There is a theory that because Jaime describes Jeyne having narrow hips as opposed to Catelyn saying she has good birthing hips that Jeyne IS pregnant and either hiding in Riverrun or escaped with the Blackfish
*** Game of Thrones: Season 3 (spoilers-allowed thread) ***
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Last: 12 yr ago by aggie93
For some reason I thought Jenye was sent off when one of the Mormonts...I really need to read the books again.
The lannisters are liege lords over the westerlys, their daughter married the guy leading an open rebellion against joffreys claim to the throne...Tywin cant let that stuff go unpunished (in the books, obviously that wouldnt mean much for the talia chick since shes not a westerosi)
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Why is the mom helping the Lannisters? Do we believe she would really have done something to cause harm/unhappiness to her daughter?
They are sworn to the Lannisters. As said, it is best if Jeyne is not pregnant by a Stark.
Jeyne is not "hiding" anywhere. She went back to the Crag after Riverrun was given up.
I know die-hards aren't happy with the Talisa/Jeyne switch, but I thought it was brilliant. A strong, realized lowborn woman that Robb slowly falls for versus some random chick that brought him a fresh bandage once and got a shot of kingly jizz in return.
It didn't upset me too much either way, but I don't know what would have been so hard about having it be Jeyne Westerling (maybe because they didn't want to get people confused about "Jeyne"s?) and just explain that it was a dumb move because she doesn't come with a massive army.
The only thing upsetting about the switch is that Jeyne was another unexpected twist that was replaced for some stupid, love, sap story.
The unexpected twists that GRRM injects in his books are what makes them enjoyable.
The unexpected twists that GRRM injects in his books are what makes them enjoyable.
Or interesting / intriguing.
They could be using Talisa as a Lannister spy, to further to story of the betrayal of the Frey's....
thoughts?
thoughts?
The spy angle is a possibility but unlikely. I don't care for the Talisa development but at least D&D know where the story is going. It makes me think it is less likely Jeyne is pregnant in the books.
I don't like Talisa for several reasons. First off, it makes Robb looks far less honorable to marry her the way he did. In the books he is injured and Jeyne nurses him to health and then he finds out about Bran and Rickon and she comforts him. He feels honor bound to marry her having taken her virginity. He also takes pride in her being from an old House with a small but strong force that is pledged to him. In the show he just gets the hots for Talisa and decides to marry her even though she is a foreigner, breaks his promises to the Freys, and she provides him nothing. I care far less about Robb in the show than in the books and feel like the RW is much more deserved.
I don't like Talisa for several reasons. First off, it makes Robb looks far less honorable to marry her the way he did. In the books he is injured and Jeyne nurses him to health and then he finds out about Bran and Rickon and she comforts him. He feels honor bound to marry her having taken her virginity. He also takes pride in her being from an old House with a small but strong force that is pledged to him. In the show he just gets the hots for Talisa and decides to marry her even though she is a foreigner, breaks his promises to the Freys, and she provides him nothing. I care far less about Robb in the show than in the books and feel like the RW is much more deserved.
You're in the minority. Robb is barely in the books. He's a much better character on the show. As is Tywin.
Tywin is just awesomely acted in the show, they picked the perfect man for that role, same with tyroin and Ned.
Other characters still being fleshed out...
Other characters still being fleshed out...
Agree completely with OnlyForNow..Charles Dance KILLS it as Tywin, just as much as Peter Dinklage owns Tyrion
Reading DWD now. Just finished an early Dany chapter where Selmy tells how he fought his way out of Kings Landing and was there in disguise when Ned was executed. He also tells her that Ned is the reason assassins weren't sent after her. I hope they move that scene up to one of the upcoming episodes. Instant character development and establishes him as a major cog in the story.
My dear, sweet brother Numsy!!!
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quote:It effectively isolates Dany from the Dorne and vice-versa. Snake-in-the-grass Uncle was betting the farm on the Dorne/Targaryen alliance so Dorne can enter the war. Now, he has to send his niece to Varys's Targaryen prince.
so much wasted time following his stupid journey just to watch him get friend zoned and then die stupidly while accomplishing absolutely nothing
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They could be using Talisa as a Lannister spy, to further to story of the betrayal of the Frey's....
That would be some pretty major master planning on the part of Tywin. The first time she shows up is in the remnants of a Lannister camp.
See. He is a cunning basterd!
Debt, in regards to the little discussion about Jamie's fighting in the show on the other thread:
Do you feel like the show unjustly made it seem as if he wasn't as truly badass as he is? In the book, he nearly got Brienne despite the conditions he was in.
Do you feel like the show unjustly made it seem as if he wasn't as truly badass as he is? In the book, he nearly got Brienne despite the conditions he was in.
The thing with Jaime is that we will never see how BA he is. Just the fights with Ned and Brienne, then we get Jaime learning southpaw.
In the show Jaime admits only 3-4 men in the Kingdom could possibly best him. The spoiler thread tried to figure out who he meant. I think they settled on Barristan and Loras being two of the highest probables and the other two are unknown (speculation of the Hound or the Mountain, but they arent agile enough for a true swordsman in the Barriston pedigree, imo).
So if you think its a coinflip between Jaime and Loras and Brienne bested Loras, maybe an atrophied Jaime does get his ass handed to him...
In the show Jaime admits only 3-4 men in the Kingdom could possibly best him. The spoiler thread tried to figure out who he meant. I think they settled on Barristan and Loras being two of the highest probables and the other two are unknown (speculation of the Hound or the Mountain, but they arent agile enough for a true swordsman in the Barriston pedigree, imo).
So if you think its a coinflip between Jaime and Loras and Brienne bested Loras, maybe an atrophied Jaime does get his ass handed to him...
I would venture Barristan, Ned (who fought him to a draw in KL before getting speared), The Mountain (pure strength) could take Jaime. I'm not sure Loras is even the best fighter of the Tyrell family in the books
Red Viper
Red viper was one of the only deatha that I was pissed about.
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It effectively isolates Dany from the Dorne and vice-versa. Snake-in-the-grass Uncle was betting the farm on the Dorne/Targaryen alliance so Dorne can enter the war. Now, he has to send his niece to Varys's Targaryen prince.
i suppose that's true. it just frustrated me because for 4.5 books, the Martells seemed to me be the one house in Westeros with a legitimate plan and ace-in-the-hole, and then that abruptly changed when dany turned Q down as she might turn away a child. i guess that's GRRM's style though, building up something to be big and then just tearing it down in an instant. normally it doesn't bother me but quentyn's death did for some reason
Oh yea forgot about Oberyn Martell...would certainly be another good choice for someone who could stand up against Jaime
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Ned (who fought him to a draw in KL before getting speared)
Ned couldn't beat Jamie. The show dramatizes that, as in reality it wouldn't be much of a contest. Remember that in the books, Ned's horse falls on him and breaks his leg. Ned is a great general/commander of men and armies, but he's not a great swordsman. His skill is good enough, but nothing special. Jamie is an extremely talented swordsman. If he fought Ned in a battle, he would skewer him. Remember that when he got captured in battle, it was only after he cut through half of Robb's guard trying to kill him and end the rebellion.
Red Viper might be able to beat Jamie but it wouldn't be anything like fighting the mountain, where he took advantage of his lumbering size. Jamie's fast.
I don't buy that the red viper could even beat jaime. Is it even said that oberyn was that great with a sword? He beat gregor because it was a bad matchup for the mountain - if he used a spear against jaime it would not at all be the same, and there's no evidence that he was a good swordsman
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Ned (who fought him to a draw in KL before getting speared)
Ned couldn't beat Jamie. The show dramatizes that, as in reality it wouldn't be much of a contest. Remember that in the books, Ned's horse falls on him and breaks his leg. Ned is a great general/commander of men and armies, but he's not a great swordsman. His skill is good enough, but nothing special. Jamie is an extremely talented swordsman. If he fought Ned in a battle, he would skewer him. Remember that when he got captured in battle, it was only after he cut through half of Robb's guard trying to kill him and end the rebellion.
Red Viper might be able to beat Jamie but it wouldn't be anything like fighting the mountain, where he took advantage of his lumbering size. Jamie's fast.
No, I dont recall him breaking his leg from his horse as I havent read GoT in a couple years, but to just say outright Jamie would shred Ned is asinine. The guys in Robbs vanguard were probably nowhere near the caliber or training that knights and noblemen like Ned and Jamie were growing up. Im not saying Ned would win, but I think he would be able to stand up to Jamie until he got worn down. As for Oberyn Martell, personal combatants choose their weapons...Jamie is great with a sword, Oberyn is supposedly unmatched with a spear...that happens to be laced with poison. If it could impede the gigantic Gregor Clegane Im pretty sure it would wreak havoc on Jamie.
Either way I bet Barristan Selmy could beat pretty much anyone in personal combat
The three knights that Jaime thought could beat him were discussed in the Season 2 threads last year. Here are my thoughts from then:
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Ser Barristan for sure. Ser Arthur Dayne, if he was still alive, would also be on the short list. Ned was supposed to be very good, capable of beating anyone on a good day with a little extra help (q.v. Ser Arthur Dayne.) Jaime respected Ned's abilities, but I don't remember Jaime regarding Ned as one of the best.
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Ser Barristan is the only one of the 3 that has been mentioned in the series. The Hound is not one of them.
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I don't think the series has emphasized how highly Jaime's sword fighting skills are regarded. He is universally acclaimed throughout Westeros as nearly unbeatable. Among living knights, only Ser Barristan (in his prime) has a similar reputation. MAYBE Ser Loras, the Knight of Flowers. Maybe. But that's it. We're talking Jedi-level badassedness here.
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Brienne later admits that she would have no hope of beating Jaime if his hands were not shackled.
what about qhorin halfhand beating jamie? or does he not count because he is dead and he has taken the black?
the death i was most pissed about is the death in the end of the last book. he was my favorite character.
the death i was most pissed about is the death in the end of the last book. he was my favorite character.
I don't believe there's any evidence that Jaime has ever heard of Quorin.
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Ned is a great general/commander of men and armies, but he's not a great swordsman. His skill is good enough, but nothing special.
I would disagree -- to a point.
In GoT, Eddard recalls the fight at the Tower of Joy. A said "to a point" because it was 7 vs 3, but those three were three of the best White Guard:
Ser Arthur Dayne, The Sword of the Morning
Ser Oswell Whent
Ser Gerold Hightower, The White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard
Eddard and Howland Reed were the only 2 to walk away.
The other five in Eddard's party were:
Martyn Cassel
Theo Wull
Ethan Glover
Ser Mark Ryswell
Lord Dustin
Man I wish they would have had a Tower of Joy flashback
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Man I wish they would have had a Tower of Joy flashback
If GRRM writes this in, the obvious choices are through the Bran and the trees or Howland Reed. Both are still reasonably likely. Although, Bran hearing his father in the trees in the opening scenes last week certainly give more credence to that theory.
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