Astros = CHEATERS

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BennyBlancoFromTheBright
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SquirrellyDan
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Quincey P. Morris
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So essentially: we cheated, we won, we don't care. Remind me how the Rangers are the sips of baseball again?
SquirrellyDan
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Ranger #007 said:

So essentially: we cheated, we won, we don't care. Remind me how the Rangers are the sips of baseball again?


Well, the sips have actually won a championship...so there's that.
Quincey P. Morris
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So then we're in agreement that the Astros are in fact the tsips of MLB. Good to know. Cheats who claim to be the guys that "do it right".
Proposition Joe
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Flexbone doesn't care so much about this issue that he's posted 20 times in 24 hours letting us know how little he cares about this issue.
DallasAg 94
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South Platte
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Ranger #007 said:

On a thread about the Astros? On a board dominated by Astros and Rangers fans? Yeah, the Astros are front and center. Like I posted on this thread, if the Red Sox don't get at least what the Astros did it's absurd. I can't control what they do about the Yankees (who didn't wins WS).
The Red Sox have 3 other recent WS championships besides 2018. They have proven their ability to win without cheating, so they will get a pass by the media, opposing players, etc. Right or wrong, Boston will be held to a different standard by the people that matter. And that will go for the rest of their careers, Hall of Fame voting, etc.

Unless the Astros win at least one more WS title over the next few years, this legacy will be attached to all of the players and the franchise. Otherwise, the narrative will be that they only won the title because they cheated.




Marvin
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Ranger #007 said:





I don't think anyone has insinuated the Astros were a bad team absent the sign stealing. Quite the opposite actually. The Astros were a great team that cheated when they didn't have to in all likelihood. Which makes the whole thing even dumber.

I have mostly avoided this thread- because facts don't lie and in this case the truth hurts, because I don't appreciate being called trash by a couple of anonymous and self-righteous Ranger fans simply for supporting a team that has "Houston" on the uniform, but mainly because nobody is going to change anyone's mind here. You guys have argued, needled and tried to out-insult each other for a good month. It's like reading a transcript from recess at an elementary school playground.

That said, as a lifelong Astros fan this point above is what makes me the most mad / sad. At different times I've been mad at the players for doing it, at Luhnow and Hinch for allowing it, at Crane for totally capitulating and accepting the SMU role, at MLB and Manfred for stopping with the Astros, at meatheads like Clevinger and Bellinger for smacking their gums (there's enough damaging truth out there without having to embellish and extrapolate things unproven), at Fiers for pointing his finger but keeping his ring and money, and on and on and on...

At the end of the day, though, I go back to the players. I just don't understand why the 2017 team didn't believe in themselves. We believed in them. I bought multiple tickets to every playoff series, bought the merchandise and WS jerseys, bought the concessions... I was 100% all in. Hell, I'm still all in- we're headed to West Palm this weekend. I just wish I could ask one question of those guys: why, when you had such a great team, did you feel like you had to cheat? I don't think I'll ever understand it.
Proposition Joe
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I'd assume it was looked at from an "advanced analytic" standpoint... They didn't feel like they were necessarily "cheating", just getting the edge that came from having advanced data that is happening in all sports.

Now, they were wrong and it definitely crossed the line, but I think the above is a good explanation of how it initially started.
agproducer
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Proposition Joe said:

I'd assume it was looked at from an "advanced analytic" standpoint... They didn't feel like they were necessarily "cheating", just getting the edge that came from having advanced data that is happening in all sports.

Now, they were wrong and it definitely crossed the line, but I think the above is a good explanation of how it initially started.
Probably one of the most intelligent posts on this thread.
03_Aggie
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I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.
West Point Aggie
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South Platte said:

the narrative will be that they only won the title because they cheated.




Too late...it already is...
Ervin Burrell
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03_Aggie said:

I don't blame you. I was disappointed at first. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this is much ado about nothing.

Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial.
PLEASE tell me this is satire. WOW.
Proposition Joe
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03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.
Flexbone
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Proposition Joe said:

03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.


So...you're admitting it wasn't against the rules?

Yeah...they only won because they "cheated". They weren't the best team in baseball. They didn't put up better numbers on the road. They didn't win the WS on the road. They didn't beat a team using Apple watches in the dugout on their way there. They didn't continue to be the best offensive team in baseball after that season when they weren't doing it anymore.


Whatever you guys need to tell yourselves so you can feel better about your pathetic need to attach yourself to a pro sports team because you're a mediocre individual.
investorAg83
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Ervin Burrell said:

03_Aggie said:

I don't blame you. I was disappointed at first. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this is much ado about nothing.

Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial.
PLEASE tell me this is satire. WOW.
Oh no, I think he's actually serious. Or a great troll.
Proposition Joe
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Just remind you guys, you are pathetic. You should care less about sports teams. Be like Flexbone. He obviously doesn't care. Nope, not at all.

KT 90
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Ervin Burrell
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Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.


Whatever you guys need to tell yourselves so you can feel better about your pathetic need to attach yourself to a pro sports team because you're a mediocre individual.
The fact that you fail to realize you're doing the very same thing by defending the Astros via post after post after post after post is pretty delicious. Cue the laugh/cry response to this.
Flexbone
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Proposition Joe said:

Just remind you guys, you are pathetic. You should care less about sports teams. Be like Flexbone. He obviously doesn't care. Nope, not at all.




Let me know when I'm camped out on a thread delegitimizing the Rangers 90s division titles for weeks on end. They've taken those banners down, correct?
Flexbone
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Ervin Burrell said:

Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.


Whatever you guys need to tell yourselves so you can feel better about your pathetic need to attach yourself to a pro sports team because you're a mediocre individual.
The fact that you fail to realize you're doing the very same thing by defending the Astros via post after post after post after post is pretty delicious. Cue the laugh/cry response to this.


It's actually not the same thing at all. I am surprised you had time to post here considering you're usually camped out on Kyler Murray threads on Premium.
Aggies2009
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Proposition Joe said:

Just remind you guys, you are pathetic. You should care less about sports teams. Be like Flexbone. He obviously doesn't care. Nope, not at all.


Bruh....
Slamn Sharpe
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More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
03_Aggie
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investorAg83 said:

Ervin Burrell said:

03_Aggie said:

I don't blame you. I was disappointed at first. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this is much ado about nothing.

Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial.
PLEASE tell me this is satire. WOW.
Oh no, I think he's actually serious. Or a great troll.


We're up to what, five, baseball geniuses that bring nothing more than "I just know?"

Still waiting for actual substance. But maybe a major league pitcher and his manager are just morons too.
DannyDuberstein
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DannyDuberstein said:

Any guesses as to which mlb team has a player that takes a **** on the astros tomorrow? Today's winner was whoever had the Reds thanks to Trevor Bauer
And the winner is whoever had the Angels
DannyDuberstein
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03_Aggie
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Proposition Joe said:

03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.


They were two completely different things. But people, apparently like yourself, have trouble understanding that.

I also never said it was rogue people either. But it wasn't Bregman in there signaling for Correa.

So just like Hinch broke the monitors, yet it continued on, some players didn't care to participate but that doesn't mean someone didn't bang the trashcan during their at bats.


03_Aggie
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Yours looks the exact same.
Ervin Burrell
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McDadeTXAggie said:

More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
Gleybar Torres and Justin Turner as well. Weird, I thought the only ones talking about it were Rangers fans?
03_Aggie
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Ervin Burrell said:

McDadeTXAggie said:

More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
Gleybar Torres and Justin Turner as well. Weird, I thought the only ones talking about it were Rangers fans?


This thread is close to surpassing the actual Rangers dedicated thread. But please continue to tell us how much they don't care about the Astros.
Ervin Burrell
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03_Aggie said:

Ervin Burrell said:

McDadeTXAggie said:

More players weighing in on this... its Trout now. It's not going away anytime soon
Gleybar Torres and Justin Turner as well. Weird, I thought the only ones talking about it were Rangers fans?


This thread is close to surpassing the actual Rangers dedicated thread. But please continue to tell us how much they don't care about the Astros.

And half of the posts are from a Cards fan and "I don't care about pro sports or this issue at all" Flexbone.
Proposition Joe
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03_Aggie said:

Proposition Joe said:

03_Aggie said:

I think the "Dark Arts" scheme may fall into that category. But technically that wasn't illegal and didn't directly involve the players.

I don't think the trash can/monitor deal was some elaborate scheme by the club. I think it was as simple as two guys, that were respected by the players, saying you guys are way behind in this stuff and here's how we'll change that. Players probably didn't give it much thought from a risk perspective. Most of them had only played for the Astros.

We know some players didn't like it because they found the noise distracting. That would lend credence that this wasn't a batter by batter request but most likely someone that wasn't playing implementing the process.

But people love a good conspiracy theory.

I think it's less that people love a good conspiracy theory, and more posts like these from Astros fans that try and skew everything in the softest possible light...

Trying to make a case that aspects "technically weren't illegal" and that this was somehow just 2 rogue players that forced the rest of the team to bend to their will and the innocent little players didn't know any better is going overdrive in trying to downplay things.

Your own coach reportedly took a bat to the monitors on two different occasions. There was absolutely no doubt that once this thing was in full swing that the players knew what they were doing wasn't kosher.


They were two completely different things. But people, apparently like yourself, have trouble understanding that.

I also never said it was rogue people either. But it wasn't Bregman in there signaling for Correa.

So just like Hinch broke the monitors, yet it continued on, some players didn't care to participate but that doesn't mean someone didn't bang the trashcan during their at bats.

And here we have another example how someone deals with things their fandom doesn't want to accept...

It weaves from "Every team was doing it" to "Astros only cheated during this specific time frame" to "these specific fan favorites (Altuve/Correa/Bregman) didn't do it, it was only those other guys".

It's all about how a fan can make the whole ordeal more digestible to themselves rather than acknowledging what most any sane and logical observer would say is likely:

* Every other team wasn't doing it, at the very least not to the extent the Astros were.

* The cheating continued long past 2017

* Altuve, Correa and/or Bregman all took part


It's fine to delude yourself, but don't be shocked when everyone outside of the Astros organization and fandom assumes what is most likely.
03_Aggie
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Good lord you are a moron.
Bunk Moreland
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Someone actually posted that distinguishing between a fastball and a curveball isn't that beneficial? Oh my, the abject stupidity...

Here's Trout's thoughts today:
Quote:

"It was a player-driven thing. It sucks, too, because guys' careers have been affected, a lot of people lost jobs. It was tough. Me going up to the plate knowing what was coming -- it would be pretty fun up there."

 
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