I can see all of the evidence for the two timeline theory and it is compelling, but isn't teddy helping the MiB because he told him that Dolores is out there ahead of them and he wants to save her?

Maybe the two storylines haven't crossed because they are chasing them?

I want to believe in the two timeline theory but that is kind of keeping me from buying in 100%. Can anyone clear that up? Did I miss something?

dlance said:

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frog_killer said:

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I can see all of the evidence for the two timeline theory and it is compelling, but isn't teddy helping the MiB because he told him that Dolores is out there ahead of them and he wants to save her?

Maybe the two storylines haven't crossed because they are chasing them?

I want to believe in the two timeline theory but that is kind of keeping me from buying in 100%. Can anyone clear that up? Did I miss something?

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Teddy is helping him because he thinks he cannot have Dolores until he has his reckoning with Wyatt which is who the MiB is looking for now. Teddy left Dolores behind to find Wyatt and that's when he ended up strapped to a tree near death. Meanwhile Bernard told Dolores to go seek the maze. Neither the MiB nor Teddy knows she is trying to get there now.

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Pretty sure MIB initially told Teddy when he found him that Delores was kidnapped by the man he's looking for.

Yes exactly. He's helping him because he conned teddy into thinking Delores is going to be where they go.

To be fair I think Dolores will end up there also, but yeah he just straight up lied to Teddy to get him to join.

For those looking for episode recaps, I've enjoyed the EW guy, good recap, themes and theories.
http://www.ew.com/recap/westworld-adversary-season-1-episode-6

Gotcha

I'm guessing William comes across homesteading Mauve, thus proving the two timelines.

Meaning she used to live out on the homestead with her daughter in a previous iteriation.

Glad to finally read that some people are considering Bernard is a recreated Arnold. Been saying it for weeks! I think this is coolest element to the multiple timelines theory. And I am using "multiple" instead of "two" because I think it could go a step further with the scenes where (presumably) Bernard is speaking with Dolores in that private room. We could quite possibly be seeing Arnold back when he was human in these scenes.

TCTTS said:

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Meaning she used to live out on the homestead with her daughter in a previous iteriation.

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Yeah I started to ask a different question and then deleted it. My question was around the fact that we saw her with mib in the previous iteration. But that could have been just over one year prior.

The White Wolf said:

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Glad to finally read that some people are considering Bernard is a recreated Arnold. Been saying it for weeks! I think this is coolest element to the multiple timelines theory. And I am using "multiple" instead of "two" because I think it could go a step further with the scenes where (presumably) Bernard is speaking with Dolores in that private room. We could quite possibly be seeing Arnold back when he was human in these scenes.

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Yep. And throw another twist in there as a possible theory.

Them showing the Yule Brenner MiB in the last episode wasn't just an ode to him. It was meant to show that the system that tied to these early version robots coincided with the time that the movie would have occurred. The catastrophe they refer to in the show could then be similar to the events of the movie. The William and Logan characters could be the show's interpretation of the two visitors from the movie, and therefore the timeline William and Delores are in together is leading up to the catastrophe of the movie, referred to in the show. It points to Arnold (the pre-Bernard) being the root of the movie like catastrophe, and that his conversations with Delores occur in that movie time period.

I know, it's kind of out there as a theory, but we're all just spit balling here.

It was nothing more than a hat tip

Quote:

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Jonathan Nolan: It was indeed. It was a little tip of the hat. We didn't want to feature it too heavily, we don't want you reading too much into that.

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LHIOB said:

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It was nothing more than a hat tip

Quote:

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Jonathan Nolan: It was indeed. It was a little tip of the hat. We didn't want to feature it too heavily, we don't want you reading too much into that.

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Oh well

mavsfan4ever said:

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But that's what they would say if it was actually more than a hat tip. So maybe it's actually more than a hat tip. Or maybe they know that I would think they are lying if they said it was just a hat tip so they said that to throw me off, meaning it is just a hat tip...

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But that's exactly what they WANT you to think.

mavsfan4ever said:

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But that's what they would say if it was actually more than a hat tip. So maybe it's actually more than a hat tip. Or maybe they know that I would think they are lying if they said it was just a hat tip so they said that to throw me off, meaning it is just a hat tip...

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If they know that we think we know, then they'll think that we might know the thing that we thought we knew.

Here are two things that stood out to me big time:

1. MiB saying "I understand the visceral pleasure of revenge more than most..." as he pleads with the soldiers holding him and Teddy hostage. I would add this to William=MiB, as I'm sure it'll come full circle when we see Logan go even one step further than their argument in Pariah and give William a need for vengeance. Would also make sense in the fact that he got his revenge over him by eventually taking over the company in some manner.

2. When Ford sees the maze on the table where the men are playing dominoes, it seems as it's not something he put there. This is even backed up when he immediately goes through Arnold's old notebook and flips to the page after Dolores and examines what Arnold had written about the maze. What's interesting here is the maze and Ford's new story line are two separate things (from what I understand at least because there was questions concerning the maze before Ford even began implementing the new story line) but how do they fit together and do they at all is the real question. The maze being Arnold's work also lends more evidence to this idea that those scenes with Bernard and Dolores are indeed actually with Arnold when considering him introducing Dolores to the maze.

What I find strange though, is what Teddy says to MiB about the maze. "the maze is an old native myth. The maze itself is the sum of a man's life. The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs on to. And there at the center, there's a legendary man who had been killed over and over again countless times, but always clawed his way back to life. The man returned for the last time and vanquished all his oppressors in a tireless fury. He built a house. Around that house he built a maze so complicated, only he could navigate through it. I'd reckon he'd seen enough of fighting." You have to wonder if these are Arnold's words or Ford's...

Damn, took the words right out of my mouth.

The natives had the hazmat suits as part of their religion, too.

The White Wolf said:

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Here are two things that stood out to me big time:

1. MiB saying "I understand the visceral pleasure of revenge more than most..." as he pleads with the soldiers holding him and Teddy hostage. I would add this to William=MiB, as I'm sure it'll come full circle when we see Logan go even one step further than their argument in Pariah and give William a need for vengeance. Would also make sense in the fact that he got his revenge over him by eventually taking over the company in some manner.

2. When Ford sees the maze on the table where the men are playing dominoes, it seems as it's not something he put there. This is even backed up when he immediately goes through Arnold's old notebook and flips to the page after Dolores and examines what Arnold had written about the maze. What's interesting here is the maze and Ford's new story line are two separate things (from what I understand at least because there was questions concerning the maze before Ford even began implementing the new story line) but how do they fit together and do they at all is the real question. The maze being Arnold's work also lends more evidence to this idea that those scenes with Bernard and Dolores are indeed actually with Arnold when considering him introducing Dolores to the maze.

What I find strange though, is what Teddy says to MiB about the maze. "the maze is an old native myth. The maze itself is the sum of a man's life. The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs on to. And there at the center, there's a legendary man who had been killed over and over again countless times, but always clawed his way back to life. The man returned for the last time and vanquished all his oppressors in a tireless fury. He built a house. Around that house he built a maze so complicated, only he could navigate through it. I'd reckon he'd seen enough of fighting." You have to wonder if these are Arnold's words or Ford's...

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I like your ideas.

1. No idea if this is how it plays out, but it's an interesting scenario. Personally I'm all in on William as MiB.

2. I agree the maze is Arnold's work & not put there by Ford. I agree it predates the new storyline (by about 34 years).

Not sold on Bernard & Delores is actually Arnold & Delores initially introducing her to the concepts. They certainly could go in that direction, I just don't think they will.


I think the native maze myth is:
a. elements left behind by Arnold, potentially just now manafesting themselves.

b. something which organically grew amongst the robots over time. Arnold left bits & pieces; which the Natives extrapolated & put together over time in a way that made sense to their perspective.

c. some combination

D. something else?

Also absolutely love this show.

Time now, after episode six, I don't think multiple time frames is intended as a "gimmick," "twist," or "reveal." I think it's just an original* & creative storytelling device used to build an engaging world. I could be wrong. However, it seems so intrinsic to the show I do not think it is meant as a trick.


*Original to me.

Originally I was against management as hosts, because I felt like I had seen that before. Nothing for or against the in show evidence, I just did not think it would be narratively interesting. I now believe these show runners could pull it off spectacularly. Maybe it turns in to a hunt for Cylons, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the writers & producers.

Also, I'm 65% in on Bernard as a host.

What I really wanted in that scene with Maeve and the Asian butcher was for him to begin to question his own reality as well. Still an absolute great scene with the "I was born. You were made." line, but interesting how he doesn't even consider this to be a possibility. This is something I find the most interesting when dealing with AI. That being when an actual human becomes worried about their own existence and begins to question their reality. This concept is something I hope to see play out in the show whether it be they are hosts or indeed humans, I would just love to see how Nolan & Joy would tackle it.

Plus it all relates back to the first episode and the question harped on so often: "Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?"

I said I was afraid of a Battlestar Gallactica situation all the way back on page 4. That's the one thing I don't particularly care for is trying to figure out which people outside the park might not be real, but it's not a big deal.

I think there's about a 45% chance that everyone on the show is a host except Ford and Theresa

The White Wolf said:

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What I really wanted in that scene with Maeve and the Asian butcher was for him to begin to question his own reality as well. Still an absolute great scene with the "I was born. You were made." line, but interesting how he doesn't even consider this to be a possibility. This is something I find the most interesting when dealing with AI. That being when an actual human becomes worried about their own existence and begins to question their reality. This concept is something I hope to see play out in the show whether it be they are hosts or indeed humans, I would just love to see how Nolan & Joy would tackle it.

Plus it all relates back to the first episode and the question harped on so often: "Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?"

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I thought they would go that route as well. It was set up perfectly because Maeve even asked "but how do you know?" when he tells her he was born and she was made. But he never questioned it. I guess he still could in the future.