I think Dolores, in the original Arnold timeline, finds sentience and life too painful, gets angry, and "saves" the others from that pain by mowing them down Wyatt style - Killing Arnold, aka the seated General, last. Don't have a similar wild ass guess as to how the William/Dolores timeline ends, but we know Dolores once got to the center of the maze and that the MIB says he "saved" the park back in the day. Not sure if that meant financially or by covering something up from the William/Dolores center-of-maze ending. I would guess the older timelines are wrapped up in finale and the "present" is the only one continued in next season, but all wild all guesses.
*** WESTWORLD Season 1 (HBO) ***
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From the quote above, I think there is going to be a big reveal about where the park is and why it has been so isolated during this series. They've really done a good job keeping all the focus on the park and not really letting any of the outside world creep in. I think the park itself is not what we think it is.
The park is located off world... like the moon
I'm watching the original West World movie from 1973... interesting flick for back then. Very cool to see it now.
Just noticed a small but interesting detail. Slowly through the episodes, William's shirt turns from white to brown to black.
Well, except for that bit of dialogue I posted a couple of pages ago. The MiB says that Maeve, after he kills her daughter, is the first time he's seen a host "truly alive" but William seems pretty sure that Dolores is truly alive right?TCTTS said:
Just found this. It's a HUGE help and basically confirms what I/we are thinking, re: the church/timelines...
http://www.vulture.com/2016/11/westworld-timeline-guide.html
At this point, if you don't believe William = MIB, you're straight up in denial.
I still think William is probably the MiB, but that bit of dialogue threw me.
Maybe something happens at the end of Williams storyline that causes him to change his mind about Deloros being alive. Only way I could rectify that comment
Another timeline explanation chronologically from Dolores and the control room under the steeple perspective....who she meets when and a little of what it means extrapolation.
WARNING - spoilers in the form of predictions for the finale....but who knows really.
http://uproxx.com/tv/westworld-timelines-unraveled/
Plan on doing this once the season is over. i remember seeing the tape on the shelves at the local movie story over 20 years ago and it always kinda freaked me out.irish pete ag06 said:
I'm watching the original West World movie from 1973... interesting flick for back then. Very cool to see it now.
so we know delores becomes sentient and kills arnold... most assume because she is angry for all the pain/rape/etc. she's gone through... but doesn't she kill arnold while they're still in the original town and before they change her role where she sees her dad killed and gets raped every time? they haven't really shown anything bad happen to her in the original narrative/town. so i'm curious as to her reasoning for going ape and killing arnold. i guess it's just the realization her life is fake and meaningless?
TroyMc said:
so we know delores becomes sentient and kills arnold... most assume because she is angry for all the pain/rape/etc. she's gone through... but doesn't she kill arnold while they're still in the original town and before they change her role where she sees her dad killed and gets raped every time? they haven't really shown anything bad happen to her in the original narrative/town. so i'm curious as to her reasoning for going ape and killing arnold. i guess it's just the realization her life is fake and meaningless?
that link i posted above suggest something.....it's non specific but along the lines of
something Arnold says to her...or just meeting him because it's the voice in her head...drives her mad and she runs out of there and starts killing everyone....Arnold follows and gets killed too. Perhaps the protection mechanisms also failed. We haven't seen this but from Teddy's implanted version assume he is Arnold
I suppose he could become disillusioned and "realize" that Dolores was never really alive, she was programmed to make him think she was, but then after he saw Maeve "alive" he'd realize that Dolores really was alive way back when.
Its very possible that Ford altered Dolores without telling Arnold. Thats why Arnold was having those talks with her in the basement below the town, to find out why she is showing differential behavior. Fords plan might have been to kill arnold using Dolores for the coverup.TroyMc said:
so we know delores becomes sentient and kills arnold... most assume because she is angry for all the pain/rape/etc. she's gone through... but doesn't she kill arnold while they're still in the original town and before they change her role where she sees her dad killed and gets raped every time? they haven't really shown anything bad happen to her in the original narrative/town. so i'm curious as to her reasoning for going ape and killing arnold. i guess it's just the realization her life is fake and meaningless?
We have heard that Ford and Arnold were 'friends' but also of how different they thought, especially about the hosts. Every time Ford has had the board after him, what does he do? Kills them. This time however, Fords plan isnt fully achieved because Arnold builds himself into the hosts somehow. Last episode when Arnold was talking to Dolores and says you killed me, he wasnt mad at all. Merely pointing out that she did and maybe had no choice.
Maybe that is also why William/MIB says Maeve was the only one truly alive. He must have found out Dolores was actually just following Fords plan the whole time they were together. Might be some holes in this theory but i'm just spitballin.
A host that lives in the real world would be an insane leap.
As Bobinator pointed out, for a show that focuses so much on details, I find it hard to believe that the MIB's conversation where he reveals his backstory wasn't analyzed from every angle. And two things happen in that conversation.Belton Ag said:Yeah. I don't know if it's been stated in this thread about the hat symbolism but it's pretty clear that William, young and innocent in the white hat at the beginning, has become the old and sinister figure in the black hat at the end.Quote:
At this point, if you don't believe William = MIB, you're straight up in denial.
1. He says after killing Maeve and seeing her reaction, he saw her as a human for the first time ever. William sees Delores as a human, period. He may change his mind, but right now there is no question asked he sees her as a human.
2. He says after Maeve's death, the maze revealed itself to him for the first time, and suddenly the ground around him has the maze pattern in it. Delores has spoken of the maze to William, and he said he'd help her find it.
The show wants you to think MIB = William. I think that's a red herring and on Sunday we find out he is a host and part of the arnold/ford new narrative.
OK, but how do you explain the lengthy conversation with Charlotte Hale regarding the board and their desire to force Ford out? Also, how do you explain the guest who recognized him and who he threatened in an earlier episode?Quote:
The show wants you to think MIB = William. I think that's a red herring and on Sunday we find out he is a host and part of the arnold/ford new narrative.
He's been recognized by other guests. Unless Ford sent a host outside of the park, which is super unlikely, I doubt he'll be revealed as a host.john32f said:As Bobinator pointed out, for a show that focuses so much on details, I find it hard to believe that the MIB's conversation where he reveals his backstory wasn't analyzed from every angle. And two things happen in that conversation.Belton Ag said:Yeah. I don't know if it's been stated in this thread about the hat symbolism but it's pretty clear that William, young and innocent in the white hat at the beginning, has become the old and sinister figure in the black hat at the end.Quote:
At this point, if you don't believe William = MIB, you're straight up in denial.
1. He says after killing Maeve and seeing her reaction, he saw her as a human for the first time ever. William sees Delores as a human, period. He may change his mind, but right now there is no question asked he sees her as a human.
2. He says after Maeve's death, the maze revealed itself to him for the first time, and suddenly the ground around him has the maze pattern in it. Delores has spoken of the maze to William, and he said he'd help her find it.
The show wants you to think MIB = William. I think that's a red herring and on Sunday we find out he is a host and part of the arnold/ford new narrative.
Other than that, I think it's probably 80/20 that MiB = William. That part about him seeing Maeve as human in his old age bothers me too.
I'd put the odds on the MiB being a host at roughly zero,
I'm like 50/50 that William is the MiB, I think it could just as easily be Logan, that conversation really bothers me.
I'm like 50/50 that William is the MiB, I think it could just as easily be Logan, that conversation really bothers me.
There's pretty much zero doubt in my mind that Dolores will execute Arnold sitting in that chair. That is the "truth" behind Wyatt executing the general.
Bob and John, I think y'all are misinterpreting the William/dolores situation. He never says he thinks Dolores is alive, just that there is something different about her. Very different than what he says he saw with Maeve and her daughter where Maeve experiencing grief/hysteria over the loss of her child and showing an extrodianry will to live to try to help her
THIS.
Arnold had Dolores read "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", right? What if Dolores draws the conclusion that she is just dreaming and tries to "wake herself up" by shooting herself after going on a murderous rampage?Brian Earl Spilner said:
There's pretty much zero doubt in my mind that Dolores will execute Arnold sitting in that chair. That is the "truth" behind Wyatt executing the general.
I mean, he thought Dolores was alive enough to fall in love with her and bang her on a train when he wouldn't bang the robots specifically built for banging... Seems to me he's pretty sure that her feelings are genuine
Yeah, I just don't agree with that at all. Especially when as viewers we see that Maeve and Delores are going through the same awakening transformation. They're becoming sentient / alive. To say he doesn't recognize it in Delores when he's clearly so enamored and in love with her just doesn't make sense. And even if there are some nuances there, the interactions are not so different that he'd differentiate the two completely. During the MIB's speech, he gives the impression that Maeve's reaction is unlike anything he's ever seen at the park before.AggieRebel said:
Bob and John, I think y'all are misinterpreting the William/dolores situation. He never says he thinks Dolores is alive, just that there is something different about her. Very different than what he says he saw with Maeve and her daughter where Maeve experiencing grief/hysteria over the loss of her child and showing an extrodianry will to live to try to help her
That's a lot more fitting of Logan that it is of William. And if the MIB were Logan, the parallels between him murdering Delores and him murdering Maeve would be a lot more poignant. Regardless, we'll find out Sunday. I don't think William will end up being MIB and I wouldn't be shocked if MIB ends up a host.
Bingo, beat me to it.AggieRebel said:
Bob and John, I think y'all are misinterpreting the William/dolores situation. He never says he thinks Dolores is alive, just that there is something different about her. Very different than what he says he saw with Maeve and her daughter where Maeve experiencing grief/hysteria over the loss of her child and showing an extrodianry will to live to try to help her
Seems so weird to me to let that one tiny detail convince you that he's not, in the face of like 20 other things that definitely allude to William = MIB.
dlance said:Or perhaps Ford and Arnold had their major argument. Ford then has Dolores wipe all the hosts plus Arnold out, then terminate herself. Like he did with Bernard.G Martin 87 said:Arnold had Dolores read "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", right? What if Dolores draws the conclusion that she is just dreaming and tries to "wake herself up" by shooting herself after going on a murderous rampage?Brian Earl Spilner said:
There's pretty much zero doubt in my mind that Dolores will execute Arnold sitting in that chair. That is the "truth" behind Wyatt executing the general.
I too felt like there was some symbolism with Bernard putting the gun to his head similar to Delores putting the gun to her head.
I'm not completely convinced it's not, but I'm just no longer completely convinced it is.
Gotcha.
Thinking about this though did make me realize that maybe the MiB has realized a way to get the hosts off their normal path is to cause a traumatic event. Explains why he aces Teddy in front of Dolores for what, at the time, seems like no reason.
I like that idea. Definitely sounds plausible to me.
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