It's not rocket science. Just stop wearing them. In my experience even places with a sign up don't actually care. The signs are largely to ward off Twitter and Yelp attacks from covid hobbyists. Let the people "just trying to be polite" realize they are becoming the minority and they'll conform to the new social norm.

yukmonkey said:

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Ol Jock 99 said:

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Don't like it? Don't go.

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The Arboretum is taxpayer funded big guy. It's my Arboretum, not the crazy libby flower nut jobs that work there.

You cool with your wife getting harassed for no reason (masks outside are ****ing stupid)?

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At this point it appears obvious he's just here to argue or pick e-fights with people on this thread. Ignore him or he'll accuse you of throwing a fit.

Ol Jock 99 said:

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I've been on this thread since the beginning. The majority of my posts, including the one that bumped it this last time, have been specifically about the virus and current levels. And I have been very critical of Judge Clay the whole time.

I do admit that I get a kick out of how triggered some of y'all covid snowflakes get over being asked to wear a mask.

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Your last sentence is short sighted a bit.

To me, i despise masks as they change how humans interact and it is almost instilling a permanent and unhealthy concern over public health and keeping all disease risk near zero.

Beyond that, my biggest concern is my kids. If we as adults can't look at the science and drop the masks and admit kids don't spread...and do it SOON...our kids will go through another year wearing masks, sitting every other seat, not being able to play, and having to learn on a computer screen. What they are doing to kids is unforgivable and it will continue as long as society (adults) maintains an inaccurate and unnecessary view on masks.

Get vaccinated and take them off.

Don't get vaccinated and you can still take them off because we are now throwing away shots so anyone that doesn't have a shot now doesn't deserve my "courtesy"...

Ok, see, that's a reasonable post. So I'll give a reasonable response.

Masks have been shown, in numerous studies, to help prevent the spread of the disease from a masked infected person to others. There is some benefit for an uninfected person to wear one, but the primary benefit is protecting others. That's the science. And it was rejected from day 1 by many, for, best I can tell, selfish reasons.

As vaccines have proliferated (good), the need for masking has decreased. But there are still folks out there that haven't been vaxxed for valid reasons. Our nanny has pretty severe autoimmune issues, and her doc is recommending that she (and others like her) hold off until they get more data on how it interacts with her drug cocktail. One example. And, while rare, vaxxed people can still get it and spread it.

Yes, the gov't has botched messaging at every turn, including at the beginning. And yes, idiots like ClayJay pretending that masks are the catch-all best solution is silly. They aren't. Public health is messy and this pandemic has shown many weak links. Including people who say (numerous example) "I will ignore a company or public spaces policies and I will LIE about my health or get angry if confronted."

Finally, the children. OUR KIDS will be fine. This will be a memory they share (like the great depression and WWII in previous generations). What does worry me is the vast education gap that is emerging between the haves and have nots. I have a 7 year old. He's fine. Getting a great education in spite of the craziness. The 7 year old that lives in my South Oak Cliff rent house? The one that I saw trying to get his 17 year old sister (who I guess dropped out) to fix his chromebook? He's not fine.

The extreme polarization between petty tyrants on the left, shuttering businesses and schools (a far more egregious action than masks) and those on the right becoming everything they mocked (rules for thee, not for me; resist; and yes, snowflake mentality) is pretty concerning too.

Now back to your regular programming.

I can report that despite signs everywhere and multiple announcements that masks are required to be on "at all times"....no one cares at Globe Life Field Texas Rangers stadium except for the old man that is captain of his elevator.

Other than that, you don't have to wear one and there is no enforcement. I'm guessing about 25% of people were sans mask. We did get kicked out of a section we didn't have tickets for but that's par for the course.

Ol Jock 99 said:

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Ok, see, that's a reasonable post. So I'll give a reasonable response.

Masks have been shown, in numerous studies, to help prevent the spread of the disease from a masked infected person to others. There is some benefit for an uninfected person to wear one, but the primary benefit is protecting others. That's the science. And it was rejected from day 1 by many, for, best I can tell, selfish reasons.

As vaccines have proliferated (good), the need for masking has decreased. But there are still folks out there that haven't been vaxxed for valid reasons. Our nanny has pretty severe autoimmune issues, and her doc is recommending that she (and others like her) hold off until they get more data on how it interacts with her drug cocktail. One example. And, while rare, vaxxed people can still get it and spread it.

Yes, the gov't has botched messaging at every turn, including at the beginning. And yes, idiots like ClayJay pretending that masks are the catch-all best solution is silly. They aren't. Public health is messy and this pandemic has shown many weak links. Including people who say (numerous example) "I will ignore a company or public spaces policies and I will LIE about my health or get angry if confronted."

Finally, the children. OUR KIDS will be fine. This will be a memory they share (like the great depression and WWII in previous generations). What does worry me is the vast education gap that is emerging between the haves and have nots. I have a 7 year old. He's fine. Getting a great education in spite of the craziness. The 7 year old that lives in my South Oak Cliff rent house? The one that I saw trying to get his 17 year old sister (who I guess dropped out) to fix his chromebook? He's not fine.

The extreme polarization between petty tyrants on the left, shuttering businesses and schools (a far more egregious action than masks) and those on the right becoming everything they mocked (rules for thee, not for me; resist; and yes, snowflake mentality) is pretty concerning too.

Now back to your regular programming.

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I appreciate your response and I do want to cover a few things:

First bold....this is SO RARE! Are we willing to completely change how kids interact and learn for another year or more (potentially being 2.5 - 3.5 years) because of such rare instances? When have we had a zero risk in life? That same auto-immune person has always lived, very unfortunately, with risks....why now should society shut down for such things? Same with cancer patients and I am sure many others with grave illnesses that are likely high risk...but..they have always been high risk.

Second bold....that is a major issue and I do think you are undercutting it. I dont worry about just my kids. I care for their peers...and the society that will be created by this group that will eventually be the leaders when we are crapping oursevles in a nursing home. We are severaly impacting a large number and its not just the south oak cliff demographic. There are kids in Plano in nice areas that their kids are literally spending more than 70% of their time effectively learning from ABC Mouse with no supplement at home. Yes, poor kids are at risk. So are "rich" or "middle income" kids. The learning environment is suffering. My wife stays at home thankfully and we can supplement and i promise she learns more at home than she does at school.

Third bold....I 100% agree on polarization. It does nobody any good. Early on both sides had people being too extreme during periods of relatively high unknowns. However, we know a LOT now but the problem is we are working towards a zero risk society and this has to stop.

It's unbelievable how many auto immune people exist once a Covid showed up. Ole Jock calling people who aren't afraid of Covid and think the risks are GREATLY exaggerated "snowflakes" is hilarious. The least afraid and concerned people in this country are the snowflakes? Despite all of your grandstanding and lecturing and rule following, you still got Covid right? How bad was it? Based on your description, it was the same as literally every other person I know that got Covid. We have a hospitalization rate of 1-5%, and we've destroyed our job market and children's education. It's in ****ing believable how stupid the response to this virus has been. Unreal. It's dumb. We need to move on.

This guy nails it

Bill Maher went off on covid fear porn and the liberal embrace of it last night. It’s phenomenal, watch it: pic.twitter.com/PDFHRWd76g

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) April 17, 2021

I think the efforts to achieve a zero-risk society are very real and will soon create a social and economic quicksand that'll take meaningful (if even possible) change to get out of. As if the litigious society we live in wasn't hobbling us already, the relatively sudden onslaught of social media, justice for <insert cause here>, cancel culture, etc. has businesses more concerned than ever and governments pandering to the public like never before. "Optics" have always been important, but never before this critical. It's a ****ing problem.

Goose said:

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I think the efforts to achieve a zero-risk society are very real and will soon create a social and economic quicksand that'll take meaningful (if even possible) change to get out of. As if the litigious society we live in wasn't hobbling us already, the relatively sudden onslaught of social media, justice for <insert cause here>, cancel culture, etc. has businesses more concerned than ever and governments pandering to the public like never before. "Optics" have always been important, but never before this critical. It's a ****ing problem.

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100%.

Zero risk is the new expectation.

Guess what...COVID goes down...wear a mask because it will keep the flu down...

I have many liberal co-workers who are great people. intelligent people. but they are grapsed by an extreme fear that i cannot understand. one of them just admitted this past week was the first week since March 2020 that they did not wipe down all their groceries. another co-worker STILL quarantines packages and mail.....

I am ok with "greater good" in that I dont want my fellow humans to suffer but at the same time we now have vaccines and have ways to get ALL necesseities delivered if you need to stay in. You can be protected WITHOUT everyone wearing masks.

I dont care about me so much but i deeply hurt inside when I see my kid going to school wearing a mask for NO REASON and even more hurt when I see kids whose parents are so stricken with fear that they make their kids wear masks on the playground and they look at their mom and ask "why"....

I'm happy to report that everyone is now washing their hands after using the restroom in the office, and when eating at a restaurant I see more people getting up to wash their hands before eating.

Bravo

Ol Jock 99 said:

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I've been on this thread since the beginning. The majority of my posts, including the one that bumped it this last time, have been specifically about the virus and current levels. And I have been very critical of Judge Clay the whole time.

I do admit that I get a kick out of how triggered some of y'all covid snowflakes get over being asked to wear a mask.

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We have more real world data that forced masks in public don't do s*** than real world data that suggests they made a big dent. Masks are political, divisive in nature, dehumanizing (I guess that's what commies want, though) and get less and less necessary by the day even if they did have the slightest benefit in a completely un-immune society. Which is debatable no matter how many times you might say it isn't. At this point, the biggest use they have is to remind people what a scary virus we have circling around ready to kill people at every last step. If you can't see the mental/psychological damage they are having on people without real world data to even show that they are helping, that's on you. This doesn't even get into children and possible development, but I won't get into that.

If anything, they may have merely given at risk people more confidence to be around others. We may very well look back and see the caused more harm to society than good. they certainly haven't helped with communal spread according to any comparison graphs across the country. It should have been a 2-3 month experiment that people should have seen right through quickly. You can say they've shown to reduce spread, but that doesn't make it true.

A true health message that might have helped would be preaching to people about time exposed, and ventilation. You know, the real culprits in preventing covid spread.

Almost no one is wearing masks properly. It's a big charade and even those wearing them are acknowledging it in how they wear them

Risk. It's all risk. Especially with a virus that is extremely weak when compared to historical pandemics.

Two things are very hilarious to me:

1. O1Jock calling anyone but him and his mask worshiping ilk the snowflakes in this scenario. That's funny. Only one group is demonstrating irrational fear.

2. 01Jock owns a rent house in Oak Cliff occupied by some, apparently, low information folks who are, in his own words, about to struggle in this world. When we discuss risk....his ownership of said rent house likely puts him at greater risk health wise, than Covid ever did. Driving to it, managing it, collecting rent, maintaining it, all combined produce far greater risk to his health than Covid ever did. But he accepts that risk, yet tries to not accept Covid risk. That is giving me a great big belly laugh.

tysker said:

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FincAg said:

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I'm happy to report that everyone is now washing their hands after using the restroom in the office, and when eating at a restaurant I see more people getting up to wash their hands before eating.

Bravo

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I've never understood the logic in this.

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How so? Was drilled from an early age to "wash up for supper".

Ol Jock 99 said:

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Ok, see, that's a reasonable post. So I'll give a reasonable response.

Masks have been shown, in numerous studies, to help prevent the spread of the disease from a masked infected person to others. There is some benefit for an uninfected person to wear one, but the primary benefit is protecting others. That's the science. And it was rejected from day 1 by many, for, best I can tell, selfish reasons.

As vaccines have proliferated (good), the need for masking has decreased. But there are still folks out there that haven't been vaxxed for valid reasons. Our nanny has pretty severe autoimmune issues, and her doc is recommending that she (and others like her) hold off until they get more data on how it interacts with her drug cocktail. One example. And, while rare, vaxxed people can still get it and spread it.

Yes, the gov't has botched messaging at every turn, including at the beginning. And yes, idiots like ClayJay pretending that masks are the catch-all best solution is silly. They aren't. Public health is messy and this pandemic has shown many weak links. Including people who say (numerous example) "I will ignore a company or public spaces policies and I will LIE about my health or get angry if confronted."

Finally, the children. OUR KIDS will be fine. This will be a memory they share (like the great depression and WWII in previous generations). What does worry me is the vast education gap that is emerging between the haves and have nots. I have a 7 year old. He's fine. Getting a great education in spite of the craziness. The 7 year old that lives in my South Oak Cliff rent house? The one that I saw trying to get his 17 year old sister (who I guess dropped out) to fix his chromebook? He's not fine.

The extreme polarization between petty tyrants on the left, shuttering businesses and schools (a far more egregious action than masks) and those on the right becoming everything they mocked (rules for thee, not for me; resist; and yes, snowflake mentality) is pretty concerning too.

Now back to your regular programming.

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The most recent study we have is a speculative study from the CDC that says it might have prevented 1% of cases and deaths. It made assumptions without actually testing masks.