DannyDuberstein said:
agproducer said:
MaxPower said:
Let's keep in mind that, at the end of the day, the Astros violated a memo (not an official rule in the rule book). Even dating back to the 2001 memo (still not an official rule), it stipulates the use of electronic devices in the dugout (the Astros did not use it in the dugout). Clearly they did not act in accordance with the spirit of the 2001 memo or the edict of the mid season 2017 memo. If you want to classify that as cheating then fine. Regardless it was clearly poor sportsmanship.
We won't really know if the sign stealing was Manfred's real concern or the fact that the Astros blatantly ignored his memo in an act of insubordination. Unfortunately he married the two with the punishment levied. It's unfortunate because it gives the message to fans / media that the "cheating" was a huge deal and begging the question as to why it hasn't been investigated further beyond the Astros if its such a big deal. The Yankees used devices in the dugout in 2017. Why no follow up on their activities? If any player comes out and says they were on a team that used electronics for sign stealing will the same 3 month investigation occur?
Blue parachute for you, sir. It's about perspective.
Yep. Perspective. As in how hard one is willing to work to spin blatant, common sense cheating when their perspective is that of an astros fan.
Any non-moron realizes having a camera pointed at the catcher, a big-screen practically in the dugout, and signals to the hitter is ****ing cheating and far outside the bounds of fair play. Plain and simple. LOL at the memo argument. That might be the dumbest ****ing thing I've read yet, which is quite a bar
Answer me this: when the Yankees and Red Sox were busted in 2017 for the Apple Watches, would you consider that cheating?
When the Yankees used bullpen phones to relay sign information in the 90s and 2000s, was that cheating?
What about the system in old Comisky Park in the 80s that Jack McDowell talked about with lights in the scoreboard? Still cheating?
There was not an explicit rule in the books back then or in 2017 that said it was against the rules. Point it out in the rule book. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Astros continued their scheme after a commissioner's memo that said not to do it. Again, it was still not written in the rules. It was from a commissioner's memo.
So, was the sign stealing scheme cheating before the commissioner's memo or just considered cheating after the memo? Yes, the Astros system was more advanced, but how is the premise any different than the ones I mentioned above?
When those others happened, I don't think there was the same amount of screaming about them. I don't think others likened it to being "worse than the Black Sox scandal."
Look at Gaylord Perry. He threw illegal pitches, but is a Hall of Famer and considered crafty. Mike Fiers, the whistleblower, uses substances while in the mound. Those things are explicitly illegal, but overlooked. Is that cheating? What about George Brett and the pine tar bat? Sammy Sosa's corked bat? Where the anger about the integrity of the game for those things? Players were trying to get advantages over the competition.
I'm not justifying what the Astros did. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the sanctimonious indignation for this situation when other schemes were used in the past and MLB did very little.
Honestly, when the Apple watch thing happened in 2017, I didn't think to much about it. I thought, "The clubs were trying to get an advantage over the others again."
This stuff is a old as baseball.
As I said, perspective.
