Astros offseason thread

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Farmer1906
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In reply to Thriller • 3:40p, 1/17/18
AG
Thriller said:
Farmer1906 said:
So now we won the world series because of a guy that batted 6/35 for 2 RBI and 0 R scored.



Irony. To quote someone earlier on this page: "You gotta look past average"
You're right. 14 wRC+ looks a lot better.

30% K to 5% BB is on point too.

I think we should hang his number up at MMP too.
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Thriller
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3:43p, 1/17/18
AG
Except you are completely discounting any offf the field contribution.

If the guys on the team and the manger say he was a key piece, do you not believe them? Or is it that slow of a day that you just feel like digging a deeper hole in a silly argument?
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Thriller • 3:48p, 1/17/18
AG
Thriller said:
Except you are completely discounting any offf the field contribution.

If the guys on the team and the manger say he was a key piece, do you not believe them? Or is it that slow of a day that you just feel like digging a deeper hole in a silly argument?
The silly argument that I don't think its cool for him to walk the field with Bagwell & Biggio and there is no way to quantify what impact he made off the field?
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JDUB08AG
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3:52p, 1/17/18
AG
Are you still bitter about 2005? The guy was named specifically by guys on the team that won the ****ing World Series as a big contributor to their success. This isn't fan perspective. It's straight from the players mouths. Discount it all you want but he clearly mattered to them.
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Thriller
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3:52p, 1/17/18
AG
Yep, that one. You're dug in. I respect that. Maybe when he gets voted into the HOF he can walk on the field with them. Until then I guess he's just a scrub that stole money from Crane all year.

You win dude. I'll go back to lurking.
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Farmer1906
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3:57p, 1/17/18
AG
How about this? Let's say Beltran decides to unretire. He wants to play again. What are the odds he is signed by Houston? Obviously, it is a hypothetical we can never truly answer, but I doubt we find anyone on here that thinks we would.
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iBrad
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 4:15p, 1/17/18
AG
Did he hold back any knowledge that he could pass on this year? Probably not. Does a team that won the WS need the same kind of locker room presence as a team that struggled down the stretch and missed the playoffs while being their in-state rival's *****? Nope.

Carlos served his purpose. You can make a good case for the intangibles he brought to the clubhouse last year, as backed up by comments from several players and coaches. But the locker room value added in year two would be negligible, and therefore, resigning him would be a terrible decision.
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BTKAG97
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 4:32p, 1/17/18
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Thriller said:
Except you are completely discounting any offf the field contribution.

If the guys on the team and the manger say he was a key piece, do you not believe them? Or is it that slow of a day that you just feel like digging a deeper hole in a silly argument?
The silly argument that I don't think its cool for him to walk the field with Bagwell & Biggio and there is no way to quantify what impact he made off the field?
Yup, it's completely idiotic to have a future Hall of Famer walking around the field with other Hall of Famers during spring practice. Absolutely moronic!
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Marvin
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In reply to Thriller • 4:33p, 1/17/18
AG
Thriller said:
Yep, that one. You're dug in. I respect that. Maybe when he gets voted into the HOF he can walk on the field with them. Until then I guess he's just a scrub that stole money from Crane all year.

You win dude. I'll go back to lurking.

He was a blowhard earlier in this thread when I was just trying to have a discussion, too. Maybe that is just Farmer1906's schtick. I've quickly learned to ignore him. He's not interested in having a discussion of any kind on any level. I'm sure he'll quickly run back back on here and state how he is perfectly willing to have a "reasonable" discussion with anyone that brings something of merit... like agreeing with everything he pulls out of his ass.

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bullard21k
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4:38p, 1/17/18
AG
I think Gonzalez, hosmer or moustakas would all be good additions if we can snag them for a 1 or 2 year deal.

Let them platoon at DH with gattis and marwin, Fisher etc. The royals FA i would think might be a little more attractive bc they play a position more of need specifically 1B. Basically taking on the Beltran role but they can actually play the field at a non OF long jammed position.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Marvin • 4:57p, 1/17/18
AG
Says the guy who just jumped on the bandwagon after the WS.

It's okay to not share everyone's opinion on one player.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to bullard21k • 5:02p, 1/17/18
AG
All 3 would probably command longer than we would want to give, but I'd take any of them.
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shano0603
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 5:05p, 1/17/18
AG
Farmer1906 said:
shano0603 said:
BMX Bandit said:
Saw one article mention Duda as a possible pick up for lefty DH. Not a "rumor" but suggested good fit.

Thoughts?
Career .242 hitter and .217 last season. I'll pass.
You gotta see past avg
To what extent? If you want a bunch of homers, go get Cris Carter back. Unless there is some metric I'm missing, I don't want him. We have a better version of him in Gattis. He will hit in the 7-9 Hole. His job would be to get on base for the top of our lineup.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to shano0603 • 5:23p, 1/17/18
AG
shano0603 said:
Farmer1906 said:
shano0603 said:
BMX Bandit said:
Saw one article mention Duda as a possible pick up for lefty DH. Not a "rumor" but suggested good fit.

Thoughts?
Career .242 hitter and .217 last season. I'll pass.
You gotta see past avg
To what extent? If you want a bunch of homers, go get Cris Carter back. Unless there is some metric I'm missing, I don't want him. We have a better version of him in Gattis. He will hit in the 7-9 Hole. His job would be to get on base for the top of our lineup.


I'm not arguing for or against him. I don't know enough about him. But clearly he brings some value if he's a big league player and someone thinks we should sign him.

As a rule, avg alone isn't looking at a big enough picture.
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Marvin
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 5:25p, 1/17/18
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Says the guy who just jumped on the bandwagon after the WS.

It's okay to not share everyone's opinion on one player.

At least you didn't deny your behavior, so kudos for that.

Joined this specific thread afterwards- yes. Bandwagoned the Astros- my roommate and I repeatedly drove to the Astrodome from College Station back in '87 as we attempted to singlehanded stuff the all-star ballots for Billy Doran. Said this guy, so take your judgment elsewhere.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm sure Beltran will be heavily involved in baseball moving forward. With the Astros presence in Latin America, plus his VALUABLE contributions in the Houston clubhouse and dugout, it would be great to have him part of the organization. You know, the same organization that I've been following since their 1980 run...



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Farmer1906
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In reply to Marvin • 5:32p, 1/17/18
AG
Guess we'll just have to take your word for it.

You know Beltran wanted to get into coaching right? And the astros needed a bench coach. I forget, who got that job?
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3B Paul 97
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 5:35p, 1/17/18
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Beltran, to me, meant very little to this team. He had some influence helping guys out behind the scenes, but we have no idea how big or little that actually impacted the team. On the field, he was trash. In the postseason, still bad. He got his ring. He can retire a Met or Royal.

He's not in the "class of Astro" as Bidge & B****. I don't particularly care if he's hanging out with them or not.


I would not put him on the same level with what those other guys brought to the organization as a whole. However, based on the actual feedback from the young core of fielders this year, Beltran helped them by passing along knowledge of how to be a better hitter, preparer, teammate. I think he would bring value to the organization by having some of those same conversations with Tucker, Fischer, Alvarez, etc. To me it means a lot when someone's peers gush when talking about them, even when the stats aren't there. It doesn't matter that his plaque will have a different hat on it. The guy was a solid pro big leaguer.
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iBrad
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 5:53p, 1/17/18
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Guess we'll just have to take your word for it.

You know Beltran wanted to get into coaching right? And the astros needed a bench coach. I forget, who got that job?

You do know that the main reason he retired was to be back with his family in NY, right? A decision he made last summer. He probably would have turned down a job with the Astros. He did interview for the managers job with the Yankees, but aside from that, he didn't seem eager to get into coaching right away.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to iBrad • 6:26p, 1/17/18
AG
iBrad said:
Farmer1906 said:
Guess we'll just have to take your word for it.

You know Beltran wanted to get into coaching right? And the astros needed a bench coach. I forget, who got that job?

You do know that the main reason he retired was to be back with his family in NY, right? A decision he made last summer. He probably would have turned down a job with the Astros. He did interview for the managers job with the Yankees, but aside from that, he didn't seem eager to get into coaching right away.
Yep. He even mentioned taking time to be with family as a huge part of his reasoning for retiring. Like one of the first things out of his mouth during his interview after Game 7. But lets not get in the way of a good stand my ground fight.
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Farmer1906
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6:39p, 1/17/18
AG
When you can't get a job you want everyone would say that.
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Poot
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9:53p, 1/17/18
Obviously Farmer isn't big on intangibles and chemistry... Luckily our metric driven decision makers don't share that opinion.
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BarryProfit
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10:41p, 1/17/18
So we can either believe the opinion of some schmo on the interenet or literally every coach or player interviewed on the club that actually just won the World Series.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to BarryProfit • 10:50p, 1/17/18
AG
Literally?
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Bonfired
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11:34p, 1/17/18
AG
I see 50+ new posts on this thread and figure it is "OK, who'd we get/give up?" discussion...

Nope, it's an e-fight about **** gone by.

I will look at it as poster spring training for *****ing...got to get tuned up for the regular season and the inevitable melts.
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gougler08
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In reply to Bonfired • 11:44p, 1/17/18
AG
Bonfired said:
I see 50+ new posts on this thread and figure it is "OK, who'd we get/give up?" discussion...

Nope, it's an e-fight about **** gone by.

I will look at it as poster spring training for *****ing...got to get tuned up for the regular season and the inevitable melts.


Same
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mazag08
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In reply to Bonfired • 12:23a, 1/18/18
AG
Bonfired said:
I see 50+ new posts on this thread and figure it is "OK, who'd we get/give up?" discussion...

Nope, it's an e-fight about **** gone by.

I will look at it as poster spring training for *****ing...got to get tuned up for the regular season and the inevitable melts.


I stopped reading this thread after pages after pages of nonsense and no actual team talk. If you want to talk about gear you bought start a World Series gear thread.
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shano0603
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In reply to mazag08 • 12:31a, 1/18/18
AG
mazag08 said:
Bonfired said:
I see 50+ new posts on this thread and figure it is "OK, who'd we get/give up?" discussion...

Nope, it's an e-fight about **** gone by.

I will look at it as poster spring training for *****ing...got to get tuned up for the regular season and the inevitable melts.


I stopped reading this thread after pages after pages of nonsense and no actual team talk. If you want to talk about gear you bought start a World Series gear thread.

Or post on the season thread
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byfLuger41
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7:03a, 1/18/18
AG
Cole's number assignment is 45?


He will be known as Cole .45!
TO THE DROP ZONE!!!
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byfLuger41
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7:03a, 1/18/18
AG
Also, my WS DVD finally shipped!!!!



TO THE DROP ZONE!!!
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BowSowy
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7:33a, 1/18/18
AG
What a weird argument to get into
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Thriller
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In reply to BowSowy • 7:42a, 1/18/18
AG
yeah, realized that a couple of posts in and bowed out. It's like the stupid **** my kids argue about.
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Ag_07
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8:59a, 1/18/18
AG
Back to the important ish...

I really think Cole will really excel here. It's always good to see excitement, enthusiasm, and eagerness in a newly acquired player. After watching his PC I can tell he's really looking forward to pitching here and I think with working alongside JV, McCann, and Strom he'll go back to his Cy Young form in no time. A lot like what happened to JV last year.

As for what's left I think we need a LHP out of the pen and a LH bat. Addison Reed would've been really nice (especially for the 2yrs/16.75MM he got from MIN), but now I like the idea of Tony Watson.

You guys think it's possible we package McHugh and Gattis to trade for a bat then sign Lucroy as a backup to McCann?
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Farmer1906
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9:20a, 1/18/18
AG
Crane was on 97.5 this morning. I didn't listen to the entire thing, but he didn't drop anything too groundbreaking but here are few points I found interesting.

He tried to buy the Astros in '07 and involved in trying to get St Louis & San Diego before finally finalizing a deal with the Astros.

Verlander was worried about coming to Houston because of the hurricane. He thought the city was destroyed.

Marwin credited a lot of his success from Altuve pushing him.

Season tickets are over 20k so far.

He got onto Buck during a round of golf during the WS about being all about the big teams. Then the next game he said Buck said some better things about the Astros.

Not new news, but Verlander said he took his treatment before the games and not during so he could watch the game. All the other pitchers followed.

Said we probably wouldn't have landed Verlander if the deals they were working on at the deadline went through (ie Britton).
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iBrad
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In reply to Ag_07 • 9:23a, 1/18/18
AG
I would think the hardest part in that scenario would be convincing LuCroy to sign as a backup. Even a 50-50 split with McCann might be a tough sell.

But come February, you just never know. Lots of FA aren't going to be getting the deals they want. With PED use down and teams being more analytical than ever, I think the days of big contracts to guys in their early 30s are going to be fewer and farther in between. There's just too much drop off as guys are entering their mid 30s.

Guys like Springer that won't hit free agency until age 31 might never get the big long-term deal. I wonder if we'll see a change to controllable years in one of the next CBAs.
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JABQ04
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9:24a, 1/18/18
AG
Not counting today, 26 days until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training!!
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