With Manfred finally growing some balls and threatening people, it's a good time... for plausible deniability. These games don't matter.lil99chris said:Aggies2009 said:
Looks like Bregman got hit today and despite being a breaking pitch, he looked hurt.
"You hate to see that. It's just a crying shame."
Am I doing it right?
....yeah, that looks like a great strategy. Hit a batter with two strikes.
Astros = CHEATERS
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Last: 2 yr ago by Aggies2009
Thanks for all the free bases ****ers.
https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/2/27/21155650/houston-astros-sign-stealing-jonathan-lucroy-pace-of-play
Interesting article that would help explain why Lucroy was so vocal about it.
Interesting article that would help explain why Lucroy was so vocal about it.
From that article:
Sounds an awful lot like what baseball has been about through it's entire history.Quote:
Lucroy:
"I knew about that two years ago, that it was going on," Jonathan Lucroy, who caught Jackson in that August game, told ESPN last week. "I know it just recently came out. Everyone in baseball [knew], especially in that division that played against them. But we were all aware of the Astros doing those things and it was up to us to outsmart them."
And it's a great rebuttal to the lazy "if they got away with cheating in 2017, why would they stop?" narrative. Other teams caught on and the tactic ran its course. The tactic had to be effective a high percentage of the time to be worth doing. The more opponents became aware and switched up their signs, the less effective the strategy was. And the more Astros hitters went to the plate and got bad tips, the more inclined they became to just scrap it altogether.SquirrellyDan said:
From that article:Sounds an awful lot like what baseball has been about through it's entire history.Quote:
Lucroy:
"I knew about that two years ago, that it was going on," Jonathan Lucroy, who caught Jackson in that August game, told ESPN last week. "I know it just recently came out. Everyone in baseball [knew], especially in that division that played against them. But we were all aware of the Astros doing those things and it was up to us to outsmart them."
That's part of the funny irony in all this. Fiers (among others) wanted it brought to the surface and investigated because they thought it was still happening and wanted to put an end to it. But as it turned out, the strategy had naturally run its course in early 2018.
And that's a good rebuttal to those saying, "It didn't help that much". The only Dodgers pitcher who switched his signs up did well. The others didn't. I don't know which of Crane's statements I should believe... The one where he said, "It didn't affect the games" or the one 50 seconds later where he said, "It did affect the games".Deluxe said:And it's a great rebuttal to the lazy "if they got away with cheating in 2017, why would they stop?" narrative. Other teams caught on and the tactic ran its course. The tactic had to be effective a high percentage of the time to be worth doing. The more opponents became aware and switched up their signs, the less effective the strategy was. And the more Astros hitters went to the plate and got bad tips, the more inclined they became to just scrap it altogether.SquirrellyDan said:
From that article:Sounds an awful lot like what baseball has been about through it's entire history.Quote:
Lucroy:
"I knew about that two years ago, that it was going on," Jonathan Lucroy, who caught Jackson in that August game, told ESPN last week. "I know it just recently came out. Everyone in baseball [knew], especially in that division that played against them. But we were all aware of the Astros doing those things and it was up to us to outsmart them."
That's part of the funny irony in all this. Fiers (among others) wanted it brought to the surface and investigated because they thought it was still happening and wanted to put an end to it. But as it turned out, the strategy had naturally run its course in early 2018.
Either way, the cheating did well beyond 2017, assuming they did stop. Even in 2019 just before the Nationals beat the Astros for the World Series, teams were calling them up STILL warning them about it. So if the Astros DID stop cheating, it served a bigger purpose to make teams paranoid.
The reason it did not affect games in some people's minds is that they were beating teams that had sophisticated electronic surveillance systems in place - that being the Yankees, Red Sox and dodgers. So it was viewed as beating teams at their own game. I've quit worrying about these kinds of stuff in college and pro sports. It's all entertainment to me. If I want purity in sports, I'll go watch kids t ball games because it degenerates after that.
Aggies2009 said:How plain do I have to make it that I'm not a Rangers fan? Lmao Just because someone has disdain for wife beaters, racists, liars, and cheaters doesn't mean they're automatically the fan of a team you don't like. It means they're a normal person.Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:diehard03 said:Quote:
Im not saying the Astros didn't cheat because I believe the Commissioners report on 2017, but it is possible that Kershaw also just had a bad game considering his postseason track record isn't good.
That's the problem with cheating: You no longer get the default position of the plausibility of an alternative scenario.
You just have to wear it.
Trust me. They do. So long as they got a t-shirt and hat, they're okay with lying, cheating, and spousal abuse. Rangers players in the 90s did steroids so it's all okay.
I know you guys are having fun with this cheating scandal but stop with the wide paintbrush- "they" is a big word when referencing to one or two internet posters.
Also be very careful about the domestic violence comments. Rangers have some skeletons in that same closet.
So now you are lumping Astros fans with racists in addition to all the other adjectives you have chosen to believe? Ok, Ag. Won't belittle you in kind but also won't be reading any more of your comments.
I agree, but baseball is different. There are countless ways to bend the rules, and players have been doing it since the game was invented. It's part of the game, and anyone who says different either just hates the teams doing it or knows little about baseball.
"Stealing" second base was never allowed until people started doing it, then they wrote the acceptable ways to do it in the rule book. Stealing signs from second base or from people in the stands has always been done, but we look the other way even though it's "cheating." I can't think of another sport where things like this can happen. Football maybe with the cameras stealing play calls, but nothing like the opportunities in baseball.
"Stealing" second base was never allowed until people started doing it, then they wrote the acceptable ways to do it in the rule book. Stealing signs from second base or from people in the stands has always been done, but we look the other way even though it's "cheating." I can't think of another sport where things like this can happen. Football maybe with the cameras stealing play calls, but nothing like the opportunities in baseball.
It's ok! He's not a Rangers fan! I'm still waiting to hear who he roots for....Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:How plain do I have to make it that I'm not a Rangers fan? Lmao Just because someone has disdain for wife beaters, racists, liars, and cheaters doesn't mean they're automatically the fan of a team you don't like. It means they're a normal person.Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:diehard03 said:Quote:
Im not saying the Astros didn't cheat because I believe the Commissioners report on 2017, but it is possible that Kershaw also just had a bad game considering his postseason track record isn't good.
That's the problem with cheating: You no longer get the default position of the plausibility of an alternative scenario.
You just have to wear it.
Trust me. They do. So long as they got a t-shirt and hat, they're okay with lying, cheating, and spousal abuse. Rangers players in the 90s did steroids so it's all okay.
I know you guys are having fun with this cheating scandal but stop with the wide paintbrush- "they" is a big word when referencing to one or two internet posters.
Also be very careful about the domestic violence comments. Rangers have some skeletons in that same closet.
So now you are lumping Astros fans with racists in addition to all the other adjectives you have chosen to believe? Ok, Ag. Won't belittle you in kind but also won't be reading any more of your comments.
I whole heartily agree. When it was the Yankees, Red Sox or dodgers that had articles written about them and electronic surveillance, it was written as it was woven into the dna of baseball. But now it's the Astros, oh my gosh!!! This is the worst thing in the history of the game. If the Astros had beaten the twins, royals and pirates to win the series, no one outside of baseball would have cared. But the east coast media wants to drive a message here. But the reality is that it IS woven into the dna of all sports and business.
Hell yeah Go Cards! Those cheating soys don't want that smokelil99chris said:Aggies2009 said:
Looks like Bregman got hit today and despite being a breaking pitch, he looked hurt.
"You hate to see that. It's just a crying shame."
Am I doing it right?
....yeah, that looks like a great strategy. Hit a batter with two strikes.
Exactly my point. Teams becoming aware that the Astros were stealing signs illegally adjusted and effectively rendered the strategy moot. So it's easy to see why they stopped.Aggies2009 said:
Either way, the cheating did well beyond 2017, assuming they did stop. Even in 2019 just before the Nationals beat the Astros for the World Series, teams were calling them up STILL warning them about it. So if the Astros DID stop cheating, it served a bigger purpose to make teams paranoid.
Wambulance driver?safety guy said:
I whole heartily agree. When it was the Yankees, Red Sox or dodgers that had articles written about them and electronic surveillance, it was written as it was woven into the dna of baseball. But now it's the Astros, oh my gosh!!! This is the worst thing in the history of the game. If the Astros had beaten the twins, royals and pirates to win the series, no one outside of baseball would have cared. But the east coast media wants to drive a message here. But the reality is that it IS woven into the dna of all sports and business.
But breaking the law is ok. Good job Cardinalslda6339 said:Hell yeah Go Cards! Those cheating soys don't want that smokelil99chris said:Aggies2009 said:
Looks like Bregman got hit today and despite being a breaking pitch, he looked hurt.
"You hate to see that. It's just a crying shame."
Am I doing it right?
....yeah, that looks like a great strategy. Hit a batter with two strikes.
Jeff Bagwell constantly took steroids, just like Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens, it's the reason he'll never get voted into the Hall of Fa- ... oh wait.KT 90 said:SquirrellyDan said:Aggies2009 said:diehard03 said:
Im not
Now Astro fan is going with the steroids shtick? What in the name of Jeff Bagwell are you talking about? Oh, and Ken Caminiti says hi also.
If Camniti took steroids as an Astro, he really sucked at doing it. He never hit more than 18 home runs in a season for Houston, then hit 26, 40, 26, and 29 in his first four years with the Padres.
Good grief you're an embarrassment.
Quote:
I can't think of another sport where things like this can happen
Baseballs the only sport that's 90% downtime / 10% action. This alone lends itself to trying to find ways to maximize the benefit in the game during the downtime.
Your brethren have done plenty of both. I don't "believe" the Astros have liars, cheaters, and wife beaters on their team. Those are facts. Osuna beat his wife, half their current team cheated, and their players have straight up lied about it, and other things.Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:How plain do I have to make it that I'm not a Rangers fan? Lmao Just because someone has disdain for wife beaters, racists, liars, and cheaters doesn't mean they're automatically the fan of a team you don't like. It means they're a normal person.Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:diehard03 said:Quote:
Im not saying the Astros didn't cheat because I believe the Commissioners report on 2017, but it is possible that Kershaw also just had a bad game considering his postseason track record isn't good.
That's the problem with cheating: You no longer get the default position of the plausibility of an alternative scenario.
You just have to wear it.
Trust me. They do. So long as they got a t-shirt and hat, they're okay with lying, cheating, and spousal abuse. Rangers players in the 90s did steroids so it's all okay.
I know you guys are having fun with this cheating scandal but stop with the wide paintbrush- "they" is a big word when referencing to one or two internet posters.
Also be very careful about the domestic violence comments. Rangers have some skeletons in that same closet.
So now you are lumping Astros fans with racists in addition to all the other adjectives you have chosen to believe? Ok, Ag. Won't belittle you in kind but also won't be reading any more of your comments.
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
Quote:
That's part of the funny irony in all this. Fiers (among others) wanted it brought to the surface and investigated because they thought it was still happening and wanted to put an end to it. But as it turned out, the strategy had naturally run its course in early 2018.
I don't think this is why they stopped. They secured their title and the guys who implemented the system left the organization. (Cora/Beltran) You had some natural turnover of the roster, and therefore, an ever expanding list of people who would become in the "know" on the subject. Most people probably believed they were good enough anyway, so it was easier to reduce the risk.
I won't discount teams actions to beat it as worth nothing, but I think it only made a decision they intended to make easier.
It's.... not just the "East coast media". And it's not "just Rangers fans".safety guy said:
I whole heartily agree. When it was the Yankees, Red Sox or dodgers that had articles written about them and electronic surveillance, it was written as it was woven into the dna of baseball. But now it's the Astros, oh my gosh!!! This is the worst thing in the history of the game. If the Astros had beaten the twins, royals and pirates to win the series, no one outside of baseball would have cared. But the east coast media wants to drive a message here. But the reality is that it IS woven into the dna of all sports and business.
Players across the league are speaking up about this... And getting louder.
It's okay. I'm sure someone can find some infraction they each committed at some point so we know their opinion is invalidated.
Quote:
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-yuli-gurriel-apologizes-for-gesture-c259903476
Goodness. It was one player and he apologized. Every team has made mistakes. Quit reaching with every minor infraction.
I am also confident there are plenty of things that could blowout the Astros sign-stealing scandal if they occurred nowadays.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013
Pete RoseAggies2009 said:Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:Marvin said:Aggies2009 said:diehard03 said:Quote:
the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
Marge Schott - gave the ol' thumbs up to Adolf Hitler
Al Campanis
Mid-1980s owners collusion to keep salaries down
Pittsburgh Drug Trials that implicated 21 players including Dave Parker, Vida Blue, Tim Raines, Keith Hernandez, Willie Stargell, Dusty Baker and more.
Flexbone said:
Good grief you're an embarrassment.
Lmk when you're in town so we can split a pitcher at the chicken!
Aggies2009 said:It's.... not just the "East coast media". And it's not "just Rangers fans".safety guy said:
I whole heartily agree. When it was the Yankees, Red Sox or dodgers that had articles written about them and electronic surveillance, it was written as it was woven into the dna of baseball. But now it's the Astros, oh my gosh!!! This is the worst thing in the history of the game. If the Astros had beaten the twins, royals and pirates to win the series, no one outside of baseball would have cared. But the east coast media wants to drive a message here. But the reality is that it IS woven into the dna of all sports and business.
Players across the league are speaking up about this... And getting louder.
It's okay. I'm sure someone can find some infraction they each committed at some point so we know their opinion is invalidated.
My. Pearl Clutcher, please enlighten me! Who is your team?
bigcat22 said:
Ok this is pretty funny
https://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-PACK-Funny-Novelty-Baseball-Card-Houston-Astros-Trash-Can-Cheating-Scandal-/283793546263
Lmao I love how they're in protective sleeves too.
lil99chris said:Quote:
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-yuli-gurriel-apologizes-for-gesture-c259903476
Goodness. It was one player and he apologized. Every team has made mistakes. Quit reaching with every minor infraction.
I am also confident there are plenty of things that could blowout the Astros sign-stealing scandal if they occurred nowadays.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013
You're aware that Astros fans are STILL tweeting that image at Yu, aren't you? Not really "one player" when it's excused and promoted by fans.
Digging deep if you are still crying about the slant eyes.
A few weeks old, but LA local news wasn't messing around when they showed clips of the Astros presser
https://instagr.am/p/B8hQNuWHX4f
https://instagr.am/p/B8hQNuWHX4f
Keep reaching buddy. One day the Astros will make up for however they wronged you.Aggies2009 said:lil99chris said:Quote:
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-yuli-gurriel-apologizes-for-gesture-c259903476
Goodness. It was one player and he apologized. Every team has made mistakes. Quit reaching with every minor infraction.
I am also confident there are plenty of things that could blowout the Astros sign-stealing scandal if they occurred nowadays.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013
You're aware that Astros fans are STILL tweeting that image at Yu, aren't you? Not really "one player" when it's excused and promoted by fans.
You want to tell us who you root for?
In 1996, I wore an Astros hat to Wrigley Field. A Cubs fan called me a word that rhymes with maggot and a word that rhymes with ducking. By your definition, Cubs fans are homophobic hate mongers.Aggies2009 said:lil99chris said:Quote:
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-yuli-gurriel-apologizes-for-gesture-c259903476
Goodness. It was one player and he apologized. Every team has made mistakes. Quit reaching with every minor infraction.
I am also confident there are plenty of things that could blowout the Astros sign-stealing scandal if they occurred nowadays.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013
You're aware that Astros fans are STILL tweeting that image at Yu, aren't you? Not really "one player" when it's excused and promoted by fans.
Good player perspective and interesting discussion. Go to 27m mark.
SquirrellyDan said:Keep reaching buddy. One day the Astros will make up for however they wronged you.Aggies2009 said:lil99chris said:Quote:
Also, the racism I was talking about was the players making faces to mock Yu Darvish. I, like most sane people, look down on that. Said nothing about the fans, other than that it's somewhat appalling that they seem to be okay with all of the above and try all they can to deflect and their arguments typically devolve into whataboutisms. Why do you think that one idiot wants so badly to know what team I root for? Cause he wants to find some minor infraction from 50 years ago and compare it to the biggest scandal in baseball in 100 years.
https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-yuli-gurriel-apologizes-for-gesture-c259903476
Goodness. It was one player and he apologized. Every team has made mistakes. Quit reaching with every minor infraction.
I am also confident there are plenty of things that could blowout the Astros sign-stealing scandal if they occurred nowadays.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013
You're aware that Astros fans are STILL tweeting that image at Yu, aren't you? Not really "one player" when it's excused and promoted by fans.
You want to tell us who you root for?
He's a complete dweeb who spends every waking moment trying to get the Astros because he's upset his team has never won a ring. He refuses to reply every time I ask him if he's wiped out the Rangers' late 90s division titles from the record books after it was found out they were loaded with steroids. Total crickets.
You're talking about a guy who's in his mid 30s and still wears a glove to games...without kids.
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