This thread is circling the toilet.

I've made statements regarding what I think of The Last Jedi - there is some definite SJW crap in that movie that hurts that movie - but I a man not anywhere near the point of wanting to burn Kathleen Kennedy or Mickey Mouse at the stake. Kennedy has been involved in a bunch of movies for a long time, movies that I have enjoyed to one degree or another. I can forgive her for The Last Jedi, particularly considering that Solo did not cross into that silly SJW territory.

I'd rather see this thread return to simple discussions regarding the movies, even the hating on the prequels or the sequels, but leave the ******** politics out of it.

TCTTS said:

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daggertx said:

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Hopefully it's bad so maybe they will make a leadership change at lucasfilm.

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The Force Awakens
$248M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #2 All-time
$529M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #4 All-time
$936M Total / Domestic = #1 All-time
$2B Total / Worldwide = #3 All-time

Rogue One
$155M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #16 All-time
$290M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #27 All-time
$532M Total / Domestic = #10 All-time
$1B Total / Worldwide = #25 All-time

The Last Jedi
$220M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #3 All-time
$450M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #6 All-time
$620M Total / Domestic = #8 All-time
$1.3B Total / Worldwide = #11 All-time

Solo
$84M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #81 All-time
$148M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #97 All-time


With that resume - in addition to the countless other blockbuster classics Kennedy has produced over her nearly 40-year stellar career - one "failure" in this franchise isn't going to do her in. It's just comical how ridiculous all this "Fire Kennedy!" talk is.

It's not happening.

Besides, realistically, who could come in and do better? NO ONE is landing Spielberg/Nolan/Cameron/etc for a Star Wars movie. In terms of practicality, the next best thing blockbuster-wise is/was J.J. Abrams. He didn't want to do it, told her no repeatedly, yet she persisted and landed him. And then after Abrams' wife told him he could never do another sequel again after TFA, Kennedy somehow convinced him to come back for one last go with Episode IX.

Sure, Kennedy has clearly had her share of director troubles as well, but ANYONE would have hired Gareth Edwards after Godzilla, and ANYONE would have taken a chance on Johnson, who, by all accounts, is/was one of the smartest, nicest, and most exciting filmmakers around. Just because he didn't give fanboys the Luke they wanted doesn't mean he's a bad filmmaker. Not by a long shot. That, and kudos to Kennedy for thinking outside of the box and taking a chance on Lord & Miller as well. It obviously didn't work out, but the vast majority of fandom was over the moon when they were announced. And now she somehow lands James Mangold for a Boba Fett spin-off? I had absolutely no desire to see that movie, but after Logan, I'll be the first in line. I literally can't think of a better, more appropriate director to take on that material.

Outside of Colin Trevorrow, which she course-corrected, Kennedy is hiring EXACTLY who everyone - in terms of a realistic consensus - wants for these movies. Sure, I wish Lucasfilm as a whole would have taken more time to map, connect, and flesh out the new trajectory of the franchise before TFA hit theaters, and delayed everything 'til at least 2016, but Kennedy's hands were tied, her and Abrams tried to argue for more time, and Bob Iger wasn't having it. He had stock holders to answer to and wasn't budging from 2015. So if you want to blame anyone, blame Bob Iger.

Anyway, apologies for going off on a random post, but I've had enough of this whining. So many people in this thread and on Twitter have absolutely NO IDEA what they're talking about, and sound like petulant children stomping their feet in a tantrum because mommy gave them a sugar cookie instead of chocolate chip.

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Was not whining. I also dont care how much money the movies made.

TLJ was so bad I skipped Solo, and I am glad its failed in its 2nd weekend. Time for a leadership change.

You shouldn't be, it was actually a really fun movie.

Ep IX is going to do massive business whether you and other fans boycott or not, and Kennedy isn't getting fired anytime soon.

TCTTS said:

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daggertx said:

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Hopefully it's bad so maybe they will make a leadership change at lucasfilm.

---

The Force Awakens
$248M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #2 All-time
$529M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #4 All-time
$936M Total / Domestic = #1 All-time
$2B Total / Worldwide = #3 All-time

Rogue One
$155M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #16 All-time
$290M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #27 All-time
$532M Total / Domestic = #10 All-time
$1B Total / Worldwide = #25 All-time

The Last Jedi
$220M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #3 All-time
$450M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #6 All-time
$620M Total / Domestic = #8 All-time
$1.3B Total / Worldwide = #11 All-time

Solo
$84M Opening Weekend / Domestic = #81 All-time
$148M Opening Weekend / Worldwide = #97 All-time


With that resume - in addition to the countless other blockbuster classics Kennedy has produced over her nearly 40-year stellar career - one "failure" in this franchise isn't going to do her in. It's just comical how ridiculous all this "Fire Kennedy!" talk is.

It's not happening.

Besides, realistically, who could come in and do better? NO ONE is landing Spielberg/Nolan/Cameron/etc for a Star Wars movie. In terms of practicality, the next best thing blockbuster-wise is/was J.J. Abrams. He didn't want to do it, told her no repeatedly, yet she persisted and landed him. And then after Abrams' wife told him he could never do another sequel again after TFA, Kennedy somehow convinced him to come back for one last go with Episode IX.

Sure, Kennedy has clearly had her share of director troubles as well, but ANYONE would have hired Gareth Edwards after Godzilla, and ANYONE would have taken a chance on Johnson, who, by all accounts, is/was one of the smartest, nicest, and most exciting filmmakers around. Just because he didn't give fanboys the Luke they wanted doesn't mean he's a bad filmmaker. Not by a long shot. That, and kudos to Kennedy for thinking outside of the box and taking a chance on Lord & Miller as well. It obviously didn't work out, but the vast majority of fandom was over the moon when they were announced. And now she somehow lands James Mangold for a Boba Fett spin-off? I had absolutely no desire to see that movie, but after Logan, I'll be the first in line. I literally can't think of a better, more appropriate director to take on that material.

Outside of Colin Trevorrow, which she course-corrected, Kennedy is hiring EXACTLY who everyone - in terms of a realistic consensus - wants for these movies. Sure, I wish Lucasfilm as a whole would have taken more time to map, connect, and flesh out the new trajectory of the franchise before TFA hit theaters, and delayed everything 'til at least 2016, but Kennedy's hands were tied, her and Abrams tried to argue for more time, and Bob Iger wasn't having it. He had stock holders to answer to and wasn't budging from 2015. So if you want to blame anyone, blame Bob Iger.

Anyway, apologies for going off on a random post, but I've had enough of this whining. So many people in this thread and on Twitter have absolutely NO IDEA what they're talking about, and sound like petulant children stomping their feet in a tantrum because mommy gave them a sugar cookie instead of chocolate chip.

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You know who sounds like their whining?

they're*

There are probably multiple reasons why this is underperforming, but I think two of the main reasons are for one, the older crowd that grew up with the original trilogy have soured on the way Disney has handled the franchise. Whether its getting older and fantasy movies in space just aren't appealing as they used to be, political reasons or just bad storytelling, it seems as if the people 35 and older just aren't really into these movies. Two, the under 35 crowd that seem to enjoy the Disney Star Wars movies more just aren't invested in the older characters like Han Solo. Marvel is proving that franchise fatigue shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not talking about the hardcore fans. They are going to see it no matter what. I'm talking about people like me. I'm 39 and love the original trilogy, but I don't geek out over it. I saw TFA and TLJ on opening weekend and Rogue One the 2nd weekend. With the Solo film, I'm very meh and only went because one of my best friends is a hardcore fan. Though I enjoyed Solo, I wouldn't have cared much if I didn't see it until it came out on Starz.

I really can't buy the failure being on hardcore fans not seeing the film, the math just doesn't work.

Star Wars and Marvel films and other big budget blockbusters don't make hundreds of millions off the hardcore fans, they make it off the casual moviegoers that go out to see event films like Episode 7 and 8 and Infinity War (as well as films that get massive pub like Black Panther).

Solo just neve felt like an event, the kind of film that people feel like they have to see in the theater. That might be marketing related or it might be scheduling it in a busy season too close to the last SW film and too close to other big summer movies, or probably a combination of the two.

Either way your average viewer doesn't have strong feelings towards TFA or Kathleen Kennedy that are keeping them from seeing Solo.

Bruce Almighty said:

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There are probably multiple reasons why this is underperforming, but I think two of the main reasons are for one, the older crowd that grew up with the original trilogy have soured on the way Disney has handled the franchise. Whether its getting older and fantasy movies in space just aren't appealing as they used to be, political reasons or just bad storytelling, it seems as if the people 35 and older just aren't really into these movies. Two, the under 35 crowd that seem to enjoy the Disney Star Wars movies more just aren't invested in the older characters like Han Solo. Marvel is proving that franchise fatigue shouldn't be an issue.

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Both very good points. I obviously love this franchise, but I definitely feel like I've grown past it to an extent. I'm excited for Kenobi and whatever Benioff & Weiss are cooking up, and curious about Episode IX and Johnson's new trilogy, but I'm no longer expecting/demanding cinematic nirvana from these movies like I did even just a few years ago.

Besides, for the 35 and older crowd like myself, there's somewhat similar space-adventure fare on the horizon that might be more tuned to us. Denis Villeneuve's two-part Dune is likely going to be jaw-dropping, which he's literally calling "Star Wars for adults," and then there's Brad Pitt's Ad Astra later this year, which sounds like it could be amazing as well. I'm also wondering if Benioff & Weiss' film series might be Lucasfilm's attempt at more adult Star Wars fare, which would be awesome. I doubt they'll get too mature, of course, but I also can't imagine Benioff & Weiss getting too kid friendly either.

fig96 said:

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I really can't buy the failure being on hardcore fans not seeing the film, the math just doesn't work.

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I think it's true that it's not the hardcore fans buying tickets. Although with multiple viewings they do punch above their weight class, that's probably only swinging things by a few million dollars, not 100 million, especially since you see a lot of comments like "after five viewings I still hate..."

The other multiplier, and where I do think they can probably move the market by, say, $50mm, is evangelizing. If the office Star Wars geek has a poster up in his office and is out talking about it and emailing trailers, maybe some of his acquaintances end up getting excited enough to take their families. If that same geek is quiet or actively negative, he could push things the other way.

Understand, but I just don't think it's the semi casual fan not being excited with the Disney SW films, they all saw TFA and TLJ and unlike more hardcore fans don't have the strong negative feelings towards the handling of the films. I don't see this bigger picture root cause that many seem to want to point to.

They just didn't get excited about this one, it felt more like another movie coming out vs a Star Wars film that had to be experienced.

fig96 said:

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Understand, but I just don't think it's the semi casual fan not being excited with the Disney SW films, they all saw TFA and TLJ and unlike more hardcore fans don't have the strong negative feelings towards the handling of the films. I don't see this bigger picture root cause that many seem to want to point to.

They just didn't get excited about this one, it felt more like another movie coming out vs a Star Wars film that had to be experienced.

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We'll, this what I did and I think many folks may have done the same... I looked at Solo from my personal world view, I consciously looked for more people with that same likeminded bias and then I projected that bias onto the film. It's called...anyone? ... anyone? A confirmation bias.

I approached the issue with a preconceived set of notions and therefore everything confirmed my personal bias.

And then, of course, I ranted about it on TexAgs.

Now I could be correct in my initial conclusion(s) but there have been a lot of good posts from some pretty smart people and I've now concluded 3 things:

1. The movie, though having some polarizing undercurrents wasn't that bad.


2. No one thing hurt this film, it was several things. A perfect storm.


3. Lucasfilm would be wise to re-examine their vision for the direction of this franchise because Star Wars being a box office smash is no longer a gimmie. They need to do better than break even.


Now I strongly disagree with the politics and comments of the Lucasfilm team, but based off one failure it would show poor business leadership to terminate them assuming they do more than waffle release dates. But Rian Johnson is not the only writer in Hollywood and should be kept away from IX (IMHO).


Gig'em

Ummm... Captain America: The First Avenger begs to differ.

TCTTS said:

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Ummm... Captain America: The First Avenger begs to differ.

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I wouldn't call that a prequel


I have been wondering if Marvel will buck the trend and do some kind of Thanos Origin film. Would definitely go completely against their model, but could be an interesting "risk".

Bruce Almighty said:

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Black Widow could be a prequel

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Captain Marvel will be.

fig96 said:

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I really can't buy the failure being on hardcore fans not seeing the film, the math just doesn't work.

Star Wars and Marvel films and other big budget blockbusters don't make hundreds of millions off the hardcore fans, they make it off the casual moviegoers that go out to see event films like Episode 7 and 8 and Infinity War (as well as films that get massive pub like Black Panther).

Solo just neve felt like an event, the kind of film that people feel like they have to see in the theater. That might be marketing related or it might be scheduling it in a busy season too close to the last SW film and too close to other big summer movies, or probably a combination of the two.

Either way your average viewer doesn't have strong feelings towards TFA or Kathleen Kennedy that are keeping them from seeing Solo.

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I've disagreed with a lot of your perspectives but this is precise.

Ask yourself honestly, what percentage of the viewing audience know who KK is? What Lucasfilm is? Gasp, even that the Star Wars franchise is owned by Disney. Honestly.

Only hard core fans know this and they make up a small percentage of viewing audiences that push these type of films in the mega hundred millions/billion range. that should really be common sense.

Counterpart took Starz to another level. And y'all might be hearing relatively soon about another new show potentially taking it even further...