*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***

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lne2011
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In reply to Joseph Parrish • 1:31p, 11/28/16
AG
Joseph Parrish said:
MW03 said:
Joseph Parrish said:
How does nobody else that works there not recognize that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?!
I was wondering that, too. Maybe Ford had everyone who knew Arnold killed after the Delores incident to protect the park. If memory serves, the working story is that Arnold died in an accident, and you would think that place would be DOA if one of the hosts had gone off the rails and murdered a person. There were a lot of people working robot cotillion in addition to Ford, so something had to be done with those people. Maybe they were the ones dead under the church in Delores' flashback. Either way, Ford had invested 3+ years into the place at that point, so it's unlikely that he would have just washed his hands of it after Arnold's murder.


If they all died, maybe he made an army of robots to replace the people working there and just don't know they are robots. I just don't see how else nobody would notice the resemblance and not speak up.
When Bernard first came on line it was a somewhat older looking Ford. So, we can assume that some number of years went by from Arnold's death to Ford creating Bernard. During this time, anyone that knew of Arnold left the company and by the time he created Bernard, they were all gone.

That is my guess.
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redline248
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In reply to Raptor • 1:51p, 11/28/16
AG
Raptor said:
The line "the maze is not meant for you" has to have a deeper meaning other than a casual, "No, please don't try and dig deeper" (but secretly we're cheering you on) meaning.

I think the maze is meant for host to reach true AI. Old William, aka MIB, is in a fruitless search that will gain him nothing except disappointment and an empty void of all that wasted effort.


It's possible MiB's goal is to help them achieve true consciousness. If he's really William, maybe he wants Dolores to finish her Pinocchio routine so he can take her out into the real world.
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MrPlow2010
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In reply to spanky • 2:10p, 11/28/16
AG
The hosts wore clothes when Bernard talked to them. I remember Ford getting onto Bernard for allowing them wear clothes because he said they shouldn't because they weren't humans and were just hosts.
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bobinator
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2:10p, 11/28/16
AG
Am I the only one that isn't sure that William is the MiB? I've been a long time supporter of this theory, but some of the dialogue last night is making me question it.
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bangobango
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In reply to bobinator • 2:14p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
Am I the only one that isn't sure that William is the MiB? I've been a long time supporter of this theory, but some of the dialogue last night is making me question it.
I could see some set-up coming with that.
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LHIOB
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In reply to bobinator • 2:24p, 11/28/16
AG
I agree

I feel like William is a red herring. After Delores cut Logan last night I was hoping we see a scar on MiBs face.
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MW03
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2:25p, 11/28/16
AG
You know, if the maze really is a path to sentience for the hosts, then it makes sense that the danger to the MiB is increased the closer he gets, especially if they are disregarding their prime directive not to hurt humans as they become "real."
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Lt. Joe Bookman
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In reply to bobinator • 2:27p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
Am I the only one that isn't sure that William is the MiB? I've been a long time supporter of this theory, but some of the dialogue last night is making me question it.

The look on Delores' face when he walked through the doors led me to believe that it isn't William.
But pretty much all other signs point to it being William and if it's not then they used deliberately misleading tactics to make the viewer think that it was.
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bobinator
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2:29p, 11/28/16
AG
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
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bobinator
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2:32p, 11/28/16
AG
The MiB being Logan makes more sense. He thinks William has lost it in thinking Dolores is alive. Whatever happens between those two happens and one of them is buried in the desert. (William has the photo Abernathy finds in his pocket now, so perhaps it's him that's killed and buried.)

I dunno, just typing out the pieces that have been bothering me.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to bobinator • 2:32p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
That's the same exact thing that's holding me back on it. It just seems like an odd choice of words if William is the MiB.

But on the other hand, would Logan be able to make the connection about the church city buried in sand? Because it has to be one of the two, right?
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Breggy Popup
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In reply to bobinator • 4:03p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?


He may have not reached the point of thinking Dolores was truly alive but wants to help her get there.

My guess on Dolores' reaction when he walks in is she remembers William as William 30-odd years ago woth nothing between then and the MiB persona.
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BowSowy
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In reply to bobinator • 4:12p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
I am thinking this as well. We also see MiB kill Dolores in the first or second episode. William "turns" because of how much he cares for Dolores, so why would MiB want to kill her? Maybe there's some undisclosed event that happens between them, but it just seems so out of character for William.
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Breggy Popup
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In reply to BowSowy • 4:22p, 11/28/16
AG
RossK10 said:
bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
I am thinking this as well. We also see MiB kill Dolores in the first or second episode. William "turns" because of how much he cares for Dolores, so why would MiB want to kill her? Maybe there's some undisclosed event that happens between them, but it just seems so out of character for William.


When did we see MiB kill Dolores? He dragged her to the barn but we never saw anything.
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bobinator
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In reply to BowSowy • 4:23p, 11/28/16
AG
He killed her? I talked about this earlier in this thread, but I think whatever he did to her in the barn is what set her on this loop in the current timeline.

And it's pretty clear that he thinks Dolores is alive, he asked Logan to help find a way to get her out of the park.
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Complete Idiot
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In reply to BowSowy • 4:23p, 11/28/16
RossK10 said:

but it just seems so out of character for William.
I'd agree, at least prior to last night's episode. Prior to last night William did not care for anyone hurting, much less killing, the hosts. But then he killed and dismembered what looked to be dozens of hosts after Logan made him snap.
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bobinator
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4:25p, 11/28/16
AG
I don't think he snapped, I think he dismembered them all so they couldn't step in when he held the knife to Logan. He already knows that the hosts will try and keep him from hurting a guest, so he had to get rid of all the hosts nearby.
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The White Wolf
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In reply to bobinator • 4:29p, 11/28/16
bobinator said:
Am I the only one that isn't sure that William is the MiB? I've been a long time supporter of this theory, but some of the dialogue last night is making me question it.
At this point it has to be him or Logan. I, too, have been a long time supporter of it being William and then began to have my doubts. From about episodes 4-6, I was beginning to think it had a decent shot of being Logan, but I still hold that William would make the most sense. What dialogue lead you to think otherwise though?

The way the MiB interacts with Dolores is what had made me think it potentially wouldn't be William (as we see him falling for her). But I think we're going to see it explained how their relationship changed in the finale. With it being 90 minutes, and them already meeting in the church in last night's episode, we are going to get a nice long look into their past as I'm sure Dolores will then realize that the MiB is indeed him.
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bobinator
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4:33p, 11/28/16
AG
Well I posted the dialogue a few posts back.

And I know it seems like it should be William. I was all in back like in episode 3 or 4 or whenever it was that he was going to fall for Dolores, then see Dolores get killed/wiped and not remember him and that would disillusion him to the hosts as having human characteristics. In fact i think I was one of the first people on this thread to jump in that wagon.

But that bit about Maeve being alive really threw me, as did the conversation he had with Logan.
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Independent George
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4:37p, 11/28/16
AG
We need a list of all these sentient hosts. Seems like they were all from the sand buried town when Arnold created them. Some are definitely further along. The blonde haired one that killed Teddy and Maeve. While some are not, the snake tattoo broad.
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The White Wolf
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4:40p, 11/28/16
gotcha on the quote, that post was delayed and was just now sent for some reason. That is real interesting to think about. But yes, from the way the MiB has dealt with Dolores from the beginning, there has to be a lot of explaining for it to be him.
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BowSowy
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In reply to Breggy Popup • 5:04p, 11/28/16
AG
I may have gotten things mixed up. He drags her and then, in another loop, she is shot by a host in that same setting. Right?
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Breggy Popup
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In reply to BowSowy • 5:08p, 11/28/16
AG
RossK10 said:
I may have gotten things mixed up. He drags her and then, in another loop, she is shot by a host in that same setting. Right?


Correct.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to Breggy Popup • 5:14p, 11/28/16
AG
dlance said:
RossK10 said:
I may have gotten things mixed up. He drags her and then, in another loop, she is shot by a host in that same setting. Right?


Correct.
No, she shoots the Milk Bandit's partner in the barn. She doesn't get shot.
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MW03
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5:34p, 11/28/16
AG
Anyone feel like spending 2 minutes talking about Teddy and his death this iteration. Specifically, what is the implication of him being stabbed and the comment that he's not ready, but maybe in the next life?
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Breggy Popup
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In reply to 3rdGen2015 • 5:35p, 11/28/16
AG
3rdGen2015 said:
dlance said:
RossK10 said:
I may have gotten things mixed up. He drags her and then, in another loop, she is shot by a host in that same setting. Right?


Correct.
No, she shoots the Milk Bandit's partner in the barn. She doesn't get shot.


She has a flashback of getting shot by one of them in that same location.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to Breggy Popup • 5:38p, 11/28/16
AG
dlance said:
3rdGen2015 said:
dlance said:
RossK10 said:
I may have gotten things mixed up. He drags her and then, in another loop, she is shot by a host in that same setting. Right?


Correct.
No, she shoots the Milk Bandit's partner in the barn. She doesn't get shot.


She has a flashback of getting shot by one of them in that same location.
Oh, you're totally right. I forgot about that.
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Breggy Popup
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In reply to MW03 • 5:43p, 11/28/16
AG
MW03 said:
Anyone feel like spending 2 minutes talking about Teddy and his death this iteration. Specifically, what is the implication of him being stabbed and the comment that he's not ready, but maybe in the next life?


Maybe he is being sent back to be recruited by Maeve? I have no idea what is going on with that group.
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bangobango
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In reply to BowSowy • 6:11p, 11/28/16
AG
RossK10 said:
bobinator said:
The main thing tugging at me is at the end of episode 8 he talks about how when he kills Maeve and her daughter on a trip, he says he saw something he's never seen in the park before: "In all my years coming here, I'd never seen anything like it. She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment. And that's when the maze revealed itself to me."

If he's William, then either he's lying or that's not true, because William seems sure that Dolores is alive right?
I am thinking this as well. We also see MiB kill Dolores in the first or second episode. William "turns" because of how much he cares for Dolores, so why would MiB want to kill her? Maybe there's some undisclosed event that happens between them, but it just seems so out of character for William.
Couple of theories:

1. She's the first step to the maze. We see MIB with Dolores, then the next day he scalps the card player in the bar. Maybe he got the tip about the card player from Dolores?

2. He's trying to "reactivate" her and get her searching for the maze again.

I agree that there are some strange dialogue sequences last couple of episodes that seem to cast doubt on MIB = William. For me, the story MIB tells about his wife didn't line up with the mental image I had of his fiance from Logan describing her.

Then William dismembering all the hosts makes it seem like he stops thinking of them as real, but then he is still searching out Dolores. Who knows? There is going to be some confrontation between William, Logan, and Dolores and I imagine one of them will be revealed as the MIB. I supposed it could be Logan, in which case we will, ironically enough, see the MIB as an improvement on what Logan was at the beginning of this story. More contemplative and maybe even more caring.
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Rocagnante
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In reply to bobinator • 6:14p, 11/28/16
AG
bobinator said:
I don't think he snapped, I think he dismembered them all so they couldn't step in when he held the knife to Logan. He already knows that the hosts will try and keep him from hurting a guest, so he had to get rid of all the hosts nearby.


Good point. I hadn't thought about it that way but it makes sense. Also shows he can be cold and methodical like MIB to achieve his ends.
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Rocagnante
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6:19p, 11/28/16
AG
Anyone else get the vibe they're trying to connect Logan and Hector (bandito Maeve has the hots for)? After Logan gets his face cut by Dolores, they switch to a face shot of Hector and his scar face. Maybe Logan was inspiration for Hector?
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Complete Idiot
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6:26p, 11/28/16
It seems like there was a lot to unpack in some of the historical images from Bernard memory, were those real memories/occurrences or just what Ford wanted him to see? What he said to his son after awakening him, Theresa freezing in bed, etc. Not sure what to make of all that.

Logan being mentioned as the MIB seems ridiculous to me, completely difference personalities, body language, even their heights seem vastly different. William carries himself like the MIB, so it at least seems possible they are the same person or that the show is intentionally trying to indicate it's the same person as a diversion.
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Deadwood
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7:38p, 11/28/16
AG
I haven't read the whole thread or any reddit or anything, but if William is MIB, could Logan be Wyatt?
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duck79
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7:51p, 11/28/16
AG
I thought it was inferred that Dolores is Wyatt???
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bobinator
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7:57p, 11/28/16
AG
Yeah at this point it seems pretty clear that Dolores is "Wyatt"
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