think part of it is we've looked at the hosts trying to become aware of the reality of their situation and who they are. To hear their own voices. That's where we've gotten to at the end of this season. Now the thing we get to explore is once they've heard their own voices and once they've embraced who they are, what choices will they make?

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dromo07 said:

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not sure about that one. Would have also put a damper on the early notion of a multiple timeline theory

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bobinator said:

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No doubt, plus we've effectively wasted an entire Monday. Good job everyone.

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In a recent interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Nolan confirmed that Westworld won't be back until at least 2018:

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Definitely not coming back until 2018. Look, we said to the network very early that this was a different kind of show, having gone through the experience of making the pilot. Game of Thrones is incredibly ambitious, and that was part of the reason we knew we wanted to make this show with HBO. Game of Thrones kind of has written the book on production value for television, and how to make something that has all the scope and scale of cinema for a TV show. They also have an advantage of having [George R.R. Martin's] amazing books, or had it for the first six seasons, which gives you a leg up. I still don't know how they turn those seasons around in a year. It's astonishing. But we knew for ourselves that going forward, the production is enormously challenging and ambitious, and so is the writing. So we said very early on that we wouldn't be able to turn this around every year, and knowing full well that that's been a time-honored tradition in television. But in film, my other life, on the Batman movies, the best we could do is turn another one around in three years. I really feel like we're splitting the difference here.

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