Not sure whether or not the Robb scene confirms (to me) Talissa is a spy, heard Jojen mention Greywater Watch, almost thought the windmill was gonna be Queenscrown but it doesn't look as though Jon/Bran paths will cross like the books, and the bear scene was good but the pacing of that song irks me for some reason

Really looking forward to next week now. Sam the Slayer finally!, Tyrion threatening to geld Joff during the reception, and the Titan's Basterd by the looks from the previews.

If they decide to include the pregnancy it would make The Blackfish defiance in Book 5 more important as he is protecting the heir to the King in the North. His escape would be even better if he had the Queen and prince/princess in his custody.

If Talisa survives the Red Wedding that's a hell of a book spoiler.

Talisa is currently with Robb, so (IMO) the only way she survives is if Robb sends her away now that he knows she's prego, or if Frey finds out and keeps her captive in order to marry one of his brood to the heir.

More than likely, though, Martin wants her killed off. TV viewers will hate Frey so much more



Over on the non-spoilers thread, they are somewhat complaining about lack of action. Boy are they going to hate everything in Mereen.

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Over on the non-spoilers thread, they are somewhat complaining about lack of action. Boy are they going to hate everything in Mereen

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They'll hate the "action" they are so desperately craving this season as well IMO

I could see the producers manufacturing more action in Mereen to keep it interesting. You'd think they would work in some of the Dany lesbian scenes soon....

I am in the corner that Talsia is 100% a Lannister spy now.

Just have the feeling, which means that Jenyne in the books is completely moot; but it validates the will theory potentially. It wouldn't surprise me that it's brought up later that he wrote it in secret with the Blackfish as his only witness.

Everyone seems upset about the time spent on Theon but to me the most frustrating sequences are with Bran. They are spending all this time on a manufactured story of how Osha doesn't like Meera or want to go North of the Wall, none of which is in the books or even really relevant or moving the story. In the meantime if you aren't a book reader you really have no idea who the Reeds are. They are just these weird kids and the boy has dreams like Bran and is trying to explain them to him.

I really want the background. They come from Greywater Watch in the Neck which is swamp land. GW actually moves. They quickly mentioned that their father is Howland Reed and he saved Ned's life but that's it. No ToJ mention. No mention that he was beside him during Robert's Rebellion or of how deep their friendship is. Not even a mention that he is a significant bannerman and a Great House level Lord. Most of all no Knight of the Laughing Tree story.

It's very frustrating how they seem to be ignoring one of the best parts of the books, that if you can understand what happened in the past you will understand the future. Moreso, it just doesn't make any sense not to. Why not talk about the Tourney of Harrenhall where SO much happened. Why not circle back to have people understand WHY Robert's Rebellion really happened and who Jon Snow's mother is? Why so little mention of Rhaegar and Lyanna? By the time they finally do try to incorporate them it is going to feel rushed and hard for show watchers to follow at all because it is all 1st Season stuff now to them. They are barely going to even remember Ned, much less his brothers, father, and so on.

agreed 93, although i wouldnt put it past D&D to make the whole "Ned might not be Jon's father" a season ending shocker/cliffhanger since they really havent even hinted at that at all in the show.

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America's destiny is not of our own choosing. We did not seek nor did we provoke an assault on our freedom and our way of life. We did not expect nor did we invite a confrontation with evil. Yet the true measure of a people's strength is how they rise to master that moment when it does arrive.

I know they have avoided any flashbacks but if they did just one I would choose the Tourney of Harrenhall. They could pull it off because all the actors were much younger so they could cast "one timers" for many. It would just be awesome and give the show watchers such a better appreciation for the whole story while being crack to the readers.

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Everyone seems upset about the time spent on Theon but to me the most frustrating sequences are with Bran. They are spending all this time on a manufactured story of how Osha doesn't like Meera or want to go North of the Wall, none of which is in the books or even really relevant or moving the story.

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I guess they had to do this because they didn't have the part with Luwin telling Osha to split the boys. Thus they have to manufacture a reason for them to part up.

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I really want the background.

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As do i, since Meera and Jojen are my two favorite "minor" characters in the book. I do think we will eventually get the background from the book. I believe writers said we will not see anymore flashback or dreams unless it is though Bran. my opinion is that is that they are holding the KotLT back to give Bran more of a story though the telling of books 4 and 5, like they are showing us Thoen's torture now.

As far as the ToJ or Harrenhall tournament i think that we eventually see that through him as well as after he meets Bloodraven. If we do get it as a flashback as most wish then it is a lot easier to hide the details in text in Ned's Dream or jojen's story to keep readers guessing versus having the visual confirmation ie Barristan. essentially if R+L=J is true or will be important they hold it off until necessary.

[This message has been edited by AgDev01 (edited 5/13/2013 10:34a).]

They are really going to have to stretch Bran's story over the next few seasons. We will get to know the Reeds over time.

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Everyone seems upset about the time spent on Theon but to me the most frustrating sequences are with Bran. They are spending all this time on a manufactured story of how Osha doesn't like Meera or want to go North of the Wall, none of which is in the books or even really relevant or moving the story.

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I guess they had to do this because they didn't have the part with Luwin telling Osha to split the boys. Thus they have to manufacture a reason for them to part up.

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I really want the background.

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As do i, since Meera and Jojen are my two favorite "minor" characters in the book. I do think we will eventually get the background from the book. I believe writers said we will not see anymore flashback or dreams unless it is though Bran. my opinion is that is that they are holding the KotLT back to give Bran more of a story though the telling of books 4 and 5, like they are showing us Thoen's torture now.

As far as the ToJ or Harrenhall tournament i think that we eventually see that through him as well as after he meets Bloodraven. If we do get this this as a flashback as most wish then it is a lot easier to hide the details in text in Ned's Dream or jojen's story to keep readers guessing versus having the visual confirmation ie Barristan. essentially if R+L=J is true or will be important they will hold it off until necessary.

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I can see that and understand it. Still, they don't really need a "reason" for the boys to split up. They split up because it would put the 2 Starks in different places and thus safer in the books which was plenty of reason. In the show this whole Meera/Osha catfight is just tiresome imo. Personally I think they are doing it to keep the Osha actress engaged in the show so as not to lose her but eventually they are going to run out of storyline regardless. She is gone after Book 2 in the books and has yet to re-appear (though it seems she is on Skaagos with Rickon awaiting Davos).

I agree they need to keep Bran's story going but he actually does some interesting stuff in the books. He meets up with Coldhands and they go through the Wall. They have to fight off various groups. He learns how to warg into Hodor. BTW, the "Hodor" moment last night was absolutely money!

I'm not sure how Bloodraven can talk about the Tourney of Harrenhall though. There are no Weirwoods there so he can't "see". I suppose they could have him watching through the 3 eyed Raven but in the books it is more believably told by Jojen.

Oh well, it's all good. I just find myself thinking that the show watchers really have no clue about the Reeds and thus are going to be more confused as things go along.

I also think the purpose of the Theon torture is for a "reveal" in the finale or around the RW that explains exactly who Ramsay is. They almost need that payoff at this point. It amazes me how most show watchers still have no clue who he is, they think he is just some random torture guy and likely a Karstark.

They also don't seem to think/know that he actually flayed his johnson!

So they teased the leaching in the preview. Do y'all think we see Balon and Robb die this season, with the viewers wondering who Malisandre's third leech was for? Won't it just be obvious that it's a matter of time until Joff bites the dust?

I dunno about the leeching. Obviously Robb is going to die this season. I'm not sure if we'll see Balon die, or whether that will simply be reported by a character on screen. Furthermore, I'm not sure whether that will happen this season or next.

But I think they'll name exactly who the leeches are for when they show it. The question will still be there in the viewers mind, just as it was in the readers - "will this do anything?" and then after the events, "did those actually have anything to do with the leeches, or was that just coincidence?"

[This message has been edited by Kampfers (edited 5/13/2013 11:37a).]

here's one to toss around. what did y'all think of the scene b/w joff and tywin? it comes across as joff being put in his place, when in the book he gives tywin the middle finger like he does everyone. setting it up for joff to pull some crazy ish and be like, you ain't the king old man.

Hodor with the line-read of the night yesterday

Joff becomes unbearable again after Robb dies. He knows other people are fighting a war for him, so he's docile now.

On another note, I've got an Episode 10 prediction for you:

The Nights Watch defeats the scout force and Ygritte dies in an emotional scene (somehow Tormund survives or isn't involved). Just as we think it's all over, there's a horn blast. Jon rushes to the top of the Wall to see thousands of wildlings bearing down. The End.

I'm really anxious to see how the Jon snow story line plays out in relation to the book events. I'm a little fuzzy on what exactly happens in A Storm of Swords, but we haven't heard any mention of the Horn of Winter yet in the show, have we? I feel like that was a HUGE topic in the book that really intensified the wildling attack on the wall.

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It's very frustrating how they seem to be ignoring one of the best parts of the books, that if you can understand what happened in the past you will understand the future. Moreso, it just doesn't make any sense not to. Why not talk about the Tourney of Harrenhall where SO much happened. Why not circle back to have people understand WHY Robert's Rebellion really happened and who Jon Snow's mother is? Why so little mention of Rhaegar and Lyanna? By the time they finally do try to incorporate them it is going to feel rushed and hard for show watchers to follow at all because it is all 1st Season stuff now to them. They are barely going to even remember Ned, much less his brothers, father, and so on.

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1. "Best part of the book" is extremely subjective. That doesn't rate anywhere near the "best" on my radar.

2. Chill-out. You have no idea how or when they're going to address all that. My guess is that they are saving it for when it comes time for the reveal, so that those who aren't book readers don't have it sniffed out years before the conclusion of the mystery, like the book readers have done.

Hell, I could see them doing an entire season on the back-story stuff and Robert's Rebellion. It would be a great way to give extra time to Martin to finish the series.

Of course what the "best parts" of the book is subjective. To me "one of the best parts" is the completeness of the story. Not only is it unpredictable but if you can read the signs deeply embedded in the story you can understand what it going to happen. That's what is ONE of MY favorite parts of the books and makes it so unusual.

I understand the show and what they are limited by, it was just an observation. My wife is a show watcher and she doesn't understand who the Reeds are at all because they have given so little backstory on them and thus she is less interested in Bran's story. That's my point. Will they fix it? I'm sure they will, I just think it is frustrating that they are instead spending most of the Bran storyline on Osha being unhappy which isn't in the books and really has no relevance to where the story is going. If you feel differently that's fine.

Actually, prophecy and foreshadowing are common fantasy tropes, it's not really anything "unique" to the SOIAF books.

With today's Internet communities, however,those clues are a lot easier to sniff out, and I think that bothers some writers (and fans, actually). I think that's why we aren't getting any of the tower of joy stuff.

Personally, I wish authors and fans alike would quit worrying about people sniffing out the big reveal. It doesn't ruin the story for me. What ruins the story, in my opinion, is when the author changes his mind and does something "different" just to throw off all the fans, which I'm scared as hell Martin is going to do.

[This message has been edited by Bendover (edited 5/13/2013 2:02p).]

Certainly prophecies and the like are common with fantasy writing, they just typically are easier to figure out. Ask 10 different readers about a prophecy in ASOIF and you often get at least 5 different answers. There are a few things that have more consensus such as R+L=J (which technically wasn't a prophecy).

I agree there is a chance Martin makes changes for the sake of doing so and that could ruin things. Hard to tell how all this ends. He has said the right things but that doesn't make me feel any more confident, esp as social as he is and as involved with his readers as he is. If he locked himself in a room to crank out the last 2 books I wouldn't worry about it but that isn't happening. It would be great if he is just able to finish at all but I put those odds at 50/50.

Another possible "show to book" spoiler is that they are introducing the Titan's ******* instead of just skipping straight to Brown Ben running the Second Sons. I assume he will resurface.

Just figured I should class up this conversation, Tormund style


[This message has been edited by riley290 (edited 5/13/2013 4:39p).]

R+L=J may not be prophesy, but with Eddard no longer dreaming, how else do you reveal it?

Howland showing up, pointing to Snow and saying "that's Ned 'bassturd'! He is really Lyanna and Raegar's." Unless it is introduced as a prophesy, or it isnt true, I doubt it will get screen time. I suppose the only way they do it as a flashback is if Tree-Bran sees the ToJ, but wouldnt that require a heartstree in Dorne?

When did Jon learn of the Wall breaker horn in the books?

I think it has already been mentioned, but to keep Bran in the story in whatever TV seasons book 4 and 5 will be, I could see them doing the flashbacks (like Robert's Rebellion or the Tourney of Harrenhall) that have seemingly been skipped over, thus far. That way the audience doesn't lose Bran in what becomes pretty limited opportunities to show him in the show.

They wouldn't need to go full on ToJ but they could have something like a conversation between Jojen and Bran where they talk about how their Dad had said that was where Howland had saved Ned's life (when they went to get Lyanna). I'm actually less annoyed with that as much as they haven't explained who the Reeds are or who the crannogmen are and how they are important (essentially as the guard of the Southern border to the North).

I think they first mentioned the Horn of Jarramund (sp?) when Jon first went into Mance's tent and he pointed to the horn.

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When did Jon learn of the Wall breaker horn in the books?

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Ygritte told him about 1/3rd into SoS (HB 341).

by the way, I think Sam has the horn of winter. Jon found a horn when he found the dragon glass cache, and gave it to Sam.

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When did Jon learn of the Wall breaker horn in the books?

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Ygritte told him about 1/3rd into SoS (HB 341).

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Was it after they scaled the wall?