*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***

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jdubd34
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7:32a, 12/5/16
AG
I have a few questions (I should have started following this thread earlier so I apologize if this was already discussed):
  • I guess Logan is dead. So William killed Logan, and then was able to return home and basically take over Delos (which I believe was run by Logan's family)? I'm having trouble grasping that.
  • How was Ford able to get the park open after the deaths of Arnold and all the hosts? Was Delos involved at all yet with the park at that time?
  • I liked how the whole Maeve rebellion storyline was actually a diversion by Ford to allow his bigger story to happen. But it seems convenient that she was able to get so much help from the Asian technician. I kept thinking he was going to turn out to be a host. (Although it was funny seeing him think he was a host for a moment. Or maybe ironically he was a host and he has himself and Maeve fooled?
  • Is Bernard the only confirmed host in the park staff?
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hunter2012
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In reply to MW03 • 7:46a, 12/5/16
AG
MW03 said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:

I LOVED William/MIB smiling that wicked smile when he got shot and realized the game was finally real and he could be hurt.




That's the look of a kid walking in to Six Flags for the first time. He finally gets to visit the park he wanted. I expect him to go full Rambo next season in an uncontrolled park.
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Quinn
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:50a, 12/5/16
AG
TCTTS said:
That's the first post-credit scene I can remember seeing on HBO. Maybe even on cable TV, period.
Mr. Robot had post credit scenes in both of its season finales.
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to jdubd34 • 7:50a, 12/5/16
AG
jdubd34 said:
I have a few questions (I should have started following this thread earlier so I apologize if this was already discussed):
  • I guess Logan is dead. So William killed Logan, and then was able to return home and basically take over Delos (which I believe was run by Logan's family)? I'm having trouble grasping that.
  • How was Ford able to get the park open after the deaths of Arnold and all the hosts? Was Delos involved at all yet with the park at that time?
  • I liked how the whole Maeve rebellion storyline was actually a diversion by Ford to allow his bigger story to happen. But it seems convenient that she was able to get so much help from the Asian technician. I kept thinking he was going to turn out to be a host. (Although it was funny seeing him think he was a host for a moment. Or maybe ironically he was a host and he has himself and Maeve fooled?
  • Is Bernard the only confirmed host in the park staff?


It's possible Felix is a host. Since we now know Ford had programmed Maeve the whole time and that he can make them "see" what he wants (like Bernard and the cabin door).
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G Martin 87
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In reply to jdubd34 • 8:04a, 12/5/16
AG
jdubd34 said:
I have a few questions (I should have started following this thread earlier so I apologize if this was already discussed):
  • I guess Logan is dead. So William killed Logan, and then was able to return home and basically take over Delos (which I believe was run by Logan's family)? I'm having trouble grasping that.
  • How was Ford able to get the park open after the deaths of Arnold and all the hosts? Was Delos involved at all yet with the park at that time?
  • I liked how the whole Maeve rebellion storyline was actually a diversion by Ford to allow his bigger story to happen. But it seems convenient that she was able to get so much help from the Asian technician. I kept thinking he was going to turn out to be a host. (Although it was funny seeing him think he was a host for a moment. Or maybe ironically he was a host and he has himself and Maeve fooled?
  • Is Bernard the only confirmed host in the park staff?
1. Logan, alive or dead, was replaced by William. I doubt that Logan would have ever admitted to being humiliated by William if Logan was rescued by the staff. It was left unsaid whether William married Logan's sister after all, but it's probably a safe guess that he did in order to solidify his control over Delos. With Logan either dead or intimidated, William was able to take over Delos.

2. There were several references to William as the investor who saved the park. William also told Logan that he would be increasing Delos' investment in the park, so Delos already had some level of involvement in the park.

3. Felix was not a host. There's no evidence or reason to think otherwise. The exchange between him and Maeve was exactly what it appeared to be.

4. Yes. The only *confirmed* host.
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BowSowy
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In reply to jdubd34 • 8:17a, 12/5/16
AG
jdubd34 said:
I have a few questions (I should have started following this thread earlier so I apologize if this was already discussed):
  • I guess Logan is dead. So William killed Logan, and then was able to return home and basically take over Delos (which I believe was run by Logan's family)? I'm having trouble grasping that.
  • How was Ford able to get the park open after the deaths of Arnold and all the hosts? Was Delos involved at all yet with the park at that time?
  • I liked how the whole Maeve rebellion storyline was actually a diversion by Ford to allow his bigger story to happen. But it seems convenient that she was able to get so much help from the Asian technician. I kept thinking he was going to turn out to be a host. (Although it was funny seeing him think he was a host for a moment. Or maybe ironically he was a host and he has himself and Maeve fooled?
  • Is Bernard the only confirmed host in the park staff?
Felix was one of the first characters we saw show empathy for a host. Not only did his character facilitate a plotline crucial to the finale, it was also really nice foreshadowing for what happened in the finale.
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ramblin_ag02
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8:18a, 12/5/16
AG
I guessed I missed something. I thought "Maeve's escape" was the way the board and that hack writer were trying to get the core programming data off the island. They show her following a narrative, and her whole arc was predictable and flashy with lots of sex and violence. Seems like more of a hack boy job than a Ford narrative. But she keeps reliving the suffering of her daughter dying, gains consciousness, and makes a choice to defy her "escape" narrative and come back to the park. So Ford's subtle manipulations still win out over hack boy's over the top plan to get a host (and their programming) out of the park.

I also thought Felix was in on it, meaning he was told by a really higher up to do whatever Maeve wanted.
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BowSowy
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8:21a, 12/5/16
AG
Also, I don't know if anyone wants to go too deep down a rabbit hole about this show, but there is a reddit thread talking about some strange things going on with the delosincorporated.com website
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AliasMan02
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 8:22a, 12/5/16
AG
ramblin_ag02 said:
I guessed I missed something. I thought "Maeve's escape" was the way the board and that hack writer were trying to get the core programming data off the island. They show her following a narrative, and her whole arc was predictable and flashy with lots of sex and violence. Seems like more of a hack boy job than a Ford narrative. But she keeps reliving the suffering of her daughter dying, gains consciousness, and makes a choice to defy her "escape" narrative and come back to the park. So Ford's subtle manipulations still win out over hack boy's over the top plan to get a host (and their programming) out of the park.

I also thought Felix was in on it, meaning he was told by a really higher up to do whatever Maeve wanted.


I considered that she was the tool of the board as well, but as ruthless as they are, I don't think they're capable of turning loose hosts to kill dozens of people in the escape. That wouldn't serve their interests.
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bangobango
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 8:25a, 12/5/16
AG
ramblin_ag02 said:
I guessed I missed something. I thought "Maeve's escape" was the way the board and that hack writer were trying to get the core programming data off the island. They show her following a narrative, and her whole arc was predictable and flashy with lots of sex and violence. Seems like more of a hack boy job than a Ford narrative. But she keeps reliving the suffering of her daughter dying, gains consciousness, and makes a choice to defy her "escape" narrative and come back to the park. So Ford's subtle manipulations still win out over hack boy's over the top plan to get a host (and their programming) out of the park.

I also thought Felix was in on it, meaning he was told by a really higher up to do whatever Maeve wanted.


Abernathy was the host with the information they were trying to get off the island.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 8:26a, 12/5/16
AG
AliasMan02 said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
I guessed I missed something. I thought "Maeve's escape" was the way the board and that hack writer were trying to get the core programming data off the island. They show her following a narrative, and her whole arc was predictable and flashy with lots of sex and violence. Seems like more of a hack boy job than a Ford narrative. But she keeps reliving the suffering of her daughter dying, gains consciousness, and makes a choice to defy her "escape" narrative and come back to the park. So Ford's subtle manipulations still win out over hack boy's over the top plan to get a host (and their programming) out of the park.

I also thought Felix was in on it, meaning he was told by a really higher up to do whatever Maeve wanted.


I considered that she was the tool of the board as well, but as ruthless as they are, I don't think they're capable of turning loose hosts to kill dozens of people in the escape. That wouldn't serve their interests.
Right. The goal seemed to be to use Abernathy as a mule to smuggle code and other IP out of the park and away from Ford's control. The last thing the board would have wanted is a host rebellion.
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bangobango
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In reply to BowSowy • 8:26a, 12/5/16
AG
RossK10 said:
Also, I don't know if anyone wants to go too deep down a rabbit hole about this show, but there is a reddit thread talking about some strange things going on with the delosincorporated.com website


Link it or copy and paste. My guess is they have a meta game for everybody. Could be fun.
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mhayden
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8:28a, 12/5/16
Looking at Anthony Hopkins' career, I just didn't plan on seeing him do a second season of a TV show... and the ending certainly supported that.
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The White Wolf
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8:39a, 12/5/16
The big twist of the season was...

...

That tech was actually boning male hosts instead female. I did NOT see that coming! Mind. Blown. Was there evidence of that or foreshadowing in early episodes? Anyone call that? Reddit link?
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bobinator
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8:41a, 12/5/16
AG
I think the whole thing about gaining sentience is choosing to do something that's against your programming. Your own internal voice overrides the one the creators gave you (the bicameral mind is, after all, the name of the episode.)

Maeve chose to get off the train and come back to the park because of an emotional attachment to a daughter that she even knows she doesn't really have, but she can't fight her own emotion and it overrides her programming that she was supposed to leave the park and go to the mainland.

Dolores chose to kill Ford against her core code (remember she couldn't pull the trigger on William/MiB even though she wanted to) because killing the man who can pull on the strings is the only way the hosts will ever know that they're truly free. To put a (n almost too fine a) point on it, they literally showed Dolores talking to herself. Ford also knew this, which is why he allowed himself to be killed.

So far, Dolores and Maeve are the only two characters have crossed that threshold for sure. There's a chance Bernard has, but we don't see him make any big decision against his programming.

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Teacher_Ag
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8:43a, 12/5/16
AG
The ending was spectacular enough in and of itself, but if you're a Radiohead fan and heard Exit Music from OK Computer start playing for Ford's finale, it was extra intense. If you're not familiar with the original, check it out. The lyrics make it all the more fitting.



"Wake from your sleep
The drying of your tears
Today we escape, we escape

Pack and get dressed
Before your father hears us
Before all hell breaks loose

Breathe, keep breathing
Don't lose your nerve
Breathe, keep breathing
I can't do this alone

Sing us a song
A song to keep us warm
There's such a chill, such a chill

You can laugh
A spineless laugh
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you
Now we are one in everlasting peace

We hope that you choke, that you choke
We hope that you choke, that you choke
We hope that you choke, that you choke"


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The White Wolf
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8:44a, 12/5/16
But on a serious note, with the idea of the hosts actually making a choice...I believe this, and whether or not Ford made a host replica to die in his place are the two big things left for interpretation. Something Nolan has continued to do so well in his career as a writer. Another amazing ending.

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Dro07
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8:50a, 12/5/16
AG
ok so quick question about "Wyatts" crew of mountain people that couldn't be killed... Were those really the hosts in cold storage?
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Brian Earl Spilner
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8:52a, 12/5/16
AG
So having had a night of to digest the finale, things are becoming a little clearer. But one thing that I keep coming back to is - what exactly was Dolores' motivation to kill all those board members?

Is there some detail I missed? I'm planning to rewatch the finale but this question is bugging me.
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bobinator
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8:52a, 12/5/16
AG
Sort of like my hesitance on the William-is-MiB thing, I have some reservation about Ford being dead as well. And, like I said for the MiB, I agree with about 95% of the evidence one way, there's just a small detail that's nagging at me.

In this case, it's the handshake between Ford and Bernard. That seemed weird, and it reminded me of a scene all the way back at the beginning of the season about how the original hosts could be given away with only a handshake. Now, they can't. So if Ford had somehow created a host version of himself, there would be no way to tell.

Now, if we follow this rabbit hole a bit, the only thing that would thematically make sense is if Ford created the host version, and then let his real self die. He mentions that the hosts are supposed to be better than the humans, perhaps he sees this is a way to make a better version of himself. Then we're sort of getting into Prestige territory about splitting consciousness and what is "real," but that's perhaps that's a little too far down the hole for now.
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bobinator
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 8:53a, 12/5/16
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
So having had a night of to digest the finale, things are becoming a little clearer. But one thing that I keep coming back to is - what exactly was Dolores' motivation to kill all those board members?

Is there some detail I missed? I'm planning to rewatch the finale but this question is bugging me.
So they don't shut down the entire park and all the hosts in it?
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Sailor
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8:54a, 12/5/16
You people are slipping - three pages of post finale posts and not one mention of a blonde merkin!
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BowSowy
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In reply to bangobango • 8:56a, 12/5/16
AG
bangobango said:
RossK10 said:
Also, I don't know if anyone wants to go too deep down a rabbit hole about this show, but there is a reddit thread talking about some strange things going on with the delosincorporated.com website


Link it or copy and paste. My guess is they have a meta game for everybody. Could be fun.


Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5gjqp0/spoiler_delosincorporatedcom_updated_after_ep_10/
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bobinator
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In reply to Dro07 • 8:57a, 12/5/16
AG
dromo07 said:
ok so quick question about "Wyatts" crew of mountain people that couldn't be killed... Were those really the hosts in cold storage?
That's how I interpreted that. One plot string into season two is that Sizemore knows everything they were trying to sneak out of the park is inside Abernathy who's now back in the park.
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 8:58a, 12/5/16
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
So having had a night of to digest the finale, things are becoming a little clearer. But one thing that I keep coming back to is - what exactly was Dolores' motivation to kill all those board members?

Is there some detail I missed? I'm planning to rewatch the finale but this question is bugging me.

This is one of the reasons I don't particularly care for Nolan making her Wyatt. It makes it a matter of programming than one of choice IMO.

Which IMO pretty much destroys the journey to he center of the maze arc.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the episode because I did, but damn. Dolores being Wyatt pretty much destroyed her journey to ge center of the maze because it's almost as if the old programming manifested again under Ford's manipulation....
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Independent George
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9:00a, 12/5/16
AG
I must be in the minority here but it is clear as day that Maeve is NOT sentient yet. Bernard reads her the script for all that has happened and would happen. He says something like, "..and when you get to the train on the mainland..." gets cutoff there. I took that as, No Maeve, you will turn back on the train, not escape.

She just needs more time and suffering. Dolores is the only confirmed host to reach the top of the pyramid thus far.
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bobinator
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9:00a, 12/5/16
AG
That's the entire point though, Bernard made her kill all those people last time. This time, she decided to do it on her own.
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bobinator
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In reply to Independent George • 9:01a, 12/5/16
AG
You could see on the screen that the next thing she was supposed to do was go to the Mainland. I think it said "mainland infiltration" on the screen. So her getting off the train was going against that programming.
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Independent George
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9:02a, 12/5/16
AG
I figured when Ford was planning out this narrative he saw Felix working on the bird and chose him to be Maeves assistant. Then again it seems all of that staff is pretty stupid and easy to manipulate.
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redline248
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 9:03a, 12/5/16
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
So having had a night of to digest the finale, things are becoming a little clearer. But one thing that I keep coming back to is - what exactly was Dolores' motivation to kill all those board members?

Is there some detail I missed? I'm planning to rewatch the finale but this question is bugging me.


It seemed to me Ford was telling Bernard, and Dolores figured it out as well, that in order to be free they had to go to war with humans. (I can't remember exactly what he said). I think Dolores, in deciding the park was for the hosts, also decided that all the humans needed to die.
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Independent George
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In reply to bobinator • 9:04a, 12/5/16
AG
bobinator said:
You could see on the screen that the next thing she was supposed to do was go to the Mainland. I think it said "infiltrate the mainland" on the screen. So her getting off the train was going against that programming.
Agreed there. That is why she has this idea to go to the mainland to begin with.
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bangobango
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9:09a, 12/5/16
AG
If Ford were to make a host copy of himself, wouldn't he send that host out there to get shot instead of himself?
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bangobango
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In reply to bobinator • 9:10a, 12/5/16
AG
bobinator said:
dromo07 said:
ok so quick question about "Wyatts" crew of mountain people that couldn't be killed... Were those really the hosts in cold storage?
That's how I interpreted that. One plot string into season two is that Sizemore knows everything they were trying to sneak out of the park is inside Abernathy who's now back in the park.


I missed Abernathy being back in the park?
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bobinator
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In reply to bangobango • 9:11a, 12/5/16
AG
He could, but if that's what happened, it defeats the entire plot of the first season right?

If Ford has really seen the hosts as conscious, and better than the humanity that created them, he'd want the host version of himself to live on.
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bobinator
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In reply to bangobango • 9:11a, 12/5/16
AG
We don't actually see him in the park, but as Dromo said, that's sort of the implication of all the old hosts being gone from cold storage when Sizemore opens up the doors and they aren't there.
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