Astros = CHEATERS

100,321 Views | 1442 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by halfastros81
03_Aggie
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Aggies2009 said:

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1321885/amp

This didn't age well.

"It's not about gamesmanship anymore. It used to be: 'Hey, if you can get my signs, good for you.' In the past, if a guy on second (base) was able to decipher it on a few pitches, I guess that was kind of part of the game," Verlander said, according to Evan Woodberry of MLive. "I think it's a different level now. It's not good."


What doesn't age well? Congrats on posting an article further proving that it was rampant in baseball and was not solely employed by the Astros.

That interview was when he was with the Tigers and was in the context of one area that was impacting the pace of games.
MaxPower
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94chem said:

lda6339 said:

03_Aggie said:

Quote:

Have you ever written a post defending your team without deflecting to another team? Have you noticed you have very few stars in this thread? I'd wager its because stars are rewarded to those who actually contribute to the discussion.


Setting aside the lameness of blue star smack, you'd be wrong. Any anti Astros statement gets starred by the bitter Rangers' blue star brigade.
Ah yes, I forgot about the vast blue star conspiracy being promulgated by Rangers fans. My apologies.


.....Need some help from my teen daughter...is this where I say OK Boomer?

What exactly are you offering here? Such an odd suggestion.
Aggies2009
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03_Aggie said:

Aggies2009 said:

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1321885/amp

This didn't age well.

"It's not about gamesmanship anymore. It used to be: 'Hey, if you can get my signs, good for you.' In the past, if a guy on second (base) was able to decipher it on a few pitches, I guess that was kind of part of the game," Verlander said, according to Evan Woodberry of MLive. "I think it's a different level now. It's not good."


What doesn't age well? Congrats on posting an article further proving that it was rampant in baseball and was not solely employed by the Astros.

That interview was when he was with the Tigers and was in the context of one area that was impacting the pace of games.
Yeaah, see the thing is today when he said he knew of it and "should've done more", you'd have expected him to have done more, the way he thumped his chest about being full of integrity in the years before 2017. Hth
03_Aggie
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Nowhere in that article did he thump his chest about the integrity of the game.

HTH.
MaxPower
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Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?
SquirrellyDan
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Aggies2009 said:

03_Aggie said:

Aggies2009 said:

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1321885/amp

This didn't age well.

"It's not about gamesmanship anymore. It used to be: 'Hey, if you can get my signs, good for you.' In the past, if a guy on second (base) was able to decipher it on a few pitches, I guess that was kind of part of the game," Verlander said, according to Evan Woodberry of MLive. "I think it's a different level now. It's not good."


What doesn't age well? Congrats on posting an article further proving that it was rampant in baseball and was not solely employed by the Astros.

That interview was when he was with the Tigers and was in the context of one area that was impacting the pace of games.
Yeaah, see the thing is today when he said he knew of it and "should've done more", you'd have expected him to have done more, the way he thumped his chest about being full of integrity in the years before 2017. Hth
You're not very bright if you think a pitcher, any pitcher, is going to call for the batters on his team to stop doing something that he knew many other teams were doing. If you haven't realized it yet, the 'apologies' are forced and they don't mean it. They're doing it for the owner, and because the owner thinks it's the best way to move forward.

Don't want to upset you even more, but you know....facts.
safety guy
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If people want morality and total integrity, they should not watch pro or big time college sports.
Bones08
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I really hope if nothing else more happens that this leads to Manfred eventually getting the boot as commish.

He's shown himself to spineless in handling this matter in the years prior to this blowing up - practically ignoring all complaints over the years as well as being spineless in his punishments which to me still don't serve the least bit of a deterrent to prevent something like this from occurring in the future.
Aggies2009
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Bones08 said:

I really hope if nothing else more happens that this leads to Manfred eventually getting the boot as commish.

He's shown himself to spineless in handling this matter in the years prior to this blowing up - practically ignoring all complaints over the years as well as being spineless in his punishments which to me still don't serve the least bit of a deterrent to prevent something like this from occurring in the future.
Pretty much. All the stupid stuff like the playoff proposal recently... Merely a smokescreen for this stuff, hoping it all goes away.

Why does it seem like every sports league for the past 30-40 years have hired incompetent commissioners?!
Danny Vermin
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This is absolutely more disgraceful than what the Black Sox did by far. The "title " needs to be stripped before the season starts.
DannyDuberstein
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MaxPower said:

Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?


LOL
SquirrellyDan
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AG
Danny Vermin said:

This is absolutely more disgraceful than what the Black Sox did by far. The "title " needs to be stripped before the season starts.


It won't be, but keep your head up! You get to watch another run at another WS for the stros.
rgag12
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SquirrellyDan said:

Danny Vermin said:

This is absolutely more disgraceful than what the Black Sox did by far. The "title " needs to be stripped before the season starts.


It won't be, but keep your head up! You get to watch another run at another WS for the stros.


They can't cheat this year so I bet not
irish pete ag06
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Danny Vermin said:

This is absolutely more disgraceful than what the Black Sox did by far. The "title " needs to be stripped before the season starts.


Hey Vermin... care to comment?

https://texags.com/forums/53/topics/3089664/replies/55840233#55840233
saltydog13
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rgag12 said:

SquirrellyDan said:

Danny Vermin said:

This is absolutely more disgraceful than what the Black Sox did by far. The "title " needs to be stripped before the season starts.


It won't be, but keep your head up! You get to watch another run at another WS for the stros.


They can't cheat this year so I bet not
dave94
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AG
Username checks out
saltydog13
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Nah. Just tired of trolls who have no clue spouting off. Edited though as it isn't worth it
agproducer
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MaxPower said:

Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?


Blue parachute for you, sir. It's about perspective.
DannyDuberstein
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MAT
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As dumb as the Astros were to use their sign stealing scam, how dumb does the opposition have to be to not just get there own damn trash can and bang on it before every pitch?
LDA9336
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MAT said:

As dumb as the Astros were to use their sign stealing scam, how dumb does the opposition have to be to not just get there own damn trash can and bang on it before every pitch?


Morality = dumb

Can't make this stuff up
DannyDuberstein
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agproducer said:

MaxPower said:

Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?


Blue parachute for you, sir. It's about perspective.


Yep. Perspective. As in how hard one is willing to work to spin blatant, common sense cheating when their perspective is that of an astros fan.

Any non-moron realizes having a camera pointed at the catcher, a big-screen practically in the dugout, and signals to the hitter is ****ing cheating and far outside the bounds of fair play. Plain and simple. LOL at the memo argument. That might be the dumbest ****ing thing I've read yet, which is quite a bar
TarponChaser
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The sanctimony would be hilarious if not so hypocritical. Virtually every team in MLB was using some form of electronic sign-stealing that was ostensibly against the rules. The fact the Astros got hammered for it is flat out stupid.

So all the haters can eff off and die.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
They were the ones dumb enough to blow right on thru the stop sign. And I like how we are up to every team. ****ing titty baby argument. Poor wittle astwos. So picked on
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Well, that and dumb enough to happily employ a kiddie diddler on their pitching staff
Flexbone
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DannyDuberstein said:

Well, that and dumb enough to happily employ a kiddie diddler on their pitching staff


Your team was doing it too.

Yes, we know...you want the Supreme Court to affirm as much before you'll believe it.
agproducer
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DannyDuberstein said:

agproducer said:

MaxPower said:

Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?


Blue parachute for you, sir. It's about perspective.


Yep. Perspective. As in how hard one is willing to work to spin blatant, common sense cheating when their perspective is that of an astros fan.

Any non-moron realizes having a camera pointed at the catcher, a big-screen practically in the dugout, and signals to the hitter is ****ing cheating and far outside the bounds of fair play. Plain and simple. LOL at the memo argument. That might be the dumbest ****ing thing I've read yet, which is quite a bar


Answer me this: when the Yankees and Red Sox were busted in 2017 for the Apple Watches, would you consider that cheating?

When the Yankees used bullpen phones to relay sign information in the 90s and 2000s, was that cheating?

What about the system in old Comisky Park in the 80s that Jack McDowell talked about with lights in the scoreboard? Still cheating?

There was not an explicit rule in the books back then or in 2017 that said it was against the rules. Point it out in the rule book. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Astros continued their scheme after a commissioner's memo that said not to do it. Again, it was still not written in the rules. It was from a commissioner's memo.

So, was the sign stealing scheme cheating before the commissioner's memo or just considered cheating after the memo? Yes, the Astros system was more advanced, but how is the premise any different than the ones I mentioned above?

When those others happened, I don't think there was the same amount of screaming about them. I don't think others likened it to being "worse than the Black Sox scandal."

Look at Gaylord Perry. He threw illegal pitches, but is a Hall of Famer and considered crafty. Mike Fiers, the whistleblower, uses substances while in the mound. Those things are explicitly illegal, but overlooked. Is that cheating? What about George Brett and the pine tar bat? Sammy Sosa's corked bat? Where the anger about the integrity of the game for those things? Players were trying to get advantages over the competition.

I'm not justifying what the Astros did. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the sanctimonious indignation for this situation when other schemes were used in the past and MLB did very little.

Honestly, when the Apple watch thing happened in 2017, I didn't think to much about it. I thought, "The clubs were trying to get an advantage over the others again."

This stuff is a old as baseball.

As I said, perspective.


SquirrellyDan
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agproducer said:

DannyDuberstein said:

agproducer said:

MaxPower said:

Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.

We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?


Blue parachute for you, sir. It's about perspective.


Yep. Perspective. As in how hard one is willing to work to spin blatant, common sense cheating when their perspective is that of an astros fan.

Any non-moron realizes having a camera pointed at the catcher, a big-screen practically in the dugout, and signals to the hitter is ****ing cheating and far outside the bounds of fair play. Plain and simple. LOL at the memo argument. That might be the dumbest ****ing thing I've read yet, which is quite a bar


Answer me this: when the Yankees and Red Sox were busted in 2017 for the Apple Watches, would you consider that cheating?

When the Yankees used bullpen phones to relay sign information in the 90s and 2000s, was that cheating?

What about the system in old Comisky Park in the 80s that Jack McDowell talked about with lights in the scoreboard? Still cheating?

There was not an explicit rule in the books back then or in 2017 that said it was against the rules. Point it out in the rule book. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Astros continued their scheme after a commissioner's memo that said not to do it. Again, it was still not written in the rules. It was from a commissioner's memo.

So, was the sign stealing scheme cheating before the commissioner's memo or just considered cheating after the memo? Yes, the Astros system was more advanced, but how is the premise any different than the ones I mentioned above?

When those others happened, I don't think there was the same amount of screaming about them. I don't think others likened it to being "worse than the Black Sox scandal."

Look at Gaylord Perry. He threw illegal pitches, but is a Hall of Famer and considered crafty. Mike Fiers, the whistleblower, uses substances while in the mound. Those things are explicitly illegal, but overlooked. Is that cheating? What about George Brett and the pine tar bat? Sammy Sosa's corked bat? Where the anger about the integrity of the game for those things? Players were trying to get advantages over the competition.

I'm not justifying what the Astros did. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the sanctimonious indignation for this situation when other schemes were used in the past and MLB did very little.

Honestly, when the Apple watch thing happened in 2017, I didn't think to much about it. I thought, "The clubs were trying to get an advantage over the others again."

This stuff is a old as baseball.

As I said, perspective.



You won't get a response to this. The haters don't want to read about logic and the fact that there is plenty evidence of this going on for years. Astros were the only team that underwent a full investigation and they happened to win the WS, so a bunch of jealous and enraged haters are piling on. I'll sit back and enjoy it. Go stros.
SquirrellyDan
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DannyDuberstein said:

They were the ones dumb enough to blow right on thru the stop sign. And I like how we are up to every team. ****ing titty baby argument. Poor wittle astwos. So picked on
Poor little astros? We won in 2017, won the AL in 2019, and are a favorite to win it again this year. If you haven't noticed yet, Astros fans don't care about all the crying people are doing, which enrages the poor 'cheated' fans even more.

Honestly, there's one fan base that has any reason to cry---the Yankees. We ended their season 2 out of the last three years (they were cheating, too). The most pathetic whiners are the sorry Arlington, A's, Angels, Cards fans etc who had no chance of winning anything, regardless of how much or how little the big boys were cheating. Enjoy the show.

"We're always going to be World Series champs because we were talented and to me, we earned the right to be World Series champs."



Just because stuff came out about the 2017 Astros doesn't mean other teams weren't doing illegal stuff. It just means that we were the ones that were I guess caught." - Dallas Keuchel
DannyDuberstein
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AG
And Barry Bonds may always be the HR record holder. But it doesn't mean ****
AustinAg2012
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SquirrellyDan said:

DannyDuberstein said:

They were the ones dumb enough to blow right on thru the stop sign. And I like how we are up to every team. ****ing titty baby argument. Poor wittle astwos. So picked on
Poor little astros? We won in 2017, won the AL in 2019, and are a favorite to win it again this year. If you haven't noticed yet, Astros fans don't care about all the crying people are doing, which enrages the poor 'cheated' fans even more.

Honestly, there's one fan base that has any reason to cry---the Yankees. We ended their season 2 out of the last three years (they were cheating, too). The most pathetic whiners are the sorry Arlington, A's, Angels, Cards fans etc who had no chance of winning anything, regardless of how much or how little the big boys were cheating. Enjoy the show.

"We're always going to be World Series champs because we were talented and to me, we earned the right to be World Series champs."



Just because stuff came out about the 2017 Astros doesn't mean other teams weren't doing illegal stuff. It just means that we were the ones that were I guess caught." - Dallas Keuchel
The epitome of Houston sports fans: Pathetic. Let's review your ****hole city's "championships":

-Rockets ('93-'94)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Rockets ('94-'95)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Asstros ('17)... ONLY BECAUSE CHEATED

Quite the accomplishments, Houstonians. Not only do your teams consistently choke away playoff games, the few instances you actually win, they're tainted. The Asstros will only be remembered as cheaters. Again, pathetic.
SquirrellyDan
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AustinAg2012 said:

SquirrellyDan said:

DannyDuberstein said:

They were the ones dumb enough to blow right on thru the stop sign. And I like how we are up to every team. ****ing titty baby argument. Poor wittle astwos. So picked on
Poor little astros? We won in 2017, won the AL in 2019, and are a favorite to win it again this year. If you haven't noticed yet, Astros fans don't care about all the crying people are doing, which enrages the poor 'cheated' fans even more.

Honestly, there's one fan base that has any reason to cry---the Yankees. We ended their season 2 out of the last three years (they were cheating, too). The most pathetic whiners are the sorry Arlington, A's, Angels, Cards fans etc who had no chance of winning anything, regardless of how much or how little the big boys were cheating. Enjoy the show.

"We're always going to be World Series champs because we were talented and to me, we earned the right to be World Series champs."



Just because stuff came out about the 2017 Astros doesn't mean other teams weren't doing illegal stuff. It just means that we were the ones that were I guess caught." - Dallas Keuchel
The epitome of Houston sports fans: Pathetic. Let's review your ****hole city's "championships":

-Rockets ('93-'94)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Rockets ('94-'95)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Asstros ('17)... ONLY BECAUSE CHEATED

Quite the accomplishments, Houstonians. Not only do your teams consistently choke away playoff games, the few instances you actually win, they're tainted. The Asstros will only be remembered as cheaters. Again, pathetic.
Take this doll....point to the place where Houston touched you.

Not that it matters in a thread about the 2017 WS champs, but the Jordan argument is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. He played and lost in 94-95.....I'm wondering after he really retired or went over the hill should any NBA championships count? Start another thread to debate that one please....we cater only to breaking Astros haters on this one.
03_Aggie
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DannyDuberstein said:

And Barry Bonds may always be the HR record holder. But it doesn't mean ****


Poor rangers. Their best shot at a WS was squandered by a juicer who couldn't catch a fly ball.
dixichkn
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AG
Quote:

-Rockets ('93-'94)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED

-Rockets ('94-'95)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
I love the pathetic asshats that keep trotting this one out.
First of all.......3/19/95......Jordan returns to Bulls. 3/28/95........drops 55 on the Knicks in the Garden. Clearly he's not game ready (smirk). 5/18/95........playoff run ended in the semis by the Magic, who then get swept out by the Rockets.
Jordan actually retired in 1999, trying one ill-advised comeback with the Wizards. I guess every subsequent championship won doesn't count either? Y'know, since Jordan wasn't there? Oh by the way, the 3 championship years where Jordan was at his peak, 91-93.......Rockets were 5-1 head to head vs the Bulls.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your string of HTown hatred to point out an incredibly simple fact. By all means carry on......and let's be honest, any Ag who freely chooses to live in the liberal cesspool sh**hole that is Austin TX, and then has the gall to throw stones at any other city.......maybe you need a day or two of self reflection
wessimo
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AustinAg2012 said:

SquirrellyDan said:

DannyDuberstein said:

They were the ones dumb enough to blow right on thru the stop sign. And I like how we are up to every team. ****ing titty baby argument. Poor wittle astwos. So picked on
Poor little astros? We won in 2017, won the AL in 2019, and are a favorite to win it again this year. If you haven't noticed yet, Astros fans don't care about all the crying people are doing, which enrages the poor 'cheated' fans even more.

Honestly, there's one fan base that has any reason to cry---the Yankees. We ended their season 2 out of the last three years (they were cheating, too). The most pathetic whiners are the sorry Arlington, A's, Angels, Cards fans etc who had no chance of winning anything, regardless of how much or how little the big boys were cheating. Enjoy the show.

"We're always going to be World Series champs because we were talented and to me, we earned the right to be World Series champs."



Just because stuff came out about the 2017 Astros doesn't mean other teams weren't doing illegal stuff. It just means that we were the ones that were I guess caught." - Dallas Keuchel
The epitome of Houston sports fans: Pathetic. Let's review your ****hole city's "championships":

-Rockets ('93-'94)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Rockets ('94-'95)... ONLY BECAUSE JORDAN RETIRED
-Asstros ('17)... ONLY BECAUSE CHEATED

Quite the accomplishments, Houstonians. Not only do your teams consistently choke away playoff games, the few instances you actually win, they're tainted. The Asstros will only be remembered as cheaters. Again, pathetic.


You forgot the Houston Dynamo wining the MLS Cup in 2006 & 2007. Afaik there was no asterisk on those.
 
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