Astros = CHEATERS

100,334 Views | 1442 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by halfastros81
Aggie95
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AG
so what happened when Mookie Bets walked into the Dodgers locker room? Is he going to be vilified? He was a key part of the Red Sox who known cheaters as well.
03_Aggie
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Bunk Moreland said:

Someone actually posted that distinguishing between a fastball and a curveball isn't that beneficial? Oh my, the abject stupidity...

Here's Trout's thoughts today:
Quote:

"It was a player-driven thing. It sucks, too, because guys' careers have been affected, a lot of people lost jobs. It was tough. Me going up to the plate knowing what was coming -- it would be pretty fun up there."




He also said that which is incorrect and stupid.

And I never said there wasn't a benefit. I don't its that great of a benefit. Like I said, and that terrible Rays pitcher if we're quoting MLB players to support our opinions, knowing what's coming and hitting what's coming are two completely different things.

But I guess folks think pitchers are pitching machines where all of their pitches do the same thing so occasionally knowing a pitch is an "off speed pitch" in the middle of a pitchers wind up must drive your chances for a hit up to the 95% range.
dave94
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So knowing you're not getting a fastball doesn't reduce the pitch-types that you have to anticipate will be coming?

Add that to the information gained from scouting reports and that is a definite advantage.
LDA9336
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AG
Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

Just remind you guys, you are pathetic. You should care less about sports teams. Be like Flexbone. He obviously doesn't care. Nope, not at all.




Let me know when I'm camped out on a thread delegitimizing the Rangers 90s division titles for weeks on end. They've taken those banners down, correct?
Dude you keep getting bodied in this thread, at least go make a sock account so no one realizes its you that keeps getting dummied in front of everyone. You are the laughing stock of this thread. Everyone here is laughing at you. No one thinks what you are saying is intelligent. No one cares that you are a lawyer. Blue stars don't lie. There is no underground conspiracy of rangers fans to manipulate the Blue stars. This is plain, simple, and clear as day to everyone but Flexbone.
LDA9336
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Ervin Burrell said:

03_Aggie said:

Ervin Burrell said:

McDadeTXAggie said:

More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
Gleybar Torres and Justin Turner as well. Weird, I thought the only ones talking about it were Rangers fans?


This thread is close to surpassing the actual Rangers dedicated thread. But please continue to tell us how much they don't care about the Astros.

And half of the posts are from a Cards fan and "I don't care about pro sports or this issue at all" Flexbone.
This post wins the day lololol

You're right about Flexbone, but in my defense my Cardinals thread doesn't get much traffic haha
03_Aggie
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dave94 said:

So knowing you're not getting a fastball doesn't reduce the pitch-types that you have to anticipate will be coming?

Add that to the information gained from scouting reports and that is a definite advantage.


Again, I never said there isn't an advantage. I also said that it is more advantageous against someone like a closer because they are typically two pitch pitchers.

Eliminating a fastball but still have to account for a change up, curve, slider? Those pitches don't do the same thing so how much of advantage does it create?

Like I posted, and people conveniently ignore it, Lance McCullers, who isn't even a #1 or 2 in a rotation went at the Yankees in game 7 of the ALCS with straight curveballs for the final two innings of that game. 9-5 in that order went down with 4 Ks and two weak pop ups. But maybe the Yankees line up isn't that strong?

How often do you hear anything about stolen signs or tipping when a pitcher dominates? Just not doing those things on those days?
TarponChaser
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I think McCullers threw like 27 straight curveballs that game. When he's on it's probably the nastiest breaking ball in the game.
Agnzona
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Will Jim Crane fight back at some point or is he going to continue to be a door matt and see his property devalued long term?
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Kind of hard to fight back without looking like a jackass when you yourself found it egregious enough to fire your main two guys. Now if one wants to debate whether he should have, that's another matter. But now that he did, any talk from him minimizing the act looks pretty silly
investorAg83
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03_Aggie said:

dave94 said:

So knowing you're not getting a fastball doesn't reduce the pitch-types that you have to anticipate will be coming?

Add that to the information gained from scouting reports and that is a definite advantage.


Again, I never said there isn't an advantage. I also said that it is more advantageous against someone like a closer because they are typically two pitch pitchers.

Eliminating a fastball but still have to account for a change up, curve, slider? Those pitches don't do the same thing so how much of advantage does it create?

Like I posted, and people conveniently ignore it, Lance McCullers, who isn't even a #1 or 2 in a rotation went at the Yankees in game 7 of the ALCS with straight curveballs for the final two innings of that game. 9-5 in that order went down with 4 Ks and two weak pop ups. But maybe the Yankees line up isn't that strong?

How often do you hear anything about stolen signs or tipping when a pitcher dominates? Just not doing those things on those days?


How many times are you going to quote that stretch? No matter the outcome, the odds of success increase greatly when you can take fastballs out of the mix.

And sure, of course there's a difference between knowing and hitting. Captain obvious statement if there ever was one. But there are plenty of minor leaguers that are some of the most gifted players in the world, and they stay in the minors until they get to where they can hit a major league curveball. Once you hit the majors, you're an all star if you succeed even 30% of the time at the plate. So 70% of the time you fail, even when you guess right.

Cheating didn't guarantee hits or homers; but to suggest that it didn't increase the odds greatly by knowing a pitch wasn't a fastball (I don't care what off speed pitch it is) tells me you either know nothing about playing the game or your head is buried way too far in the sand to accept the truth. The rest of the league gets it and the only players that are sticking to the BS rhetoric are the ones under contract for a while so they don't have to worry about their perception by the rest of the league...yet. This will follow the entire team their entire careers; to new clubs and having to repair relationships with other players all the way to attempting to earn a ticket to the HoF. The Astros had a great team and while I admittedly never liked Altuve (and despise him even more now), I always liked and respected the rest of the team. Not anymore. And the rest of the league feels the same.
03_Aggie
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investorAg83 said:

03_Aggie said:

dave94 said:

So knowing you're not getting a fastball doesn't reduce the pitch-types that you have to anticipate will be coming?

Add that to the information gained from scouting reports and that is a definite advantage.


Again, I never said there isn't an advantage. I also said that it is more advantageous against someone like a closer because they are typically two pitch pitchers.

Eliminating a fastball but still have to account for a change up, curve, slider? Those pitches don't do the same thing so how much of advantage does it create?

Like I posted, and people conveniently ignore it, Lance McCullers, who isn't even a #1 or 2 in a rotation went at the Yankees in game 7 of the ALCS with straight curveballs for the final two innings of that game. 9-5 in that order went down with 4 Ks and two weak pop ups. But maybe the Yankees line up isn't that strong?

How often do you hear anything about stolen signs or tipping when a pitcher dominates? Just not doing those things on those days?


How many times are you going to quote that stretch? No matter the outcome, the odds of success increase greatly when you can take fastballs out of the mix.

And sure, of course there's a difference between knowing and hitting. Captain obvious statement if there ever was one. But there are plenty of minor leaguers that are some of the most gifted players in the world, and they stay in the minors until they get to where they can hit a major league curveball. Once you hit the majors, you're an all star if you succeed even 30% of the time at the plate. So 70% of the time you fail, even when you guess right.

Cheating didn't guarantee hits or homers; but to suggest that it didn't increase the odds greatly by knowing a pitch wasn't a fastball (I don't care what off speed pitch it is) tells me you either know nothing about playing the game or your head is buried way too far in the sand to accept the truth. The rest of the league gets it and the only players that are sticking to the BS rhetoric are the ones under contract for a while so they don't have to worry about their perception by the rest of the league...yet. This will follow the entire team their entire careers; to new clubs and having to repair relationships with other players all the way to attempting to earn a ticket to the HoF. The Astros had a great team and while I admittedly never liked Altuve (and despise him even more now), I always liked and respected the rest of the team. Not anymore. And the rest of the league feels the same.


Nothing like claiming baseball knowledge superiority and then making that claim. In case you missed the news, the Dodgers traded for Mookie Betts and David Price. Two guys that played on the 2017 Red Sox, who were busted for cheating, and the 2018 Red Sox, who boat raced the Dodgers in the WS and are currently under investigation for cheating.

The A's still have Fiers and are sticking up for Tony Kemp and saying he wasn't a user of the scheme.

Twins aren't cutting/trading Marwin.

Yankees still holding on to Cole.

White Sox haven't let go of Keuchel.

Pretty sure the Rangers just signed a player from the 2019 team. Guy even had a pretty strong WS in 2019.

Not sure why you despise Altuve more now, outside of your being buried way too far in the sand to accept the truth.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Another thing that looks silly is saying it didn't impact the post-season outcome when they played in a series that went 7 games and included a 13-12 win at home in extra innings and another 2 run win at home. If you want to debate if it could have, have at it. But GTFO with Crane saying it didn't. That is laughable horse *****
annie88
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Lt. Joe Bookman said:

annie88 said:

I've had enough of this *****

So overblown.

Those who ate the Astros and don't want to support them **** off.

Those who do, a new season approaches.

Get the **** over it.


You may not want to tune in this season then. It's not going away.
I'm not going away either.
Flexbone
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DannyDuberstein said:

Another thing that looks silly is saying it didn't impact the post-season outcome when they played in a series that went 7 games and included a 13-12 win at home in extra innings and another 2 run win at home. If you want to debate if it could have, have at it. But GTFO with Crane saying it didn't. That is laughable horse *****


Yeah...ok. Their offense really went in the ****ter after that season after they'd stopped.

We know you need to believe the title isn't real. We know that's your blankey.
ac04
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astros fans wishing this would go away are in for a long, rough season. deflategate was a story for like 18 months and that was nothing compared to this. this story is going to follow this team around for years.
Agnzona
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Debating the nuts and bolts is meaningless. This is a PR battle that could ruin the franchise. You have to fight fire with fire.
Flexbone
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lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

Just remind you guys, you are pathetic. You should care less about sports teams. Be like Flexbone. He obviously doesn't care. Nope, not at all.




Let me know when I'm camped out on a thread delegitimizing the Rangers 90s division titles for weeks on end. They've taken those banners down, correct?
Dude you keep getting bodied in this thread, at least go make a sock account so no one realizes its you that keeps getting dummied in front of everyone. You are the laughing stock of this thread. Everyone here is laughing at you. No one thinks what you are saying is intelligent. No one cares that you are a lawyer. Blue stars don't lie. There is no underground conspiracy of rangers fans to manipulate the Blue stars. This is plain, simple, and clear as day to everyone but Flexbone.


Blue stars don't lie? Wow. Then I guess I'm pretty good at this whole thing considering how many I've received over the years. Take a look, you unbelievable geek.

I'm getting "owned" in true TexAgs fashion....by someone in the opposition claiming it's so. Oh no, what will I do?
DallasAg 94
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03_Aggie
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Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.
cc10106
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Harold Reynolds owned millions of idiots today, including some in this thread.
Fumbleruski
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Quote:

Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.

We cannot, in any way shape or form, bring logic and reasoned analysis into this discussion. What we need to do is trust the words of Cody Bellinger who has devoted countless hours to reading MLB's investigation reports on the issue and looking at all of the facts and then gracing us with his super informed opinion that's lauded as 100% accurate by the social media mob/baseball media.
investorAg83
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03_Aggie said:

Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.


I don't listen to Reynolds opinion on nearly anything regarding the game anymore...the fact that you're leaning on his 'analysis' should embarrass you. Lol

And all he did was talk about an AB.
03_Aggie
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Fumbleruski said:

Quote:

Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.

We cannot, in any way shape or form, bring logic and reasoned analysis into this discussion. What we need to do is trust the words of Cody Bellinger who has devoted countless hours to reading MLB's investigation reports on the issue and looking at all of the facts and then gracing us with his super informed opinion that's lauded as 100% accurate by the social media mob/baseball media.


No, we need to rely on the superior baseball knowledge of Investorag and DannyD. We should feel oh so privileged they are willing to share their baseball knowledge with us plebs.
Slamn Sharpe
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03_Aggie said:

Ervin Burrell said:

McDadeTXAggie said:

More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
Gleybar Torres and Justin Turner as well. Weird, I thought the only ones talking about it were Rangers fans?


This thread is close to surpassing the actual Rangers dedicated thread. But please continue to tell us how much they don't care about the Astros.



Astros cheating has made the front page of espn every day. Now with intentional HBP story
Keeper of The Spirits
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MAT
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This is becoming so ridiculous that using a pro wrestling analogy makes sense.

https://houston.sportsmap.com/bleep-it-go-full-heel-turn

...and Josh Reddick would have "the dirtiest player in the game" in his corner.
investorAg83
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AG
03_Aggie said:

Fumbleruski said:

Quote:

Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.

We cannot, in any way shape or form, bring logic and reasoned analysis into this discussion. What we need to do is trust the words of Cody Bellinger who has devoted countless hours to reading MLB's investigation reports on the issue and looking at all of the facts and then gracing us with his super informed opinion that's lauded as 100% accurate by the social media mob/baseball media.


No, we need to rely on the superior baseball knowledge of Investorag and DannyD. We should feel oh so privileged they are willing to share their baseball knowledge with us plebs.


Do I think I know more about baseball than people on here, HELLLLLL no.

The fact you think knowing a breaking ball is coming 'isn't all that beneficial' says you should sit this thread out, though. At least until you can put a rational idea together. You keep wanting evidence to suggest otherwise? YOUR TEAM CHEATED THEIR WAY TO A TITLE BY KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING.
Flexbone
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Another day, another 24 hours of braided belt wearing Ranger fans camped out on this thread to make them feel better about how ****ty the team they live vicariously through us.
Flexbone
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investorAg83 said:

03_Aggie said:

Fumbleruski said:

Quote:

Whatever you do, don't watch Harold Reynolds' comments/analysis from today.

We cannot, in any way shape or form, bring logic and reasoned analysis into this discussion. What we need to do is trust the words of Cody Bellinger who has devoted countless hours to reading MLB's investigation reports on the issue and looking at all of the facts and then gracing us with his super informed opinion that's lauded as 100% accurate by the social media mob/baseball media.


No, we need to rely on the superior baseball knowledge of Investorag and DannyD. We should feel oh so privileged they are willing to share their baseball knowledge with us plebs.


Do I think I know more about baseball than people on here, HELLLLLL no.

The fact you think knowing a breaking ball is coming 'isn't all that beneficial' says you should sit this thread out, though. At least until you can put a rational idea together. You keep wanting evidence to suggest otherwise? YOUR TEAM CHEATED THEIR WAY TO A TITLE BY KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING.


And performed even better when they didn't. And we're doing the exact same thing their competition on the way to said title was doing.
SquirrellyDan
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AG
Quote:

The Red Sox investigation and report will be dropping any day now. They parted ways with manager Alex Cora. The Mets fired their manager Carlos Beltran as well. Both guys were with the Astros in 2017 and spearheaded the sign stealing. Beltran was with the Yankees before coming to the Astros. He told them they were behind the times when it came to sign stealing. Chris Young admitted he brought the use of an Apple Watch to the Red Sox after learn after learning it from the Yankees. Both teams were fined an undisclosed amount in 2017. That info was totally lost on me. I needed to use my Google machine. Why? Because there was very little to no coverage of it. The media, and MLB, probably didn't want to expose the two most popular teams in the league for cheating. Where was all this energy back then?
MLB is making an example out of the Astros. They didn't seem to mind as much when the Red Sox and Yankees did it repeatedly in the past. No investigation, just a fine. No 24 hour coverage and updates about enraged fans.

Manfred pretty much said as much when he said the public investigation was punishment. Why no public investigation of other teams? Because since Fiers opened his mouth, they had to do something and someone had to take the fall. So here we are, a favorite to win again and with a target on our backs. No prob, bring it.
ac04
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"the MLB is being unfair to the astros" is an awesome take
twilly
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AG
ac04 said:

"the MLB is being unfair to the astros" is an awesome take
Exactly. The Astros are the victim here.
03_Aggie
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ac04 said:

"the MLB is being unfair to the astros" is an awesome take


It's a thread full of awesome takes from both sides. What's one more?
SquirrellyDan
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AG
ac04 said:

"the MLB is being unfair to the astros" is an awesome take
Is that your take? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I was just pointing out differences and how silly all the righteous indignation is. But if you think it's unfair, good for you.
SquirrellyDan
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AG
twilly said:

ac04 said:

"the MLB is being unfair to the astros" is an awesome take
Exactly. The Astros are the victim here.
I don't think so. We won in 2017, lost game 7 of WS in 2019, and are among the favorites to win again. If that's being a 'victim,' the rest of the league should be so lucky.
 
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