*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***

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NoHo Hank
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 3:17p, 11/1/16
AG
AliasMan02 said:
The more I think about it, the more I think the interview room where we see Bernard and Ford talk to Delores is digital. One of the butchers talked about VR during his break, so we know that's a thing. It also kinda lines up with the concept that "this is a dream." It solves some logistical problems as well.

Does anyone who is being physically examined do the "this is a dream" exchange? Maybe Delores in the first episode when talking to Stubbs with others in the room?
I really like this theory a lot. However, I'd have to go back to it to see if there are instances in which multiple people are involved where that falls apart.

In some cases, makes sense - the whole group talked to Abernathy but they pulled him from his loop specifically and had replaced him with someone else.

The more I think about it, the more I agree that Delores and the other hosts are not physically there during the debriefs / debugging unless something is physically wrong with the hosts (sheriff & abernathy's tic)
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bobinator
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3:21p, 11/1/16
AG
Exactly, that's a tricky part of a show that's so intentionally vague about some of the details.

In this case, unless we get into Dolores' head to know what she's thinking, so she sort of has to say it or else there's no way to convey that she's talking to Arnold. I guess we could have had a voice over while she's still just sitting there in the chair without her mouth moving, but they chose to go another way.

This might be a weird analogy, but it's like the character of Robert Langdon in the book vs in the movie. In the book, his reactions don't come across as strange because they're happening in his head, but in the movie they seemed absurd because for the audience to understand what he was thinking he had to actually say some of that crap out loud.

OR, it could all be very important to a part of the story, there's no way to be sure, haha.


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AliasMan02
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In reply to NoHo Hank • 3:25p, 11/1/16
AG
They are definitely there in person sometimes, but specifically I wonder about Delores.
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Btron
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In reply to ce1994 • 3:25p, 11/1/16
AG
ce1994 said:
If this show is telling a story I wish it would move it along. They are beating this "they are having groundhog day" over and over again to death.

The complaint I have with HBO series is they establish a plot line and then abandon it OR stay with it too long. And this soft porn is distracting. If I wanted to see a naked person I would go to pornhub and see the real thing.
FYI pornhub isn't real either, bro.
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claym711
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3:26p, 11/1/16
AG
The picture of Ford and Arnold....neither looks like Ford. Also Logan makes a comment that they can't find anything about the partner that died (not sure if he actually said it was Arnold). Also, Ford being able to control the robots with his mind, or at least no verbal cues, lends that he is also AI and not a real human.
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bobinator
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In reply to NoHo Hank • 3:26p, 11/1/16
AG
But again, why wouldn't they shutdown and debrief the host with the ax that went awol in the park? That would seem to be a lot smarter than sending two people in to hunt him down.

Maybe the host has to put itself into "sleep mode" to be accessible from the outside and that host didn't since it was on the move?

If Bernard is a host, and knows he's a host, then obviously this would make a lot more sense because he and Dolores would both be connected to some sort of network, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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bobinator
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In reply to claym711 • 3:28p, 11/1/16
AG
One of them is pretty clearly a digitally created young Anthony Hopkins right? Unless I missed something.
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AliasMan02
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3:34p, 11/1/16
AG
I keep planning to work on some ven diagrams for a few things on the show. One is tracking which characters have/have not been in a room together. Another is who has it hasn't ever been in a particular place, like the salon in Sweetwater or the repair/butcher floor.
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JJxvi
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In reply to bobinator • 3:36p, 11/1/16
AG
bobinator said:
One of them is pretty clearly a digitally created young Anthony Hopkins right? Unless I missed something.
In the flashback it was clearly Ford. The photo is not a great likeness,

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AggieRebel
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3:40p, 11/1/16
AG
Have William and Teddy been seen at the same time or interacted? It's hard for me to keep straight. Because in the first episode Dolores says to Teddy "You said you'd come back" like they were old lovers. So now I'm wondering if maybe Dolores does "fall" for William and when he leaves he tells her he'll come back and that leaves a void that the park creators can't erase for whatever reason so they create Teddy to fill that hole in Dolores' story. And the similarity with Dolores dropping the milk can and seeing William/teddy could be explained because the creators wrote the loop that way
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JJxvi
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3:41p, 11/1/16
AG
I think Teddy is created in the image of William and Hector is Logan, personally. William has not crossed Teddy's path at all.
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bobinator
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In reply to AggieRebel • 3:51p, 11/1/16
AG
This was one of my early theories on this thread as well, that Teddy is modeled on William for Dolores' sake. I guess we'll see.

On an unrelated note, I have, perhaps a dumb question, but I watched it again during lunch today and this scene still doesn't make sense and I haven't seen much talk about it.

So the two "butchers" are working on Maeve and patching her up, having a competition to see which one can finish first. In fact the asian one even talks about the incision, like it looked like she was trying to find something (which we know she was.) Then they go on break.

Later, the one comes back into the room while the other one is messing with the bird and towards the end of the scene says "we have another body" and the asian guy says looks startled and says "it's her, again" and they start working on Maeve again. Then the other says they have to "get her back in rotation."

Are there multiple Maeve's then or are these scenes further apart than they're presented? It certainly looked like working on Maeve -> break time -> working on Maeve again, but that wouldn't make any sense.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to bobinator • 3:55p, 11/1/16
AG
bobinator said:
Later, the one comes back into the room while the other one is messing with the bird and towards the end of the scene says "we have another body" and the asian guy says looks startled and says "it's her, again" and they start working on Maeve again. Then the other says they have to "get her back in rotation."

Are there multiple Maeve's then or are these scenes further apart than they're presented? It certainly looked like working on Maeve -> break time -> working on Maeve again, but that wouldn't make any sense.
I think Maeve is purposely getting shot so she can go back down into the complex. I took it to mean that he was surprised because she came back so fast.
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bobinator
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3:57p, 11/1/16
AG
That makes sense, the timing of those scenes just confused me because it made it seem like there were two Maeve's down there and then him saying "rotation" threw me a bit. That's the last thing we need interfering with theories is multiple bodies.
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Mathguy64
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4:34p, 11/1/16
AG
In the discussion about what room Dolores is in and if shes being talked to in person or VR, it occurred to me that Bernard talked to her while she was dressed. Ford had her naked, which is how all other interactions with hosts have taken place. I wonder if that means anything?
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DannyDuberstein
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4:35p, 11/1/16
AG
I would have her naked. Always naked.
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moriarty90
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4:40p, 11/1/16
AG
Yes it does. When naked that is real - when clothes that is VR with another host.
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bobinator
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 4:40p, 11/1/16
AG
only that protocol is to have them naked. Also Ford's talk seemed to happen inside the normal structure, not Adam James' tool shed where Bernard meets with her.
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JJxvi
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4:42p, 11/1/16
AG
I'm still pretty confident that Bernard and Dolores simply meet in a maintenance area inside the park in or near Sweetwater, where Dolores is hanging out anyway.
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rwd2012
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In reply to 3rdGen2015 • 5:01p, 11/1/16
3rdGen2015 said:
bobinator said:
Later, the one comes back into the room while the other one is messing with the bird and towards the end of the scene says "we have another body" and the asian guy says looks startled and says "it's her, again" and they start working on Maeve again. Then the other says they have to "get her back in rotation."

Are there multiple Maeve's then or are these scenes further apart than they're presented? It certainly looked like working on Maeve -> break time -> working on Maeve again, but that wouldn't make any sense.
I think Maeve is purposely getting shot so she can go back down into the complex. I took it to mean that he was surprised because she came back so fast.
I found it almost identical to the flashback feelings some of the host have gotten (Maeve and Dolores specifically) and is implying that this butcher is potentially a host as well. That's how I viewed it. It seemed identical to the way Maeve got caught in that same conversation with Clementine, and Dolores in several instances throughout the show.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 5:23p, 11/1/16
AG
DannyDuberstein said:
I would have her naked. Always naked.
I have to say that Maeve has a cherry on top of that whipped cream on top of that hot fudge sundae.
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bangobango
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In reply to bobinator • 5:25p, 11/1/16
AG
bobinator said:
This might be oversimplifying things, but I almost felt like she said the bit outloud after Ford left just so the audience would know for sure that she was lying.
It's not her first time to speak to nobody. When she finds the gun in the dirt she says "Here" out loud before digging it up. I think there is another example, too, but can't think of it off the top of my head.

We also have the whole milk guy talking to himself and yelling at "Arnold." I think it is very deliberate that they have her speaking to nobody.
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bangobango
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5:33p, 11/1/16
AG
I think the only implication of that comment about Maeve is that we are supposed to imply she is getting herself killed on purpose so she can go back to that room. Prior to this, she probably did not die that often, but now she is dying every day or so.

Maeve has learned how to wake herself from her slumber by counting down from three. She has probably been sitting in that room for a few nights playing dead and listening to what all those guys were talking about. Now she has revealed herself, so she probably has a plan (blackmail with the bird, maybe).

Also, if Maeve can wake herself, then the guy who went crazy was probably able to resist any command to enter a peaceful and restful slumber. Obviously he was able to disobey other commands, that's why they had to go in and catch him in person - nothing else was stopping him.
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AgLiving06
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In reply to bangobango • 8:35p, 11/1/16
Which then raises the question about how they were taught they could wake themselves up.

Is this part of the "secret" code that Ford has been feeding them?
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claym711
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8:37p, 11/1/16
AG
In Ford'a flashbacks when talking to Bernard, the half built robot laying on the table looks a hell of a lot like Logan....

There's also a shaved and bald man that looks like Bernard.
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claym711
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8:53p, 11/1/16
AG
The timing when Delores shoots the host with the big chop side burns in the barn doesn't make sense. She rides out and meets William and Logan in the night after killing that guy - so presumably she is in the past. However, she sees the MIB during that scene, which is presumably in the future. Doesn't make sense.
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AliasMan02
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In reply to claym711 • 9:39p, 11/1/16
AG
claym711 said:
The timing when Delores shoots the host with the big chop side burns in the barn doesn't make sense. She rides out and meets William and Logan in the night after killing that guy - so presumably she is in the past. However, she sees the MIB during that scene, which is presumably in the future. Doesn't make sense.


Similar for Maeve's vision of the MiB.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to claym711 • 9:41p, 11/1/16
AG
claym711 said:
In Ford'a flashbacks when talking to Bernard, the half built robot laying on the table looks a hell of a lot like Logan....

There's also a shaved and bald man that looks like Bernard.

Isn't the decommissioned Papa Abernathy shown in that scene?
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AliasMan02
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In reply to 3rdGen2015 • 9:43p, 11/1/16
AG
3rdGen2015 said:
claym711 said:
In Ford'a flashbacks when talking to Bernard, the half built robot laying on the table looks a hell of a lot like Logan....

There's also a shaved and bald man that looks like Bernard.

Isn't the decommissioned Papa Abernathy shown in that scene?


An early mechanical host model with Abernathy's likeness is, yes.

The guy on the table is the bandito who steals the safe, if I recall correctly... His name escapes me.
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claym711
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10:07p, 11/1/16
AG
The bandito and Logan look alike

What seems more likely is that we see multiple timelines in Delores perspective, with William and MIB both being in the past. She even 'sees' herself and receives clues from herself. Very Memento from that perspective. Could be that the maze is the ultimate test for Delores...her purpose, and once she solves it, she burns the picture...she's the greyhound.
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MW03
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11:44p, 11/1/16
AG
Someone recount the story Logan and William share about the park creator's death and the lawyers. Is that told in present day as in it just happened, or in the sense that it happened in the relatively distant past?
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bangobango
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In reply to claym711 • 12:20a, 11/2/16
AG
claym711 said:
The timing when Delores shoots the host with the big chop side burns in the barn doesn't make sense. She rides out and meets William and Logan in the night after killing that guy - so presumably she is in the past. However, she sees the MIB during that scene, which is presumably in the future. Doesn't make sense.


She shoots that guy in the "present."

Everything by her after that would be in the past of the split timeline is to be believed. Maybe some cuts to her in the present, during her little "flashback" type episodes, as well as her converations with Bernard and Ford, but for the most part her actions in Westworld after shooting that guy are in the past.

But you've kind of hit on why this is a convoluted mess if that's the way they are going.
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PooDoo
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12:31a, 11/2/16
AG
I just rewatched episodes 1 & 2. I think MiB is definitely William.

MiB said he's been coming here for 30 years, then said, I guess you could say I was born here.

I think we saw his birth this last episode.
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PooDoo
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12:34a, 11/2/16
AG
Also, what's the deal with Michael Crichton and crazy amusement parks?

Did he have an obsession with Disneyland as a child?

Another odd thing I noticed was when Bernard and Ford were talking about all the diseases having been curing Ford said the only thing they haven't done is bring someone back from the dead. The he said something like he's sure Lazarus will be coming soon... as the camera cut and zoomed to the white skull of a host in the processes of being created.

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Ogre09
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In reply to MW03 • 6:12a, 11/2/16
AG
MW03 said:
Someone recount the story Logan and William share about the park creator's death and the lawyers. Is that told in present day as in it just happened, or in the sense that it happened in the relatively distant past?


Definitely past tense, but possibly recent past...
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