They are clearly merging Edric Storm's character with Gendry. Smart. I'm on board with that bit of simplification.

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8 "Second Sons" May 19, 2013
King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together. Dany meets the Titan's *******. Davos demands proof from Melisandre. Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman.

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that episode title paired with the last sentence seems like a spoiler for the books

Have you guys not seen the pics of the actor as stoneheart? Looks badass.

official pics or fan photoshops?

Link a couple if official.

Looking closer at those show teasers from the end of the previous page:

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Varys meets his better

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Is this a new character or am I forgetting someone from the books?

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Melisandre pays a visit to the Riverlands

Melisandre reveals a secret to Gendry

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Big time deviation coming right there. I wonder if Melisandre and Thoros will know one another, and if she will fill the role of the tiny women who gives the Brotherhood prophecies.

Melisandre is going to the Riverlands to bring Gendry to Stannis (replacing Edric Storm plot line). Simplifies the story and gives both actors bigger roles.

[This message has been edited by aggiesouth06 (edited 4/16/2013 4:37p).]

I'm going to guess Varys's "better" is Lady Olenna.

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8 "Second Sons" May 19, 2013
King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together. Dany meets the Titan's *******. Davos demands proof from Melisandre. Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman.

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that episode title paired with the last sentence seems like a spoiler for the books

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Benjen is the third son not the second

Good point. I always forget about Brandon

Second Sons refers to the Sellsword company.

Wasn't brown ben the second sons?

Yes, Brown Ben commands the Second Sons.

Brown Ben takes over the Second Sons after Mero, the Titans *******, flees from the battle at Yunkai

Benjen isn't Coldhands. The child of the forest said he was killed "long ago." 3 years is not "long ago" for somebody that has lived over 200 years.

Night's King, maybe?

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Melisandre is going to the Riverlands to bring Gendry to Stannis (replacing Edric Storm plot line). Simplifies the story and gives both actors bigger roles.

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I think this is going be correct. Gendry's role stops at the Crossroads Inn (for the time being) in Brienne's chapter in AFFCs.

This keeps his roll going in the show.





[This message has been edited by BTKAG97 (edited 4/16/2013 6:27p).]

Coldhands being the Nights King would mean almost 8000 years, if dragons don't live that long he couldn't either

[This message has been edited by Redbaron788 (edited 4/16/2013 6:33p).]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Coldhands/Theories

Doesn't seem to be much to go on.

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The Night's King was said to be deposed, his name "wiped from the memory of man," which sounds like he was thoroughly destroyed and likely to have been burned if it was known he was consorting with the Others.

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Coldhands being the Nights King would mean almost 8000 years, if dragons don't live that long he couldn't either

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Technically he doesnt have to live 8000, Coldhands is dead. So you are arguing if a reanimated corpse could last 8000 years beyond the wall, where children of the forest, Others, wights, greenseers, giants, dead-horses, and wargs all exist.

Yes those things all exist but can you say that a reanimated corpse could roam around a frozen wilderness for 8000 years and not have some irreparable damage? Everyone has accidents, and the likelihood of this guy going that long without some serious damage, to me, is nil.

stannis will be the next nights king

BOOK IT

only if he doesn't die south of the wall.

Based on some of the upcoming plots (like the one with Gendry and Melisandre) straying so far from the books, I'm starting to worry that I will have my stories mixed up by the time book 6 comes out.

I already have them mixed up. That's why I'm re-reading them right now.

If book 6 ever does come out. GRRM is painfully slow about writing them.

[This message has been edited by techno-ag (edited 4/17/2013 8:48a).]

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Coldhands being the Nights King would mean almost 8000 years, if dragons don't live that long he couldn't either

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There is nothing in the books that says that dragons live the longest of all the creatures on the earth. Furthermore, as has been noted, Coldhands is dead, which means he doesn't really have to worry about it.

I think the Night's King is a very plausible explanation for Coldhands, I also think it's possible he's the offspring of the Night's King and the Other he took for his bride.

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Yes those things all exist but can you say that a reanimated corpse could roam around a frozen wilderness for 8000 years and not have some irreparable damage? Everyone has accidents, and the likelihood of this guy going that long without some serious damage, to me, is nil.

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I think it's pretty obvious that Others don't have the petty troubles beyond the wall that most humans have. The cold isn't an issue for him. It's possible he remained hidden for thousands of years before revealing himself as well due to some prophesy.

It's not guaranteed that Coldhands is the NK, but it's certainly foolish to rule that out because you think it's absurd. This is a place with undead zombies, magical powers, and dragons. Why couldn't some random undead guy who didn't want to be found remain hidden for a few thousand years?

Furthermore, the other possible guesses to Coldhands' identity are absurd. Benjen, Waymar Royce, and Will all died far too recently. Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow so it's pretty clear he isn't coldhands, unless he's warged into the body a la Hodor.

Even then, Coldhands would have to be a wight of some age, given the description of him.

[This message has been edited by Kampfers (edited 4/17/2013 9:48a).]

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it's certainly foolish to rule that out because you think it's absurd

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followed by:

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the other possible guesses to Coldhands' identity are absurd

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the other possible guesses to Coldhands' identity are absurd

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Guess I should have used better wording. The other current guesses simply can't be Coldhands because they don't match the description given to us in the text.

Disregarding them is different than disregarding someone who matches all the current available textual evidence just because you don't think it's possible.

I generally agree that Benjen doesn't fit the description...but I think all time is probably relative for someone like the 3 eyed crow who can essentially exist in any time he wants to.

edit: spelling

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/17/2013 10:17a).]

So the king in the north and the king beyond the wall joined forces, killed the night's king for his horrible acts, destroyed all records of him, forbid speaking his name, but left his body relatively unharmed so he could be reanimated and 'live' for thousands of years in an isolated hole north of the wall, then emerge to help Sam and Bran because...?

and Coldhands isn't a wight, or at least not a typical one of the Others, he doesn't have the blue eyes

[This message has been edited by redbaron788 (edited 4/17/2013 10:29a).]

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I generally agree that Benjen doesn't fit the description...but I think all time is probably relative for someone like the 3 eyed crow who can essentially exist in any time he wants to.

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IIRC it was the Children who told Bran that Coldhands died long ago, not the 3 eyed crow. Since they have unnaturally long lives, it would seem to give further credence to the idea that it couldn't be Benjen, as "long ago" to them would be an even longer period to most humans.

Also, they've been in hiding for thousands of years, with no one finding them (except bloodraven, I suppose), so it would seem that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for an individual like the Nights King to do the same.

Which raises a good question. How did Bloodraven/the 3 eyed crow find the CTOF? I suppose the previous greenseer found him through his dreams in much the same manner that he found Bran, and since Bloodraven was the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, I suppose he could have easily gone North of the wall in search of them.


[This message has been edited by Kampfers (edited 4/17/2013 10:29a).]

I would like it to be Benjen because it would be the least complex explanation. But that generally means it won't be with GRRM.

I generally like anything that points towards a resolution, so any convergence of storylines is a plus with me. Love the books, but really want there to be an end in sight.

So far we have no clues about Benjen, which leads me to something else. Did we ever find out what happened to Sansa's friend Jenny Poole?

Is she the one they sent to marry Ramsay?

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and Coldhands isn't a wight, or at least not a typical one of the Others, he doesn't have the blue eyes

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And he speaks.

redline - Jeyne, and yes.

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Did we ever find out what happened to Sansa's friend Jenny Poole?

Is she the one they sent to marry Ramsay?

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Have you not read Book 5?
Yes, she is masqueraded as Arya, and sent to Winterfell to marry Ramsay.



Bigger SPOILER:

If I remember correctly, she was rescued by Mance Rayder's "spearwives".