The opinion of when to start crofab certainly exists on a continuum. The guys that run the annual venom conference in Houston start it really early based on evidence pointing to reduction in long term problems (like nerve pain).
Snake thread 2020
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zooguy96 said:
A friend got tagged by a rattlesnake (being stupid). He was picking retime mites off of the snake. He felt sorry for it. He handled venomous snakes regularly (had some copperheads and rattlesnakes at home). A fang got loose and.... 10+ vials if chrofab later....quite a high bill.
We've purchased/dispensed a little more crofab than normal this Spring...presumably because people are sheltered in place doing more outside projects.
10 vials is pretty much the minimum if the full snakebite protocol is followed including maintenance dosing (Manufacturer's protocols call for increasingly higher doses for initial control -- not going to get into my opinions on this thread)
High bill indeed... imagine if you received 20-30 vials for severe envenomation. For those interested, the treatment algorithm is public information though each facility typically develops its own protocol.
Looks pretty similar to the protocols that I've seen. Most also work with poison control when they decide to pull the trigger
Which hospital is most appropriate to transport a venomous snake bite patient to? EMS agency is works out of the Spring area.
Didn't see it asked before or mentioned. Were you wearing shoes?
Permission to use these pictures for a safety moment at work?
Found this guy in the yard and not sure what it is. Texas brown snake? Pic help please. Thanks!
https://imgur.com/pYiSLRL
Pic help:
Brown snake
Brown snake
CM
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Thanks so much!
Badace52
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Cromagnum said:
Permission to use these pictures for a safety moment at work?
Sure. I posted as a PSA.
I took a crappy pic of this little guy. Ribbon?
About 18" but interesting I took the same pic two years ago of the same species in my driveway. So it seems I've got a colony of sorts
About 18" but interesting I took the same pic two years ago of the same species in my driveway. So it seems I've got a colony of sorts
Oops that pic was Mother's Day with all the kids. The oldest is here but the boy flew in from CA and the just graduated blonde Friday came in from BCS. Getting all here as become iffy. Good day.
Here is the snake
Here is the snake
Yep ribbon...
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No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
I have seen cost to the hospital at about $3,200 per vial. I have found some hospitals charging as much as $15-20K per vial at their list price.PharmD4 said:zooguy96 said:
A friend got tagged by a rattlesnake (being stupid). He was picking retime mites off of the snake. He felt sorry for it. He handled venomous snakes regularly (had some copperheads and rattlesnakes at home). A fang got loose and.... 10+ vials if chrofab later....quite a high bill.
We've purchased/dispensed a little more crofab than normal this Spring...presumably because people are sheltered in place doing more outside projects.
10 vials is pretty much the minimum if the full snakebite protocol is followed including maintenance dosing (Manufacturer's protocols call for increasingly higher doses for initial control -- not going to get into my opinions on this thread)
High bill indeed... imagine if you received 20-30 vials for severe envenomation. For those interested, the treatment algorithm is public information though each facility typically develops its own protocol.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/04/29/717467217/summer-bummer-a-young-campers-142-938-snakebite
betadawg1 said:
Unfortunately I didn't get a photo or kill it for that matter, but I got hit in the top of the foot by an approximately 12 inch copperhead last night.
Pretty damn painful experience.
It will be one week tonight since I was bitten. Finally able to put some weight on the foot last night, but only the heel or side. Last 2 days the swelling was gone in the morning but swelled over the course of the day. The initial swelling moved up to the knee. Everywhere it was swollen it hurt to touch, now only the outside of foot and ankle hurt to touch. Nice yellow hue.
Doctors, or whoever...
Why did the swelling go up to the knee (AND why did it thankfully stop at the knee)? Is that how far the venom made it before being broken down?
Why did the swelling go up to the knee (AND why did it thankfully stop at the knee)? Is that how far the venom made it before being broken down?
Were you wearing shoes?
No the venom courses thought the entire body within a few seconds of the bite. That is why venom suction devices are completely ineffective and also why you should never try to suck venom from a wound.
The local inflammation is related to cell destruction and bleeding near the site of the bite. The cells most affected are those nearest the site of the bite and there will be some leakage of blood into the extracellular spaces in that area if the animal has a hematoxic venom.
However the entire body will suffer from the effects of the venom and if enough is injected or the particular venom is particularly toxic, bleeding and excessive clotting will both start to occur simultaneously due to a process called disseminated intravascular coagulation. Usually severe organ damage follows and then occasionally death.
We run blood tests in the ER to look for this process beginning and the results of those tests largely govern whether or not we decide to use antivenin.
The local inflammation is related to cell destruction and bleeding near the site of the bite. The cells most affected are those nearest the site of the bite and there will be some leakage of blood into the extracellular spaces in that area if the animal has a hematoxic venom.
However the entire body will suffer from the effects of the venom and if enough is injected or the particular venom is particularly toxic, bleeding and excessive clotting will both start to occur simultaneously due to a process called disseminated intravascular coagulation. Usually severe organ damage follows and then occasionally death.
We run blood tests in the ER to look for this process beginning and the results of those tests largely govern whether or not we decide to use antivenin.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Badace52 said:
No the venom courses thought the entire body within a few seconds of the bite. That is why venom suction devices are completely ineffective and also why you should never try to suck venom from a wound.
The local inflammation is related to cell destruction and bleeding near the site of the bite. The cells most affected are those nearest the site of the bite and there will be some leakage of blood into the extracellular spaces in that area if the animal has a hematoxic venom.
However the entire body will suffer from the effects of the venom and if enough is injected or the particular venom is particularly toxic, bleeding and excessive clotting will both start to occur simultaneously due to a process called disseminated intravascular coagulation. Usually severe organ damage follows and then occasionally death.
We run blood tests in the ER to look for this process beginning and the results of those tests largely govern whether or not we decide to use antivenin.
Thanks Badace! And glad you're on the mend, betadawg.
bh93 said:
Were you wearing shoes?
I wasn't.
Ok. Thank you. I wouldn't think it would go through shoes at the size you mentioned.
I've heard conflicting information whether you should take Benadryl right after a bite. Can you let us know correct protocol regarding Benadryl?
Benadryl is useful for the allergic component of the bite as it blocks histamine. It can help to decrease swelling and it is unlikely to cause any problems, but doesn't affect the hemolytic or neuropathic properties of the venom.
Edit: That got a little technical sounding. What I mean to say is don't take it thinking it will help with the envenomation but if you are somewhat allergic to snake venom (which many people are) it may have some benefit and it won't hurt. I'd do it if I were bitten and had some available.
Edit: That got a little technical sounding. What I mean to say is don't take it thinking it will help with the envenomation but if you are somewhat allergic to snake venom (which many people are) it may have some benefit and it won't hurt. I'd do it if I were bitten and had some available.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
jreedag88
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Shattered my personal copperhead record with 5 snakes caught in 40 minutes tonight.
In the minnow traps?
Nope. All caught with my snake stick walking around my front yard and up my driveway.
Perfect snake weather: dark, been wet recently, warm and humid.
And also sometime today another big chicken snake killed and tried to eat one of my young chickens. I found the dead bird after the snake had decided it was too big, and it was already stiff and cold. Must have been earlier in the afternoon when I was inside working.
Apparently my chickens aren't large enough to defend themselves yet and I need to keep them in the snakeproof enclosure and henhouse when I am not watching. If it happens again I won't be so kind if I catch the snake. I'm trying to thing of a way to rig up a bigger trap for the rat snakes. They are a bit too big for my minnow traps.
Perfect snake weather: dark, been wet recently, warm and humid.
And also sometime today another big chicken snake killed and tried to eat one of my young chickens. I found the dead bird after the snake had decided it was too big, and it was already stiff and cold. Must have been earlier in the afternoon when I was inside working.
Apparently my chickens aren't large enough to defend themselves yet and I need to keep them in the snakeproof enclosure and henhouse when I am not watching. If it happens again I won't be so kind if I catch the snake. I'm trying to thing of a way to rig up a bigger trap for the rat snakes. They are a bit too big for my minnow traps.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Catfromnowhere/comments/gk31sq/snake/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Anyone know what kind of snake this is? Found in my garage
Anyone know what kind of snake this is? Found in my garage
Pic help... maybe BBWS? Without the head in the shot, I would be reluctant to handle it.
It is N. erythrogaster. Depending where you are, it would probably be referred to as a PBWS or more likely a YBWS/blotched WS. You can see the faded blotching pattern in the pic.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Badace, you've become a badace on this thread!
Thanks y'all! We caught the snake and are going to release it away from people today. After seeing the head, PBWS confirmed.
Rat snake from this evening. He refused to move even when I was taking close up pics.
He was hoping you were going to point him in the direction of the rats or nearest chicken coup
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