*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***

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NoHo Hank
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12:22p, 10/25/16
AG
The kicker for me is the robots - the old bartender was an outdated robot that was clearly not real. One of the themes of the show is that as the robots are advancing, you can no longer differentiate them from humans - is that a good thing / what we really want?

William is clearly struggling with that right now. He's pissed about his buddy offing the sheriff, which leads to the whole they're just robots discussion. From what we've seen, they wouldn't be having that discussion if they were set 30 years behind the "current" generation of robots. It is only in the present, the reveries, etc. that bring about the path to robot enlightenment as it were, which at this time seems tied to Dolores' interactions with William.

As such, I think the MiB and Dolores are set in the same time frame and they're just different logos.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to NoHo Hank • 12:24p, 10/25/16
AG
Except in the Ford flashback scene, you see Peter Abernathy.
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AliasMan02
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In reply to 3rdGen2015 • 12:29p, 10/25/16
AG
3rdGen2015 said:
Except in the Ford flashback scene, you see Peter Abernathy.


That's just the same likeness on a previous version/model.
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JJxvi
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12:33p, 10/25/16
AG
No it's been stated that they last at least that long, Dolores specifically known to be 30+ years. Abernathy himself they said had played the role of a cannibalistic cult leader that had knowledge of shakespeare (hmmm) years ago.
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bangobango
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In reply to JJxvi • 12:48p, 10/25/16
AG
JJxvi said:
No it's been stated that they last at least that long, Dolores specifically known to be 30+ years. Abernathy himself they said had played the role of a cannibalistic cult leader that had knowledge of shakespeare (hmmm) years ago.


Don't remember them saying Dolores was 30+ years old. Security guy said she's the oldest in the park, that doesn't necessarily mean she's as old as the bar tender in Sub-level 83 who is no longer in the park.

He does make the comment that she's been repaired so many times she's practically brand new, so it wouldn't surprise me of we find out she used to be automated like the old bartender, but just based on what security guard said, she could be less than thirty years old if all the current robots in the park are younger.

Unless there was another comment that I'm forgetting? Still need to rewatch episodes two and three. Wasn't fully invested first time I saw them and probably missed a lot.
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to bangobango • 1:03p, 10/25/16
AG
They commented that she's the oldest host in the park, but that you would never know it because of her having so many pieces replaced over time.

This was mentioned in the first episode I think.
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bangobango
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In reply to jabberwalkie09 • 1:10p, 10/25/16
AG
jabberwalkie09 said:
They commented that she's the oldest host in the park, but that you would never know it because of her having so many pieces replaced over time.

This was mentioned in the first episode I think.


Yes, that's what I just said, but does that include all the robots in cold storage? I don't think it necessarily does.
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amercer
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1:17p, 10/25/16
AG
Is it possible that Westworld is version 2.0 of the park? So robot bartender could be from the old park and Delores the first of the new models for the new park?

I guess the did have three years before the park opened, so maybe they went through a couple versions before guests arrived.
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JJxvi
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1:17p, 10/25/16
AG

Quote:
"Is that any way to treat an old friend? I've been coming here for 30 years, but you still don't remember me, do you? After all we've been through. They gave you a little more pluck, Dolores. Absolutely charming"
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AliasMan02
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1:19p, 10/25/16
AG
Delores is the oldest host in the park. She's not as old AS the park.
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to bangobango • 1:21p, 10/25/16
AG
This is what Evan Rachel Wood said in an interview.

Quote:
Your character, Dolores, is the oldest host in the park. Does that have a lot of significance?

Evan Rachel Wood: I would say so, absolutely. On the surface and in character [Dolores] is a very pure, innocent prairie girl and is sort of a Disney princess. But if you really think about what that means, if she's the oldest host in the park, she quite possibly could be the most advanced [host] and have the most history. We don't know what's happened to her in those 30 years. What different lives she's led, how many people she's fallen in love with, that she can even remember. Her memory is wiped every day.
There are endless possibilities, even with her creators. If Anthony [Hopkins] is the mad genius behind all this, then they've had a relationship for at least 30 years. I'm curious to watch the show and see how all that unfolds.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-evan-rachel-wood-westworld-20161003-snap-story.html

I take in the park, to literally mean in the park. Though, it's just as likely the writers wanted it to mean that she is the oldest of them all. The last incident was something like 30 years ago from what they said, and tmib says he's been coming to the park for 30 years when he sees her in the first episode. There is enough there to suggest that she's at least 30 years old.
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to amercer • 1:22p, 10/25/16
AG
amercer said:
Is it possible that Westworld is version 2.0 of the park? So robot bartender could be from the old park and Delores the first of the new models for the new park?

I guess the did have three years before the park opened, so maybe they went through a couple versions before guests arrived.
So we're going back to my "this isn't so much a reboot, so much as a continuation of the original story" theory from a few pages ago?

I'm on board.
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Greeze06
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1:50p, 10/25/16
AG
All the same timeline. You're welcome.

Did nobody else not notice Logan swap guns with a dead host and say "oh an upgrade". There is probably something to that.
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bobinator
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1:53p, 10/25/16
AG
I think it showed that Logan is an idiot and he's basically "playing the game" like everyone on here played Goldeneye. He doesn't care for the subtleties and the backstory. Actually FWIW if we were taking bets I'd have money that he's getting killed in the park before the season is out.
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spanky
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1:54p, 10/25/16
AG
...or he couldn't afford the package that had that upgrade
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amercer
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In reply to spanky • 1:58p, 10/25/16
AG
Which would be odd since his family owns part of the company
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ja86
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In reply to bobinator • 1:59p, 10/25/16
AG
bobinator said:
I think it showed that Logan is an idiot and he's basically "playing the game" like everyone on here played Goldeneye. He doesn't care for the subtleties and the backstory. Actually FWIW if we were taking bets I'd have money that he's getting killed in the park before the season is out.
I agree. He is playing it like a live FPS and doing what we all do, looting bodies for the next best thing.
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spanky
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In reply to amercer • 2:06p, 10/25/16
AG
amercer said:
Which would be odd since his family owns part of the company
Just like I own Google and Apple shares maybe...who knows
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MW03
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2:13p, 10/25/16
AG
yeah, he's not surviving the season
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bangobango
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In reply to JJxvi • 2:46p, 10/25/16
AG
JJxvi said:

Quote:
"Is that any way to treat an old friend? I've been coming here for 30 years, but you still don't remember me, do you? After all we've been through. They gave you a little more pluck, Dolores. Absolutely charming"


Ah yes. Totally forgot about that.
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BR0
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In reply to bobinator • 8:17p, 10/25/16
bobinator said:
I think it showed that Logan is an idiot and he's basically "playing the game" like everyone on here played Goldeneye. He doesn't care for the subtleties and the backstory. Actually FWIW if we were taking bets I'd have money that he's getting killed in the park before the season is out.


What a bold, daring bet.

Logan's character only exists in this show to eventually die, and I think that's obvious to pretty much everybody.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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8:38p, 10/25/16
AG
Yeah, that would be the obvious choice. But what if they subvert the trope and kill off William, and Logan becomes a series regular?
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 8:41p, 10/25/16
AG
In a world made of milk, McPoyle never dies
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Casey TableTennis
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9:36p, 10/25/16
AG
Here is a belated theory on the gun in the hay... Delores gets raped there one night, with the gun ending up in the hay. Either the characters reset afterwards and/or the hazmats do so for them. In the aftermath, the gun is left in that spot on accident. The next time (or some future time at least) the storyline is triggered, Delores is in the hay, happens upon the gun, and Bang.

FWIW, I think Delores put it there, but this seems to be a simple answer too.
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bangobango
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10:24p, 10/25/16
AG
Random thoughts rewatching episode two:

1. MIB doesn't have a mole like William.

2. Maeve has flashback to getting scalped as a homesteader.

3. When they're keeping Maeve from being decommissioned she says "you're going to wake in three, two, one" then we cut to Maeve having a conversation with a visitor.

4. Maeve has a nightmare of the MIB coming to kill her in her previous iteration as a homesteader. Does her countdown from three and wakes up on operating table.

5. When Dolores goes to dig up the gun, she says "Here." Who is she talking to?

6. William rides in on train at beginning of episode. It clearly appears to be underground when he gets off train and is met by his first host, who takes him to the changing room. When he enters the park he walks into a bar type room. His Brother in law comes in a few moments later. Room shakes a bit then flash of white light and they are on train in the wide open air. There does not appear to be any kind of elevator ride up or down. They go from deep underground to the wide open sky in a matter of seconds.
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amercer
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11:20p, 10/25/16
AG
The headquarters "building" is inside a huge mesa. Looking at the map, guests arrive pretty far under the top of the Mesa, so it makes sense that the train into the park would start underground and then pop out into a valley.
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bangobango
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11:36p, 10/25/16
AG
Random notes and thoughts rewatching episode three:

1. Dolores finds gun in dresser. Wraps I back up and puts it away. Looks at self in mirror and you hear, I think Bernard, say "Do you remember?" Flashes to her in hayloft with MIB. He pulls out knife and says "let's reacquaint ourselves Dolores, start at the beginning." She comes back to and the gun is gone. Been other moments of the "Do you remember" voice then a jump in time for Dolores.

Random thought - MIB started maze quest after taking Dolores in episode one. Was she the first clue to the maze?

2. Video of Walter carrying on a conversation with "Arnold" after killing all the hosts in episode one.

3. Bernard makes comment about Host "Get our friend here back upstairs."

4. Bernard's conversation with wife very similar to Dolores's conversation with Bernard in episode four

5. Still dont understand gun in hayloft, but after Dolores comes out of hayloft there is a guy who sees her, says "Hey, get back!" And shoots her in the stomach. She reaches down, gets blood on fingers, and then it loops again and this time when tbe guy says "Hey, get back here," she runs and gets on horse and rides away.

6. Voice tells Dolores to "kill him" before shooting rapist.

Wyatt cult is way overpowers. Even the guest was scared ****less and ineffective in fighting them.
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bangobango
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In reply to amercer • 11:42p, 10/25/16
AG
amercer said:
The headquarters "building" is inside a huge mesa. Looking at the map, guests arrive pretty far under the top of the Mesa, so it makes sense that the train into the park would start underground and then pop out into a valley.


So again, how do you go from room to a fast moving train?
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amercer
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11:49p, 10/25/16
AG
I'd have to rewatch it carefully, but elevator onto train seems like the best explanation. It was a cool visual effect, so the producers may have just said "**** it do the shot"

JJ has displayed a lack of concern for physics in his movies as well.
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bobinator
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8:22a, 10/26/16
AG
I don't really understand everyone's fascination with the train. That seems pretty simple to me. The car is on an elevator platform picking up folks as they come out of the changing rooms, when it hits the top floor they connect it to an engine and off they go. Of all the things to disect in this show, that one seems pretty straightforward.
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3rdGen2015
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10:19a, 10/26/16
AG
There is a theory picking up some steam on Reddit that all of the conversations between Dolores and Bernard are taking place in Dolores' head. Thoughts?

Why I think it could be true:
  • would eliminate the breaking guests' immersion issues
  • could explain why it is the same room every time
  • could explain why she is hearing voices in her head at other times
  • she says that she is in a dream at one point during one of these interviews

Why I think it could be false:
  • Bernard isn't dressed in modern clothes during these, he's dressed in period clothing
  • he brings her the physical book
  • "you better get back before someone misses you"
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bobinator
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10:45a, 10/26/16
AG
I assume they're real conversations, but are happening at a different time from what we're seeing in the story.

Almost like something went horribly awry, and we're seeing a debrief of Dolores afterward as they try to piece together the events.
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TCTTS
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In reply to bobinator • 2:01p, 10/26/16
AG
This. Episode 3 ended with Delores finding her way to William and Logan at night. Episode 4 began with Delores at headquarters, talking to Bernard, cut to another scene, then cut back Delores w/ William and Logan the next morning. It was edited to appear as if she talked to Bernard that same night, but there's no way management came out to the campfire in the middle of the night, picked her up, and then returned her, without William and Logan knowing.
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bangobango
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In reply to TCTTS • 2:14p, 10/26/16
AG
TCTTS said:
This. Episode 3 ended with Delores finding her way to William and Logan at night. Episode 4 began with Delores at headquarters, talking to Bernard, cut to another scene, then cut back Delores w/ William and Logan the next morning. It was edited to appear as if she talked to Bernard that same night, but there's no way management came out to the campfire in the middle of the night, picked her up, and then returned her, without William and Logan knowing.
Management goes in and out of sweetwater at all times of the day and night with nobody the wiser. Saying there is "no way" they could do it is overstating it.
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bangobango
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In reply to bobinator • 2:15p, 10/26/16
AG
bobinator said:
I don't really understand everyone's fascination with the train. That seems pretty simple to me. The car is on an elevator platform picking up folks as they come out of the changing rooms, when it hits the top floor they connect it to an engine and off they go. Of all the things to disect in this show, that one seems pretty straightforward.
The reason I'm fixated on it is because I think there may be something else going on at the park rather than what we think.

Maybe it is as simple as people entering and leaving like they're showing us, but the way they're doing things could also indicate that the park is not as it seems or as we believe it to be.
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