Yes, because you cried and got your feelings hurt that I didnt refer to you by whatever craptastic team you follow.TheAngelFlight said:How will I possibly deal with such hard hitting stuff, though?mazag08 said:No, I'll say what I want and you can deal with it snowflake.TheAngelFlight said:Take it to the rivalry thread. This thread wasn't started by a Rangers fan and half the people y'all have argued with aren't Rangers fans, either.Quote:
Trust me Rangers
And you're going to throw out the snowflake card after declaring your and the Astros' victimhood? Okay...
Astros = CHEATERS
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1481 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by Aggies2009
Thanks, I did watch that earlier and forgot. I actually put it off as I couldn't hear the sounds w/o him slowing it down like I could in the 2017 ones. I need to hear it in real time like the others before I trust it much.
That said, should it be proven as much as 2017, my inclination would be it is through technology. But, we don't have the evidence yet for 2019 like we have for 2017.
That said, should it be proven as much as 2017, my inclination would be it is through technology. But, we don't have the evidence yet for 2019 like we have for 2017.
Don't you think I would have told what team I support if that was my point?mazag08 said:Yes, because you cried and got your feelings hurt that I didnt refer to you by whatever craptastic team you follow.TheAngelFlight said:How will I possibly deal with such hard hitting stuff, though?mazag08 said:No, I'll say what I want and you can deal with it snowflake.TheAngelFlight said:Take it to the rivalry thread. This thread wasn't started by a Rangers fan and half the people y'all have argued with aren't Rangers fans, either.Quote:
Trust me Rangers
And you're going to throw out the snowflake card after declaring your and the Astros' victimhood? Okay...
I self identify as an Astros fan and my pronouns are He/Him/His.
If there is evidence of electronic cheating by the Astros I would expect some sort of punishment comparable to precedented punishments. While I acknowledge that there was monitors in the hall in 2017, which was not illegal and I also acknowledge that Fiers has made an accusation, I do not believe you punish an alleged 2-year-old crime, prior to the MLB changes and proclamation, based on the word of a previous employee(s) because there is a different employee also on record saying Astro tactics were within the rules. If there is additional physical evidence of electronic surveillance, I am open to discussing it. I also need to disclose that I was very skeptical of Kristen Blasey-Ford's story, so take it for what it's worth.
The concern that I have is JomBoy states in his video, "This is happening so fast that it has to be done with a camera" and I have seen several similar claims here. I take issue with the proclamation that it HAS to be cheating. I don't think anyone is arguing that sign stealing is part of the "game inside the game" are we? That is as old as baseball. Just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it is true. Just because I want it to be true that the Astros are playing inside the lines, doesn't make it so. If you can acknowledge my statement, then surely you can agree that just because you want it to be true that the Astros are cheating, doesn't make it so either, right?
This brings me to my point, there is an investigation and I think MLB has every desire to get it right, so I will wait for their evidence from a thorough investigation. I will not claim the Astros were not cheating, because I don't know.
In the meantime, I decided to look closer and see if my untrained eye could pick anything up on JomBoy's video. Mind you, I am no expert, but I approached this from the point of view of the dugout, is there anything Farquhar does that is visible to the dugout and not the batter? Is there anything that may actually be faster than a camera and monitor?
First, the catcher breaks the cardinal sign rule, keep your signs up and in your crotch, don't let them hang below your thighs, probably not stealable, but really bad technique for a pro.
Next, from JomBoy's video, here is when Farquhar comes to rest, every pitch as shown in the video (I hope in order, they are timestamped). My untrained eye sees what seems to be a loading up on the back leg for fast balls and a chicken wing right arm for off speed. Both of those characteristics would be very noticable from the dugout. Every offspeed pitch shows the "Bang" in the screenshot. I am not saying that is what the dugout was keying on, I am saying that is faster than a camera relayed to a monitor. There are plenty of tells and these two are not obvious to the batter perspective but very obvious to the dugout.
If there is evidence of electronic cheating by the Astros I would expect some sort of punishment comparable to precedented punishments. While I acknowledge that there was monitors in the hall in 2017, which was not illegal and I also acknowledge that Fiers has made an accusation, I do not believe you punish an alleged 2-year-old crime, prior to the MLB changes and proclamation, based on the word of a previous employee(s) because there is a different employee also on record saying Astro tactics were within the rules. If there is additional physical evidence of electronic surveillance, I am open to discussing it. I also need to disclose that I was very skeptical of Kristen Blasey-Ford's story, so take it for what it's worth.
The concern that I have is JomBoy states in his video, "This is happening so fast that it has to be done with a camera" and I have seen several similar claims here. I take issue with the proclamation that it HAS to be cheating. I don't think anyone is arguing that sign stealing is part of the "game inside the game" are we? That is as old as baseball. Just because you want something to be true, doesn't mean it is true. Just because I want it to be true that the Astros are playing inside the lines, doesn't make it so. If you can acknowledge my statement, then surely you can agree that just because you want it to be true that the Astros are cheating, doesn't make it so either, right?
This brings me to my point, there is an investigation and I think MLB has every desire to get it right, so I will wait for their evidence from a thorough investigation. I will not claim the Astros were not cheating, because I don't know.
In the meantime, I decided to look closer and see if my untrained eye could pick anything up on JomBoy's video. Mind you, I am no expert, but I approached this from the point of view of the dugout, is there anything Farquhar does that is visible to the dugout and not the batter? Is there anything that may actually be faster than a camera and monitor?
First, the catcher breaks the cardinal sign rule, keep your signs up and in your crotch, don't let them hang below your thighs, probably not stealable, but really bad technique for a pro.
Next, from JomBoy's video, here is when Farquhar comes to rest, every pitch as shown in the video (I hope in order, they are timestamped). My untrained eye sees what seems to be a loading up on the back leg for fast balls and a chicken wing right arm for off speed. Both of those characteristics would be very noticable from the dugout. Every offspeed pitch shows the "Bang" in the screenshot. I am not saying that is what the dugout was keying on, I am saying that is faster than a camera relayed to a monitor. There are plenty of tells and these two are not obvious to the batter perspective but very obvious to the dugout.
Careful there. You're using an electronic device to remember.
The guy in the long sleeve pink shirt in row 2 to the right is stealing the catchers signs, he is pointing it out to his wife multiple times - here comes the change up!
dugout was keying on Mr. Pink shirt.
dugout was keying on Mr. Pink shirt.
Whether you believe it happened, don't believe it happened, believe it's significant or don't believe it's significant...
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
Just to be clear, I believe audible signals were being used by the Astros to transfer information to the batters.Proposition Joe said:
Whether you believe it happened, don't believe it happened, believe it's significant or don't believe it's significant...
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
I do not believe sign stealing and signaling is outside the lines and have no issue with those audible cues. In fact, during the season I am on record to saying that I wish we would do random audible cues to amp up our "game inside the game". I would like to see every batter getting on first base relaying something to the 1st base coach and him signal back to the dugout, just to make people wonder what do they have?
Using electronics to gain the information is outside the lines and should be punished, beating on a trash can is funny as F to me and in no way is cheating to use said trashcan to send morse code.
That's a pretty neat explanation, that only could explain the video, but it tackles none of the other evidence.agsquirrel97 said:
Next, from JomBoy's video, here is when Farquhar comes to rest, every pitch as shown in the video (I hope in order, they are timestamped). My untrained eye sees what seems to be a loading up on the back leg for fast balls and a chicken wing right arm for off speed. Both of those characteristics would be very noticable from the dugout. Every offspeed pitch shows the "Bang" in the screenshot. I am not saying that is what the dugout was keying on, I am saying that is faster than a camera relayed to a monitor. There are plenty of tells and these two are not obvious to the batter perspective but very obvious to the dugout.
1) It doesn't explain the difference in stats for the time the accusations were levied, click on this tweet and read through the whole thread, its not just Altuve
2) Without seeing the dugout view we can't know how obvious his stance before the throw really looks.
3) If it was because he was tipping pitches to the dugout, why did the former player say they were cheating, instead of just telling the young guys to make sure they don't tip any pitches?
4) Why would the team not say the tips were being pitched by the dugout?
5) Occam's Razor
Like you said, until the investigation is finished we don't know- but there's nothing wrong with saying "this looks bad" and if it comes out they were cheating they should be punished.
agsquirrel97 said:Just to be clear, I believe audible signals were being used by the Astros to transfer information to the batters.Proposition Joe said:
Whether you believe it happened, don't believe it happened, believe it's significant or don't believe it's significant...
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
I do not believe sign stealing and signaling is outside the lines and have no issue with those audible cues. In fact, during the season I am on record to saying that I wish we would do random audible cues to amp up our "game inside the game". I would like to see every batter getting on first base relaying something to the 1st base coach and him signal back to the dugout, just to make people wonder what do they have?
Using electronics to gain the information is outside the lines and should be punished, beating on a trash can is funny as F to me and in no way is cheating to use said trashcan to send morse code.
And no one has an issue with the trash can part. Are we to believe the sources all lied about the TV while telling the truth about the bat and can?
The argument is now down to whether one believes the very logical account of multiple witnesses about the TV being used or whether they somehow stole signs another way, with no electronics and relayed that in real time to the tunnel.
Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
It's worth noting that there haven't been examples of banging on trash cans or whistles when they're on the road.ORAggieFan said:agsquirrel97 said:Just to be clear, I believe audible signals were being used by the Astros to transfer information to the batters.Proposition Joe said:
Whether you believe it happened, don't believe it happened, believe it's significant or don't believe it's significant...
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
I do not believe sign stealing and signaling is outside the lines and have no issue with those audible cues. In fact, during the season I am on record to saying that I wish we would do random audible cues to amp up our "game inside the game". I would like to see every batter getting on first base relaying something to the 1st base coach and him signal back to the dugout, just to make people wonder what do they have?
Using electronics to gain the information is outside the lines and should be punished, beating on a trash can is funny as F to me and in no way is cheating to use said trashcan to send morse code.
And no one has an issue with the trash can part. Are we to believe the sources all lied about the TV while telling the truth about the bat and can?
The argument is now down to whether one believes the very logical account of multiple witnesses about the TV being used or whether they somehow stole signs another way, with no electronics and relayed that in real time to the tunnel.
Only at home.
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
1. I'm not sure.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
2. It's possible. But there are many examples of a certain pattern. One knock being a curveball, two knocks being a changeup. That goes beyond "messing with a pitcher" and isn't a coincidence that knocks happen on offspeed pitches.
3. Tons.
Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.
Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
All what you WANT to believe.Aggies2009 said:1. I'm not sure.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
2. It's possible. But there are many examples of a certain pattern. One knock being a curveball, two knocks being a changeup. That goes beyond "messing with a pitcher" and isn't a coincidence that knocks happen on offspeed pitches.
3. Tons.
South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed. No, which is telling.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs. They had a damn good track record of only banging on it for off-speeds, so doubt it.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there? Several
No, they're facts. Video backs up everything I said. Sorry that reality isn't on your side, bud. Obnoxious ****s like you are exactly why every MLB fan outside of Houston is loving the current scandal that at the very least taints the franchise. And why everyone is hoping the hammer comes down hard. Hope that helps.Flexbone said:All what you WANT to believe.Aggies2009 said:1. I'm not sure.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
2. It's possible. But there are many examples of a certain pattern. One knock being a curveball, two knocks being a changeup. That goes beyond "messing with a pitcher" and isn't a coincidence that knocks happen on offspeed pitches.
3. Tons.
If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?lda6339 said:Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
How stupid are you?
That's a very good point. If they were picking up signs by non technical means, they wouldn't be limited to only doing it at home.Aggies2009 said:It's worth noting that there haven't been examples of banging on trash cans or whistles when they're on the road.ORAggieFan said:agsquirrel97 said:Just to be clear, I believe audible signals were being used by the Astros to transfer information to the batters.Proposition Joe said:
Whether you believe it happened, don't believe it happened, believe it's significant or don't believe it's significant...
This idea that there isn't/wasn't enough "time" before the pitch to make a difference is only being said by people who don't know how quickly decisions are made by batters at that level.
Anytime before that arm actually starts moving forward that the batter hears an indication of the pitch type will be able to be used, predominantly in situations where he is looking fastball but gets notified to sit back an extra half-second to destroy an off-speed pitch.
I do not believe sign stealing and signaling is outside the lines and have no issue with those audible cues. In fact, during the season I am on record to saying that I wish we would do random audible cues to amp up our "game inside the game". I would like to see every batter getting on first base relaying something to the 1st base coach and him signal back to the dugout, just to make people wonder what do they have?
Using electronics to gain the information is outside the lines and should be punished, beating on a trash can is funny as F to me and in no way is cheating to use said trashcan to send morse code.
And no one has an issue with the trash can part. Are we to believe the sources all lied about the TV while telling the truth about the bat and can?
The argument is now down to whether one believes the very logical account of multiple witnesses about the TV being used or whether they somehow stole signs another way, with no electronics and relayed that in real time to the tunnel.
Only at home.
Asked and answered LOLFlexbone said:If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?lda6339 said:Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
How stupid are you?
Quote:
Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
Video backs up your claim that the Astros were recognizing pitches before they were thrown? Ok. What about the use of electronic devices? Where is the support for that, champ?Aggies2009 said:No, they're facts. Video backs up everything I said. Sorry that reality isn't on your side, bud.Flexbone said:All what you WANT to believe.Aggies2009 said:1. I'm not sure.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
2. It's possible. But there are many examples of a certain pattern. One knock being a curveball, two knocks being a changeup. That goes beyond "messing with a pitcher" and isn't a coincidence that knocks happen on offspeed pitches.
3. Tons.
Sorry your team sucks.
What's my team?Flexbone said:Video backs up your claim that the Astros were recognizing pitches before they were thrown? Ok. What about the use of electronic devices? Where is the support for that, champ?Aggies2009 said:No, they're facts. Video backs up everything I said. Sorry that reality isn't on your side, bud.Flexbone said:All what you WANT to believe.Aggies2009 said:1. I'm not sure.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
2. It's possible. But there are many examples of a certain pattern. One knock being a curveball, two knocks being a changeup. That goes beyond "messing with a pitcher" and isn't a coincidence that knocks happen on offspeed pitches.
3. Tons.
Sorry your team sucks.
Again, multiple players saying it happened points that direction. The fact that it only happens at home says even more.
Flexbone said:lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
2018 World Champions - Boston Red Sox
2019 World Champions - Washington Nationals
Here are a bunch (click on tweet to see them all) including Beltran who has denied it so far.South Platte said:
Hopefully someone can address these questions:
1. Has anybody asked Gattis what was going on with the banging sound before he got the pitch? His answer might be telling or he might not even remember that at bat . . . Farquhar apparently has confirmed they noticed.
2. Is it possible that the Astros were just messing with the pitcher by banging on a trash can to make him think they were stealing signs? Shenanigans happen . . . although it's funny that a career power hitter was fouling balls off like he was Wade Boggs.
3. Why do we have a video of this random Gattis at bat in the first place?? There are 1000's of at bats during a year. Any other examples out there?
If that's the case...then why didn't you simply reply with wins are the determination of "relevance"? Because at that time, you didn't expect someone to respond to you with the fact that the Astros are the best team over that period, and thus, you decided to shift the argument to a completely subjective, undefinable basis.lda6339 said:Asked and answered LOLFlexbone said:If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?lda6339 said:Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
How stupid are you?Quote:
Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
You haven't answered this question at all. You just keep deflecting, which is usually what people that are boxed in do. I should get out and see the world? I've lived in Texas, Florida, D.C., and New York. Where have you lived?
"Over the last several years." That means "during a time period spanning X" to those who have basic reading comprehension skills. Now, tell me, which of those teams have been better than the Astros OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS? The question calls for an answer in the collective. Do you need me to draw you a picture?Proposition Joe said:Flexbone said:lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
2018 World Champions - Boston Red Sox
2019 World Champions - Washington Nationals
No hits = Fast ball
One hit = Slider
Two hits = Changeup
How did nobody notice this before?
Where did he do this?Quote:
If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?
Aggies2009 said:
No hits = Fast ball
One hit = Slider
Two hits = Changeup
How did nobody notice this before?
Do you think it's possible that the Rangers bens the rules? If they do, do you think anyone gives a *****
TheAngelFlight said:Where did he do this?Quote:
If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?
It's quoted above.
That's a great example and using a game posted by MLB account. I could close my eyes and know the pitch coming.Aggies2009 said:
No hits = Fast ball
One hit = Slider
Two hits = Changeup
How did nobody notice this before?
"LOL 1 WS = more relevant lol" is not using a wins-based stat to dispute who is more relevant. It is, rightly or wrongly, laughing at your use of a wins-based stat to dispute who is more relevant. Do you not know what "lol" means or something?Flexbone said:TheAngelFlight said:Where did he do this?Quote:
If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?
It's quoted above.
You have quite an obsession with the Rangers. I know that you're trying to reframe everything here away from the current scandal that completely ****s on everything the Astros accomplished, but the evidence is still there, no matter how much you insult other posters, the Rangers, the Yankees, the Cardinals, or whoever else. You've spent too much time on OR.Flexbone said:Aggies2009 said:
No hits = Fast ball
One hit = Slider
Two hits = Changeup
How did nobody notice this before?
Do you think it's possible that the Rangers bens the rules? If they do, do you think anyone gives a *****
As I said earlierFlexbone said:If that's the case...then why didn't you simply reply with wins are the determination of "relevance"? Because at that time, you didn't expect someone to respond to you with the fact that the Astros are the best team over that period, and thus, you decided to shift the argument to a completely subjective, undefinable basis.lda6339 said:Asked and answered LOLFlexbone said:If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?lda6339 said:Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
How stupid are you?Quote:
Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
You haven't answered this question at all. You just keep deflecting, which is usually what people that are boxed in do. I should get out and see the world? I've lived in Texas, Florida, D.C., and New York. Where have you lived?
Quote:
Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.
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