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*** Game of Thrones: Season 3 (spoilers-allowed thread) ***

140,488 Views | 2071 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by aggie93
redline248
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quote:
Have you not read Book 5?


Yes I have, but as mentioned earlier in this thread I don't remember everything. I remember Mance's spearwives rescuing the girl, but forgot her name. Or at least partially, as you might notice by my question to begin with.
Kampfers
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quote:
If I remember correctly, she was rescued by Mance Rayder's "spearwives".



Well, they helped, but all died, and Mance was "captured".

Theon was the one who actually got her out of Winterfell & they were found by Stannis.

You can read a little more about what happens to them in the TWOW preview chapters.
The Debt
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Reek eats Jeyne's tweet.
Elliot P. Campbell
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quote:
Reek eats Jeyne's tweet.


That scene was so disturbing in the book
aggie93
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I'm not that worried about Book 6 getting out, though I do worry about Book 7. Martin has already read at least 6 chapters from WoW (Tyrion, Victarion, Theon, Barristan, and 2 Arienne) and he has cut back on his appearances and other distractions compared to last year. He even came out and said when asked about the possible D&E TV series upcoming something to the effect of "As much as I am excited about that and other things my top priority is writing 3,000 more pages to finish ASOIF". Of course at the same event when pressed by a different interviewer who asked him about progress he was very cagey and eventually said, "I don't know, I'm maybe a quarter of the way through."

My real fear is A Dream of Spring simply because of his age and health. He's an overweight 64 year old that likes to have a good time and looks like he is 10 years older than that. The real key is if he gets himself in another "Mereneese Knot" of some kind or if he decides on a major change of direction. That is what really hurt the last 2 books, he tried to rush and actually cost himself more time by overthinking things. If that happens all bets are off.
aggie93
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FWIW, the books have primarily been a little over 70 chapters though AFFC was 46 and ASOS was 82. I am expecting AWOW to be 80 or so.
Mega Lops
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My biggest fear is that he will figure out A Dream of Spring is too complex and cut that up into 2 books for a total of 8 all together.

It is super nerdy, but if I think about it too much I get angry this series has been going on since 1996.

Dude needs to get to writing. His legacy will be all for nothing if he can't crank out these last 2 books. As much as I enjoy the Dunk & Egg stories, these are a two-edged sword.

[This message has been edited by 3rdCoastAg (edited 4/17/2013 11:41a).]
Deleted User
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Any of y'all think that due to the acclaim the series has garnered, and now the success of the show, that he's stressing over how to finish? ASOS was great, and AFFC rightly felt unfinished since he cut that one into two books with ADWD as the second half. AFFC and ADWD didn't capture the feel first three at all in my opinion. I'm not so much worried about his health as much as I am that he's freaking out about not knowing how to finish this and is writing a sub-par finish due to that stress.
aggie93
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He has said repeatedly he knows the ending and where the main characters end up. He has said the key is getting there and bringing the story together. I expect WoW will be a bloodbath to reduce some storylines. I may miss a couple but these are all POV characters right now that are still alive:

Stark:

Jon?
Bran
Sansa
Arya
Cat?

Lannister:

Tyrion
Jaime
Cersei

Martell:

Arienne
Areo Hotah

Targ:

Dany
Barristan
Jon Connington

Greyjoy:

Theon
Victarion
Damphair
Asha

Baratheon:

Davos
Melisandre

Other:

Samwell

I would expect at least 1/4 to 1/3rd of those to not make through WoW.
Deleted User
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Really? I had read differently Aggie93. Think I read that over message boards and GRRM seldom discusses much of anything on his blog now a days that pertains to ASoIAF, so I was still under that impression that he made it up as he wrote, creating the problem with the Knot from the last book.

I see the next book being a blood bath as well, and I'm hoping that Ned's BFF Howlandn Reed is finally introduced and sheds some light on things.
redline248
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I hate all the greyjoy POVs except Theon. why do we still need hotah?
redline248
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seriously look at all those characters and think about the page space being taken away from bran or arya
Deleted User
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You still have Briene alive as well. I enjoy Victarion's chapters, but could see a chunk of House Greyjoy getting killed and hopefully Dorne is shaved down to only one chapter unless he brings them more into fold further north. I'd also like more Arya and Bran chapters.
aggie93
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He never spills that kind of stuff on his blog because he thinks about what he is writing. In some interviews though he has let a few things slip, maybe intentionally and maybe by accident. He has said the stuff about knowing the ending several times, usually in reference to the show and how he has discussed it with D&D in case something were to happen to him. He also has spoken about it with stuff like, "It's kind of like you are taking a journey. You know you are going from New York to LA but you don't know if you might stop off in Chicago on the way or maybe get a flat tire. Sometimes you also get an idea of how you wanted to go one route as well and then you see a better way of getting there." That's why the Knot was such an issue, he had written himself in a corner and couldn't figure out how to bring the storyline back in, he just kept expanding it. I think Quentin was a victim of the "Knot", just one too many storylines.

He has said there will be no more new POV characters. My guess is there may be a couple but only to wrap up some storylines, esp in the Prologue/Epilogue where he kills someone off.

I think Jaime or Cersei or both get killed next book. Cersei's demise already has a prophecy. Personally I think Jaime finds a way to be her champion or to better yet fight UnGregor as the King's champion, that feels very Martinesque. In fact I think most of the Houses lose at least one POV. The real question is if he throws in one of the key Non POV characters to suddenly have a POV and reveal a ton of stuff such as Littlefinger, Varys, Howland Reed, Bloodraven, Euron, Rickon/Osha, or Stannis (whom I think is doomed).

Of course a Hodor chapter would be awesomeness.

Deleted User
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^ Just did a search for ASOS through DWD discussion threads to see some old TexAgs talk about the books and saw your name plastered throughout them, so I'll agree you might have a better idea about GRRM having an outline for how this thing will end. Glad to know he opened up about how he wants it to end since it sounded like at one point he wanted the series to die with him if he passed away.

Of the POV characters that you listed I also think Jaime and Cersi might both be killed, one at a minimum. I could see most of Greyjoy being killed off, Barriston from Dany's camp, one from the Dorne POV, Cat, and probably Melisandre and sadly Davos as well.
aggie93
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Ah, forgot Briene. FWIW I think she makes it to the end. If I were guessing on the folks who will die/live:


Stark:

Jon?-Comes back and makes it to the end or close to it.

Bran-Survives. What could kill him at this point?

Sansa-I think she likely survives

Arya-Seems likely to survive but who knows

Cat?-I think she goes from UnDead to Dead Dead.

Lannister:

Tyrion-Survives at least one more book
Jaime-Good chance he dies
Cersei-Really good chance she dies

Martell:

Arienne-Hard to say, probably survives as the Dorne POV

Areo Hotah-I think he dies

Targ:

Dany-Survives to the end or close to it
Barristan-Pretty sure he will die, just too noble
Jon Connington-Toast

Greyjoy: Honestly I could most if not all the Greyjoys dying. Maybe one lives, likely Asha.

Theon
Victarion
Damphair
Asha

Baratheon:

Davos- I think he dies but not in this book. He may make it though.
Melisandre-I think she dies in WoW, I also think Stannis is toast but he survives the coming battle.

Other:

Samwell-I think Samwell makes it.

Non POV characters that are going to die imo:
Littlefinger
Tommen
Myrcella
Either Varys or Illario
Rickon lives
Osha may die
Ramsay Bolton is SO going to die, as will Roose
Daddy Martell
Euron
Not sure on the Tyrells
Sweetling Robin is SOOO Toast
Not sure on Blackfish and Edmure
Wayman Manderly, though I hope he lives
Jorah Mormont
Robert Strong
Bloodraven
Jojen Reed
Not sure on Mance Rayder
redline248
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In order for M**** the frog's prophecy to come true Tommen and Myrcella have to die before Cersei.

filter makes me laugh

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 4/17/2013 1:40p).]
techno-ag
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Haven't seen much of Rickon. I always thought he could become an ace in the hole for something dramatic.
redline248
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quote:
Melisandre-I think she dies in WoW, I also think Stannis is toast but he survives the coming battle


I agree that Stannis is toast. I predict he strangles or some other way kills Melisandre first, once he realizes that all her prophecies have been misinterpreted.
Deleted User
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quote:
Of course a Hodor chapter would be awesomeness.


This will be the epilogue of the last book.
aggie93
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Stannis kind of has to be toast because he will not stop unless he wins the Iron Throne and I just don't see that happening.

Oh, and pretty much every Frey is going to die. Just can't see Martin letting them live.
redline248
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b/c they are a bunch of ass holes
AgDev01
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quote:
The real question is if he throws in one of the key Non POV characters to suddenly have a POV


Please don't let it be Patchface. I disagree on Stannis getting a POV as none of the "kings" have had a POV.

As far as Brienne goes i do thinks she lives and i hope we get to learn her relationship if any to Ser Duncan the Tall.

aggie93
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I can only see it being Stannis if it is an Epilogue/Prologue ala Kevan where he dies.

Patchface would be brutal, only slightly better than Hodor. FWIW, I REALLY hated Patchface at first but after I figured out he was a prophet I liked him. Everything he says has a purpose.
aggie93
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Oh, and my nightmare POV would be Daario. That is unless he dies at the end of it and then it would be greatness.
Kampfers
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Stark:
Jon? - who knows
Bran - will survive until the end.
Sansa - her life expectancy is tied to littlefinger at this point. I feel his big play has been made, however, which could see her dead soon.
Arya - has been building too much to not do anything
Cat? - will not have any more POVs, regardless of her survival

Lannister:
Tyrion - Not going to die, at least until the final book.
Jaime - Either dies defending cersei in the trial of 7 (thereby "killing" her) or lives to the end.
Cersei - Will die in TWOW. Likely most of the way through the book. It's not hard to kill off some children. Perhaps Jamie dies in the trial of 7 even though she lives, so she commits suicide. Who knows. I don't expect her to live though.

Martell:
Arienne - will become the primary POV for Martell/Targaryan
Areo Hotah - Seemed to be a POV of convince to introduce Martell without giving the all-knowing perspective (Doran). Will either die or just not be given any more POVs.

Targ:
Dany - Safe until ADOS.
Barristan - Eh. No way to know.
Jon Connington - replaceable due to Arienne's storyline. Will die shortly.

Greyjoy:
Theon - See Asha
Victarion - Much as I like his POV, he's a dead man walking. I expect him to be a casualty of TWOW.
Damphair - No clue what he does, but I could see him not have any more POVs yet survive.
Asha - Only one of Theon/Asha will survive. I forsee Asha sacrificing herself for the "royal blood" in place of Theon so Theon can call a new Kingsmoot and replace Euron (who thinks he is home free on the throne with Victarion & the Iron Fleet miles away).

Baratheon:
Davos - will be a critical POV in twow to tell us the story of Rickon, even if Manderly's idea doesn't pan out. Might die at the end though.
Melisandre

Other:
Samwell - Safe.

So at least 6/20 I definitely see as dead/non-POV before the end of TWOW. I wouldn't be surprised to have it be as high as 10/20 POV characters removed.

As far as Rickon is concerned I'm pretty sure Manderlay's plans are going to flop. Remember how Rickon was before he left winterfell - wild, aggressive, his direwolf was uncontrollable. His entire family was torn apart while he was a tiny child. That's gonna leave some severe emotional scars and living with cannibals on Skagos hasn't helped, I'm sure. Not saying Oosha is a bad person, I don't know how much she could have helped him. But I think he's going to be just as mental as Ramsay/Jeoffrey/the Mad King.
OnlyForNow
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I believe that's correct they rescued her and are takin her back to the wall/the camp where stannis & Jon are.
ham98
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I would really like for Manderlay to kill all the Freys and burn Casterly Rock to the ground.
RedbeardAG
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This weeks episode has the potential to be the best one to date.
Heisenberg
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non book reader with a question, who were the people that were torturing theon before he escaped?

Last i remember of him he was getting knocked out by his own men right after a speech in winterfell.
AggieSouth06
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Boltons under the command of Roose Bolton's ******* son, Ramsay.

And since you asked, Ramsay is a pure psychopath.
The Debt
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Someone asked a few pages back about the maesters and magic. I can only of the glass-candles that would make ravenry meaningless, the ability to send messages instantly.

Then again, who knows what Jacen Haqar is doing in Oldtown...spells and magics held by the maesters we have no idea about.
southtexasag
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Nevermind. I got ya.

[This message has been edited by southtexasag (edited 4/19/2013 11:39a).]
The Debt
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Page 17 has a discussion about the Citadel and magic...

No one seemed to mention the glass candles where maesters-to-be have to sit in a darkened room with them all night waiting for them to illuminate.
BTKAG97
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quote:
non book reader with a question, who were the people that were torturing theon before he escaped?

Last i remember of him he was getting knocked out by his own men right after a speech in winterfell.

To expand on what AggieSouth06 said.

Readers assumed he was handed over to the Bolton's in exchange for the ability to leave safely. In the books,all the Iron Men were slaughtered.

Given that, it is assumed that Theon was being tortured by Bolton men - which is reasonable because of the "X" Theon was strapped to and the flaying of one fingertip.

As stated, Ramsay is a psychopath and allowed Theon to escape in order for Ramsay to get some sadistic thrill in chasing down Theon - and his own men. Hopefully HBO will provide more details the next two weeks.
 
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