Several characters, like Jaime and The Hound, have made the switch from "bad guy" to "good guy." I fully expect Cat to make the same transition in reverse -- from tragic hero to a villain that you loathe.

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Where is Strong Belwas? It's been a long time since I read the books, but shouldn't he be in the story by the time Dani sacked Yunkei?

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He makes his appearance with Barristan, however, he is a pretty non-essential character, so the show likely decided not to include him.

They've already stated that Strong Belwas will not be appearing in the series

So no cold hands? Is it because it gives away too much of who he is or is he insignificant in the grand scheme?

well damn. whoever said no uncat was right. feels like a missed opportunity to me

still a good episode, except for the awkward dany scene (though there's not really a way to stage that part so it doesn't look corny, i guess)

now another 9 month wait

Ugh... Initial reaction is that it was pretty crappy for a season finale by GOT standards

I liked the episode quite a bit. Could have been a lot more though.

Have the other finales been good?

I thought it was pretty underwhelming. Of course, it's hard to see Dany's scene positively since I know she's about to spend the next 3 seasons in Meereen aka the most uninteresting place in the world.

i think the dany scene and the lack of uncat leaves the episode on a kind of a sour note

but honestly, i greatly enjoyed everything else. i like this new take on theon's sister, curious to see how that plays out. arya's scene was the best in the episode, so good!

It's about what one should expect ending the season in the middle of the book it's based from. Maybe they could have ended with the Arya scene, but I don't know. The only thing that was wrong with the episode was the fact we have to wait so long for the next season.

Season 1 was the birth of the dragons, season 2 was the white walker army.

Season 3 was... Dany crowd surfing. Plus no coldhands. The Arya scene was money, though.

I don't wonder if Tywin was hinting in his scene with Tyrion that Tyrion is really not Hus biological son.

3 seasons of getting to know Hizdhar zo Loraq

F_ck that guy!

MW - was thinking the same thing, especially the way tywin said "raised you as my son". side note, Charles Dance is ****ing epic. he is the perfect Tywin

lot of other stuff to comment on now that i've let it sit for a few minutes...all the stuff at the Wall was good, the actor playing Sam has really come into his own - and glad we got Sam and Jon both back at castle black to give some closure there before SHTF next up there next season.

guy playing Davos was also money this episode, one of my favorite characters from the books and he's been consistently nailing him. i like that they kept the spirit of Davos practicing reading on the NW letter

also, jaime just making that short appearance and the wordless exchange between him and cersei was a great moment

roose and frey - interesting scene, i like how they brought up ramsay's identity without theon still really knowing who he is.

on that note... "my name is Reek"...man, looking back at that whole 'arc' this season, i think they did a terrific job breaking theon's humanity down. i hope the non-readers were happy with that, cause i think it mimicked the books very well, and theon/reek is my favorite character throughout all 5 books

[This message has been edited by Elliot P. Campbell (edited 6/9/2013 9:24p).]

Boy all the people in the non spoilers thread are going to be pissed when Danny's story goes nowhere for a few years.

Overall I thought it was a good episode. First we got a lot of Stannis and even a decent bit of jojen and meets. That makes it good to me. Ayra was nails and the lannisters were pretty good as well. Glad they worked in Jon being shot. All in all I have no problems with this setting up the next season.

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Boy all the people in the non spoilers thread are going to be pissed when Danny's story goes nowhere for a few years.

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I know. I was thinking about that - at next years season finale the show watchers will be all "sweet! Tyrion is off to meet Dany and they're going to meet up and come to Westeros and kick azz!" And instead they'll get Hirzoo mo Wirzoo and Dario pron while Tyrion jousts on a pig. Poor kids have NO idea what they're in for.

So, up next in Season 4:

- the wildlings attack the wall, Ygritte dies, Jon becomes Lord Commander
- Stannis defeats the wildlings beyond the wall
- Dany takes Mereen, exiles Jorah
- Joffrey dies, Tyrion's trial, Tyrion kills Tywin
- RED VIPER MFERS!!!!!!!
- UnCat
- Arya abandons the Hound, sails across the sea
- Balon Greyjoy dies
- Lysa Arryn plummet


Honestly... It's looking pretty dang good. They could milk the murder trial for hours if they wanted - there will be a lot of good Tyrell, Martell, Circe, Tyrion and Shae drama going on there.

The Yara scene tonight was pretty money too - I kind of got chills as she took to the sea. Not sure how that will play in, as I entirely expect Theon to be ignored from now on. The Kingsmoot will likely play out a lot differently than it did in the books.

Underwhelming. They missed the ball.

Wife and I said "That's it?"

[This message has been edited by techno-ag (edited 6/9/2013 10:50p).]

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Wife and I said "That's it?"

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This is the risk taken when you have something like the Red Wedding in the 2nd to last episode. I don't know what else they could have done to really hammer it down in the finale.

Worst episode of the season.

They missed an opportunity coming off the heels of such a well publicized emotional roller coaster last episode.

Should have ended with Arya looking at the coin and saying "Vaaur Morghulis"

I liked the finale. Sets up next season. I think some of you guys are too book centric for a show that I feel is going to veer further away from some of the book storylines (bc of either time,cost,clarity, etc). Watching the show and thinking about the books makes me realize how much random wandering GRRM did. I have to imagine him telling the tv guys the ultimate ending gave them a lot of insight as to what was necessary/pointless.

And for the record, I'm in the camp that thinks the Lady in Yellow is a sad/creepy shell of the proud lady we once knew.

The episode is fine, its just not a season finale.

One thing I have noticed is the best episodes are the ones where they focus on fewer storylines. I don't think this one was bad per se, though I could have done without the "Hodor" echo and the Ramsay sausage bit. They are kind of cheap humor and take away from the story. They are in real danger of overplaying Hodor and that would be a bummer. Love that guy.

So back to my point, they hit EVERY storyline in one episode. It was hard to follow even as a reader who knows the story intimately. They hit over a dozen storylines in an hour, you just can't do that effectively. I'm not even saying that's a terrible thing but it kind of sacrifices the quality of the individual episode. One of the great things about the books is GRRM wasn't afraid to go away from a storyline for a while as he focused on others. That really helps with the flow.

For instance, why not just wrap up Dany's storyline a couple weeks ago by putting her scenes from the last 2 weeks in Episode 8? It would actually be more dramatic to drive show watchers crazy thinking: What's going on with Dany?!!?! She was just getting cool! I hope they do more episodes next season with no more than 5 storylines.

Lots of added scenes tonight, some very surprising. LOVED Arya's scene. That was nails. Loved the Small Council scene. Glad they finally explained the Theon situation fully. The added stuff on the Iron Islands was very interesting. Glad they had the Ygritte/Jon scene. They needed that closure to their relationship.

Anyone else actually ok with the king in the korth scene? Didn't look cheesy to me. Also didn't look like they had cut off his head, it looked like they cut off hi wolfs head and nailed it to a plank which was somehow affixed to his back and put a bag over his head. Now that is different than the discussion when arya goes ballistic, but still though it does done well.

When they have a profile view, Robbs head was gone.

If the very last scene was Nymeria/Beric/Stoneheart it would have left much bigger impression. AND they set it up perfect for that to happen with Bran's story and the moral of the story being that the gods punish those severely who harm guests.

I liked the entire episode except for the crowdsurfing scene. Maybe if it was towards the end of the episode but not the final scene, it would have been OK, but it was so anticlimactic and the fact that we know Dany goes freaking NOWHERE over the next couple books makes it that much more disappointing.

I really wanted to see Catelyn get resurrected as the cliffhanger. Anyone else thinking we'll never get to see Stoneheart or Coldhands? Thus far, they're not essential to the story. Not sure where the Brienne story-line is going, but I suppose that unCat's existence is dependent upon Brienne's arc and where her "orders/motives" come from in regards to Jamie.

Arya scene was AWESOME, and I could literally watch a show with nothing but Tywin and Tyrion having a conversation. Look forward to Tywin during the trial. Davos was also the straight-up boobs.

The Dany scene was so meh. However, one of the the things that struck me on a re-read of ADWD is that Dany doesn't really want to be a queen, and she's not a very good one when she actually has to do the messy business of statecraft. What she wants to be - what she responds to - is being a savior. That scene did highlight that aspect. It's hard to say it was a "wasted" scene when we don't know where her story's going on-screen. But it was anti-climatic as could be.

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Should have ended with Arya looking at the coin and saying "Vaaur Morghulis"

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Should have ended with her using the coin to get on a boat.

Someone remind me what we know about Shae in the books vs. the show...

The dany scene might have been anticlimactic to us since we know her future, but all of my non-reader friends thought that scene was awesome

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Should have ended with her using the coin to get on a boat.

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wayyy too early for that, she doesn't even have needle back yet