It took me forever to remember his name! I kept thinking, I know there's another big name out there...
Astros offseason thread
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Last: 6 yr ago by spadilly
Farmer1906 said:
Trade rape
No doubt! I really like Musgrove but this was an absolute steal.
spadilly
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When I saw the trade was official on my notifications, I said "please no Whitley or Tucker, please no Whitley or Tucker" before I opened the article. This trade feels pretty good, and hopefully Cole has a bounce-back year or two in him.
Bought 28 game pack for next year...who needs money...heh
Bought 28 game pack for next year...who needs money...heh
I think we have a better shot than anyone at getting Cole turned around. You see it with almost every FA pitcher we bring in - our analytics team is top notch at tweaking pitchers for the better.
Very happy with the trade.
Quote:
Before sending Cole to Houston, the Pirates had held extensive trade talks with the New York Yankees this winter. But sources familiar with the discussions told ESPN's Jerry Crasnick that New York held the line on including prospects Gleyber Torres, Justus Sheffield, Estevan Florial or Miguel Andujar in any trade, so the Pirates quickly had to shift their attention to other potential targets. One source said New York expressed a willingness to include outfielder Clint Frazier or pitcher Chance Adams in a package deal for Cole, but not both.
Similarly, Houston prospects Forrest Whitley, Kyle Tucker, Derek Fisher and Yordan Alvarez were off the table in general manager Jeff Luhnow's discussions with Huntington, sources said. The Pirates ultimately made the determination that the Musgrove-Moran tandem was superior to the top two players offered by the Yankees and other clubs that had expressed interest in Cole.
The Pirates also have a combined 15 years of team control with Moran, Musgrove and Feliz before they're eligible for free agency, compared to the two remaining years of control they had with Cole. That was an additional factor that weighed into their decision to accept Houston's offer, a source said.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22085338/pittsburgh-pirates-trade-rhp-gerrit-cole-houston-astros
wow, this feels like highway robbery for the 'stros
Yeah, this is incredible. I really can't believe it.
agproducer said:iBrad said:
I know it doesn't seem like we lost much, but that's a damn good haul for the Pirates. I think Moran is on the verge of being a solid everyday third baseman. And they get two guys with major league experience that can battle for spots in the rotation or slot into the pen. And Jason Martin will probably be a big leaguer one day.
I agree with you, but most of those pieces don't fit into the Astros plans right now. We got a top of the line starter for some pieces that we were trying to force to fit. It's a win for both teams.
This. They were able to trade 3 pieces that are on the 40 man roster. That's big also. I know the rule 5 has already passed but that's huge to be able to clear that kind of space.
Look at it this way:
Moran is blocked by Bregman. He wasn't going to get any serious playing time. He may have had DH opportunities, but his bat is unproven at the MLB level.
Musgrove is a starter. There's no place in the rotation for him with what the Astros have. He's good enough to start in MLB. There is no point in having him waste say in the bullpen or starting in AAA.
Feliz still has untapped potential, but the Astros aren't in a place anymore where they really need to give younger pitchers opportunities, save Martes.
Martin is an unknown.
Again, Pirates got some good young pieces. They are in the position where they need to find newer, young talent. This is a win for them, and we got their ace, for two years. The Astros are in win-as-much-as-you-can mode. It also gives flexibility in the future.
Moran is blocked by Bregman. He wasn't going to get any serious playing time. He may have had DH opportunities, but his bat is unproven at the MLB level.
Musgrove is a starter. There's no place in the rotation for him with what the Astros have. He's good enough to start in MLB. There is no point in having him waste say in the bullpen or starting in AAA.
Feliz still has untapped potential, but the Astros aren't in a place anymore where they really need to give younger pitchers opportunities, save Martes.
Martin is an unknown.
Again, Pirates got some good young pieces. They are in the position where they need to find newer, young talent. This is a win for them, and we got their ace, for two years. The Astros are in win-as-much-as-you-can mode. It also gives flexibility in the future.
Forgot we also kept Fisher.
Lunhow is the man. Build the statue now.
Lunhow is the man. Build the statue now.
So, does this deal mean we are no longer pursing Yu Darvish? I'd assume so since Morton is the 5th guy.
Think back to last off season and even the deadline. We were after Gray, Cole, and to an extent Archer. At that point we thought we would have to part with a top prospects like Martes, Tucker, or Fisher
Well we went and landed Verlander without giving up either of them. Now we've landed one of our original targets in Cole without giving up either of them.
Lunhow has absolutely crushed this.
Well we went and landed Verlander without giving up either of them. Now we've landed one of our original targets in Cole without giving up either of them.
Lunhow has absolutely crushed this.
Not sure of what Lunhow's contract looks like but give him a raise. He is going to get some serious money thrown his way if we don't lock him down. He should be just as important as Altuve and Correa in regards to contract situations
So what is the future of JD Davis? I think he's gotten lost in the shuffle a bit.
He seems more like a fit with the 2015 team. HR or K. He didn't show a ton last year. He's blocked by Bregman. Not good enough to DH.
Luhnow has a supportive owner that lets him do his thing. As a GM, you have to like that. I'm sure he'll be compensated well to stick around, too.
Wish we didn't have to give up Musgrove. Really liked him, but like a poster above said there wasn't room for him in the rotation. He is going to be a stud.... BUT we got Garret freakin Cole! Now we have 3 legit aces, with Lance McCullers as a potential 4th
It is awesome to have a GM and owner on the same page and driving to win now while not mortgaging the future. Can't wait to get through this next month.
3B Paul 97 said:
It is awesome to have a GM and owner on the same page and driving to win now while not mortgaging the future. Can't wait to get through this next month.
I think you may also get a little more leeway as a GM when you bring home world championships
The guy with the best curve in baseball is likely to be the Astros #4 starter coming out of Spring training. Ridiculous!!!
If only we had an offense (oh... wait!)
If only we had an offense (oh... wait!)
So where does McHugh figure in? I don't think every starter can just automatically slot into the pen.
Sid said:
So where does McHugh figure in? I don't think every starter can just automatically slot into the pen.
I see us going with a 6 man rotation for parts of the year and I am going to assume Keuchel and/or LMJ spend some time on the DL. He and Peacock will be great long inning relievers and spot starters to help save our arms.
So what is the over/under on Musgrove needing TJ surgery?
Mr.Ackar07 said:
So what is the over/under on Musgrove needing TJ surgery?
Ouch
True but ouch
Maybe McHugh is the 5th starter? Thinking back to mid-June of last year, I think having 6-7 startes on your 25 man roster is ideal. I wouldn't expect everyone to remain healthy all year.
I love the trade for the Astros, but I don't think it's the trade rape the baseball media is making it out to be. Cole has ace potential, but he has pitched like a #3 the last 2 years and only has 2 years of control remaining. The Pirates were never going to get a bunch of top prospects for him.
Moran is likely an average 3rd baseman (maybe slightly above) over the next 5-6 years. Musgrove is a decent 3-5 starter. Feliz's role depends on how he develops but still a legitimate major league pitcher. Martin could be an everyday CF, but is likely a 4th outfielder. All of these guys come with 5-6 years of control. There is nothing sexy about the players we gave up, but 3 are major league ready and the 4th is 1-2 years away. None of these guys had a future on the Astros, but they are all legitimate MLB players over the next 5-6 years.
I love the trade for the Astros, but I don't think it's the trade rape the baseball media is making it out to be. Cole has ace potential, but he has pitched like a #3 the last 2 years and only has 2 years of control remaining. The Pirates were never going to get a bunch of top prospects for him.
Moran is likely an average 3rd baseman (maybe slightly above) over the next 5-6 years. Musgrove is a decent 3-5 starter. Feliz's role depends on how he develops but still a legitimate major league pitcher. Martin could be an everyday CF, but is likely a 4th outfielder. All of these guys come with 5-6 years of control. There is nothing sexy about the players we gave up, but 3 are major league ready and the 4th is 1-2 years away. None of these guys had a future on the Astros, but they are all legitimate MLB players over the next 5-6 years.
I agree on his use (slotting into the rotation when we get an inevitable injury), just not sure how AJ uses him (long relief) spot 6th starter to keep him fresh. I'm sure he'll figure it out. One thing I like about Cole is he has been durable. Will be nice to have some guys (he and Verlander) who should always make their starts.WelchAg said:Sid said:
So where does McHugh figure in? I don't think every starter can just automatically slot into the pen.
I see us going with a 6 man rotation for parts of the year and I am going to assume Keuchel and/or LMJ spend some time on the DL. He and Peacock will be great long inning relievers and spot starters to help save our arms.
We could easily see tandem starts with some combo of LMJ, Morton, McHugh and Peacock.
I personally love Colin M as a starter. I think he is totally underrated. I personally would love to see LMJ morph into a role similar to Devo and have Colin as the number 5 pitcher in the rotation. I feel like LMJ just isn't built to be a 200 inning a year guy. With his nasty stuff the more games he pitches in the better, but taking into account maybe only pitching an inning or less a night.
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