The MLBPA will probably be the one paying the bills.
Astros offseason thread
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Last: 6 yr ago by spadilly
Hmm...
Quote:
Starters Jake Odorizzi of the Rays and Collin McHugh of the Astros continue to draw trade interest, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic writes, though he adds that neither is evidently close to being dealt.
With all the top free agent starters still unsigned, some teams are surely still waiting to see whether they can land a bigger fish before turning to these sturdy hurlers. Still, both are certainly accomplished enough to believe that they could be targeted as more than mere fallback options.
Quote:
All things considered, it seems clear that there's excess value in the rights to each player. Just how much and how much it'll fetch on the trade market is an open question. As Rosenthal notes, both teams are looking for something in return in dangling these established starters.
At the same time, of course, the Rays and 'Stros have reasons to move the players in question, largely due to the presence of other pitchers. In that regard, their availability has long been evident. Tampa Bay has long been said to be looking for ways to trim payroll and reallocate some resources; Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times wrote a few days ago that a trade is almost inevitable to take place at some point. In Houston's case, the club simply doesn't have an open rotation spot after dealing for Gerrit Cole earlier in the offseason.
Unless it's a significant upgrade elsewhere I like Mchugh for rotation depth a lot. Look how many starters missed time last season.
I know that's not considering the younger guys who could plug in as asarters if needed.
I know that's not considering the younger guys who could plug in as asarters if needed.
It's hard to stash a starter as rotation depth, especially if he's not good coming out of the pen. I think you get rotation depth from guys like Peacock and Devo, who have both had spot starts, or in the case of Peacock, extended stints in the rotation. You will also have guys like Martes and Paulino in the rotation at Fresno this year who could start when needed.
Trying to stick a guy in the pen who wants to start and probably could start for half the teams in baseball or more just doesn't seem like an ideal situation. I think McHugh will get traded and I think other clubs know he'll be traded. As injuries happen in Spring Training or obvious holes start to appear in rotations around the league, the return on McHugh will likely go up. We're probably getting lowballed at the moment based on our surplus of starters.
If we were are to trade McHugh, it would be nice to get the other team to take Sipp for a lesser return. Then maybe you go get a guy like Tony Watson who's still available.
Trying to stick a guy in the pen who wants to start and probably could start for half the teams in baseball or more just doesn't seem like an ideal situation. I think McHugh will get traded and I think other clubs know he'll be traded. As injuries happen in Spring Training or obvious holes start to appear in rotations around the league, the return on McHugh will likely go up. We're probably getting lowballed at the moment based on our surplus of starters.
If we were are to trade McHugh, it would be nice to get the other team to take Sipp for a lesser return. Then maybe you go get a guy like Tony Watson who's still available.
For the free agent spring training. Bo Porter is going to be the manager.
Doesn't McHugh still have an option year? Or am I just wrong on that?
shano0603 said:
For the free agent spring training. Bo Porter is going to be the manager.
Is he still working on that 15 game losing streak?
Very good points. Of course keeping him only works if he is willing to take the role. I'd just hate to give him up for practically nothing.
That's great stuff. Couldn't agree more.
I thought Yanks fans loved him though?
I thought Yanks fans loved him though?
He's a Mets fan. He's pissed he has to root for him now that he's a Met.
Kinda like if we were to sign Odor.
Kinda like if we were to sign Odor.
AgFan1999 said:
I've bought 9.
Ok. We've all bought a lot of WS gear, but I'm gonna need a rule 1 on this. How the hell do you buy 9 Astros hats?
I bought one each of the post-season hats (the navy, navy/orange bill, orange/navy bill). That worked for a while. Then it was like - BOOM - World Series is here! So I repeated the trifecta with the World Series emblem on the side. Then when they won the World Series, I repeated the trifecta again with the Champions patch on the side.
That doesn't count the various World Champs, ALCS champs, etc. along the way.
That doesn't count the various World Champs, ALCS champs, etc. along the way.
So reports are that JD Martinez is "fed" up with a 5 year, $125 million offer from the Red Sox. This crop of free agents just screams entitled if a $25 million per year offer for basically a DH (because he is not a serviceable defender) with injury history makes that player "fed up."
Probably has as much to do with Boras as it does JD.
Get ready fellas
Get ready fellas
Yeah, I don't know if I really believe that report (I believe Rosenthal was told that) but if true, hard to pinpoint where it's coming from.
This has escalated into a much larger issue than a few individual top free agents and into a prelude to 2021 collective bargaining.
This has escalated into a much larger issue than a few individual top free agents and into a prelude to 2021 collective bargaining.
I will say one thing for the players...there seem to be way too many decent/okay players out there (many that are not Boras clients) that should be in someone's spring training but they are not...
We have naturally focused in on the group of top free agents and the drama surrounding them, but there is a much bigger story here.
We have naturally focused in on the group of top free agents and the drama surrounding them, but there is a much bigger story here.
I disagree there is any more to the story than these players not understanding their true value. As a whole, this free agent crop is weak and even the better players in the group have significant flaws. It is not uncommon for the middle tier free agents to let the upper tier free agents set the market before they then agree to their deals. The problem is that the upper tier guys are not willing to accept what appears to be their true market value, so the rest of the market stays stagnant.
This is more about clubs learning how to be smart than it is the players. Contracts like those of Pujols, Miggy, etc are going to only come for the truly transcendent players. They are too limiting. Flexibility, fewer years at higher dollar amounts, and cost certainty are the new normal.
The big spenders will still spend big but the top end of the luxury tax is insanely prohibitive. The CBA structure that still involves draft pick penalties is also a huge problem if you are a mid tier non premium free agent with a draft pick attached.
The big spenders will still spend big but the top end of the luxury tax is insanely prohibitive. The CBA structure that still involves draft pick penalties is also a huge problem if you are a mid tier non premium free agent with a draft pick attached.
I like this strategyiBrad said:
It's hard to stash a starter as rotation depth, especially if he's not good coming out of the pen. I think you get rotation depth from guys like Peacock and Devo, who have both had spot starts, or in the case of Peacock, extended stints in the rotation. You will also have guys like Martes and Paulino in the rotation at Fresno this year who could start when needed.
Trying to stick a guy in the pen who wants to start and probably could start for half the teams in baseball or more just doesn't seem like an ideal situation. I think McHugh will get traded and I think other clubs know he'll be traded. As injuries happen in Spring Training or obvious holes start to appear in rotations around the league, the return on McHugh will likely go up. We're probably getting lowballed at the moment based on our surplus of starters.
If we were are to trade McHugh, it would be nice to get the other team to take Sipp for a lesser return. Then maybe you go get a guy like Tony Watson who's still available.
It'll be interesting to see how this free agent season turns out..
come to the astros for 1 year/30 million and then test the free agent market whenever there's more money.rosco511 said:
So reports are that JD Martinez is "fed" up with a 5 year, $125 million offer from the Red Sox. This crop of free agents just screams entitled if a $25 million per year offer for basically a DH (because he is not a serviceable defender) with injury history makes that player "fed up."
Source : Houston Astros have engaged in trade discussions for JT Realmuto. OF Kyle Tucker is the ask by Miami. Astros are considering. 50% chance Realmuto is dealt before opening day.
I've been wanting for us to make a move for Realmuto.
That would allow for McCann to DH some and keep him rested and we'd have our catcher for after next year when McCann walks.
However, Tucker is a steep ask for Realmuto who only has 3 years left on his contract. This would be a nice fit for a McHugh trade.
**And Yu to the Cubs for 6/126MM guaranteed and up to 150MM
That would allow for McCann to DH some and keep him rested and we'd have our catcher for after next year when McCann walks.
However, Tucker is a steep ask for Realmuto who only has 3 years left on his contract. This would be a nice fit for a McHugh trade.
**And Yu to the Cubs for 6/126MM guaranteed and up to 150MM
No way Miami takes McHugh as a centerpiece for a Realmuto trade.
Obviously
I just meant as a piece. I think he's a good combo of young and experienced and would be of some value to Miami.
I just meant as a piece. I think he's a good combo of young and experienced and would be of some value to Miami.
Verlander has a nice swing. Senior tour could be in the cards.
0 chance Tucker is in that deal.
If Yu can get that kind of deal at his age imagine what Keuchel will command next year. 6/$150MM, 6/$170MM? More?
it seems like J.D. Martinez has forgotten that he's J.D. Martinez. He's had one great year and now he thinks he's a $25MM to $30MM player worthy of a 6 or 7-year contractshano0603 said:come to the astros for 1 year/30 million and then test the free agent market whenever there's more money.rosco511 said:
So reports are that JD Martinez is "fed" up with a 5 year, $125 million offer from the Red Sox. This crop of free agents just screams entitled if a $25 million per year offer for basically a DH (because he is not a serviceable defender) with injury history makes that player "fed up."
I still blame a lot of this on Boras. I'm sure JD would have no problem signing a 5/125MM contract but Boras is in his ear trying to get top dollar.
Granted it doesn't explain all of the unsigned FAs but I think Boras is behind a lot of this slow movement with his big clients holding on and asking for ridiculous contracts.
Granted it doesn't explain all of the unsigned FAs but I think Boras is behind a lot of this slow movement with his big clients holding on and asking for ridiculous contracts.
There's a lot to blame. First, the MLBPA agreed to a CBA that put a restrictive cap on big spenders like NY and LA while allowing other teams to tank and spend as little as they want.
Second, teams just aren't going to hand out huge long-term deals to guys in their 30s anymore unless they're the elite of the elite. The data just doesn't support it as a good business decision.
Third, next year's free agent class is stellar and there are a lot of teams waiting until then to dish out the cash. And yes, agents significantly overvalued their clients this offseason and teams found other options.
There will be guys getting paid next offseason, but I guarantee there will be several suffering the same fate as the guys this year. And it's going to be that way until 2021. The MLBPA will have to try to fix this, but it might take a couple of cycles.
Two things we could see in the next CBA: 1. A salary floor for teams and 2. Higher arbitration salaries since the paydays aren't always going to be there now when players hit free agency. The question is, what will the players give up to get owners to agree? Once you wind up in a bad CBA, it's not easy to get it fixed.
Second, teams just aren't going to hand out huge long-term deals to guys in their 30s anymore unless they're the elite of the elite. The data just doesn't support it as a good business decision.
Third, next year's free agent class is stellar and there are a lot of teams waiting until then to dish out the cash. And yes, agents significantly overvalued their clients this offseason and teams found other options.
There will be guys getting paid next offseason, but I guarantee there will be several suffering the same fate as the guys this year. And it's going to be that way until 2021. The MLBPA will have to try to fix this, but it might take a couple of cycles.
Two things we could see in the next CBA: 1. A salary floor for teams and 2. Higher arbitration salaries since the paydays aren't always going to be there now when players hit free agency. The question is, what will the players give up to get owners to agree? Once you wind up in a bad CBA, it's not easy to get it fixed.
Last 4 years:
.300 AVG
.362 OBP
.574 SLUG
.936 OPS
149 OPS+
He's an elite hitter and has been for a few years now. Now he's a subpar fielder and will likely be a part time DH at a minimum. I'd be willing to pay him big money if we don't have money to spend on keeping our guys.
.300 AVG
.362 OBP
.574 SLUG
.936 OPS
149 OPS+
He's an elite hitter and has been for a few years now. Now he's a subpar fielder and will likely be a part time DH at a minimum. I'd be willing to pay him big money if we don't have money to spend on keeping our guys.
Agreed
Last year he hit like Giancarlo Stanton
Ball park certainly helped, as well as facing Mike Fiers, but he crushed last year
Last year he hit like Giancarlo Stanton
Ball park certainly helped, as well as facing Mike Fiers, but he crushed last year
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