Astros = CHEATERS

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. . .
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https://www.scribd.com/document/446459014/Bolsinger-Complaint
AggieBaseball06
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AG
. . . said:

https://www.scribd.com/document/446459014/Bolsinger-Complaint


What I find super funny is that, while he is a Texas resident suing a Texas team about an incident that happened in Texas, he filed the suit in LA... I'm sure he is hoping to get a jury of 10 Dodgers fans...
Cromagnum
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AG
That 4.93 ERA is his problem, not trash can banging.
Flexbone
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lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

First Lawsuit has been filed. Since MLB has an official partnership with DraftKings I wonder if this could actually turn into something, guess we'll wait and see. Any lawyers have an preliminary opinion/comment?


I'm an attorney, and my comment is that you might be the biggest moron on this board. The Cardinals had employees GO TO JAIL and yet here you are, running your mouth about something that a TON of teams were doing. Just how big of a tool are you?

A CARDINALS fan. What are you, 95 years old?
Neat deflection!


I've never seen anything stranger than this weird guy hanging out on every Astros thread, bitter because "his Cardinals" aren't good at baseball.
Flexbone, a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball:

"I've never seen anything stranger than a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball"
That would make sense..if you weren't actively cheering for the Nationals on the World Series thread on here before this story ever came out. You're a weirdly obsessed, strange individual. I'm sorry the Cardinals aren't relevant. Maybe you shouldn't attach your self-worth to a baseball team?
LDA9336
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AG
Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

First Lawsuit has been filed. Since MLB has an official partnership with DraftKings I wonder if this could actually turn into something, guess we'll wait and see. Any lawyers have an preliminary opinion/comment?


I'm an attorney, and my comment is that you might be the biggest moron on this board. The Cardinals had employees GO TO JAIL and yet here you are, running your mouth about something that a TON of teams were doing. Just how big of a tool are you?

A CARDINALS fan. What are you, 95 years old?
Neat deflection!


I've never seen anything stranger than this weird guy hanging out on every Astros thread, bitter because "his Cardinals" aren't good at baseball.
Flexbone, a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball:

"I've never seen anything stranger than a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball"
That would make sense..if you weren't actively cheering for the Nationals on the World Series thread on here before this story ever came out. You're a weirdly obsessed, strange individual. I'm sorry the Cardinals aren't relevant. Maybe you shouldn't attach your self-worth to a baseball team?


Just give up man. You keep coming back here to hurl insults at a guy on a message board who you don't even know. You can try and call me names all you want but like all baseball fans, I'm gonna follow the biggest story in baseball and nothing about that is weird or obsessive.

With that being said, I'm sorry you're upset that I trolled you a few months ago. I really hope you can make peace with it and stop crying about it soon. If I'd have known it was going to affect you this long I would have refrained.
Flexbone
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lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

Flexbone said:

lda6339 said:

First Lawsuit has been filed. Since MLB has an official partnership with DraftKings I wonder if this could actually turn into something, guess we'll wait and see. Any lawyers have an preliminary opinion/comment?


I'm an attorney, and my comment is that you might be the biggest moron on this board. The Cardinals had employees GO TO JAIL and yet here you are, running your mouth about something that a TON of teams were doing. Just how big of a tool are you?

A CARDINALS fan. What are you, 95 years old?
Neat deflection!


I've never seen anything stranger than this weird guy hanging out on every Astros thread, bitter because "his Cardinals" aren't good at baseball.
Flexbone, a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball:

"I've never seen anything stranger than a guy who has been hanging out on every thread about the biggest story in baseball"
That would make sense..if you weren't actively cheering for the Nationals on the World Series thread on here before this story ever came out. You're a weirdly obsessed, strange individual. I'm sorry the Cardinals aren't relevant. Maybe you shouldn't attach your self-worth to a baseball team?


Just give up man. You keep coming back here to hurl insults at a guy on a message board who you don't even know. You can try and call me names all you want but like all baseball fans, I'm gonna follow the biggest story in baseball and nothing about that is weird or obsessive.

With that being said, I'm sorry you're upset that I trolled you a few months ago. I really hope you can make peace with it and stop crying about it soon. If I'd have known it was going to affect you this long I would have refrained.
Nobody's upset. I'm just pointing out what multiple people have to you. That you're weirdly hypocritical about all of this, and don't even seem to acknowledge your own "team's" criminal conduct in recent years in an attempt to cheat. Yet here you are, all over this.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you (and all the jealous fans on this thread) are only focusing on the Astros?

Everyone was/is doing it.
Tex100
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AG
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/angels-taylor-cole-mlb-investigate-astros-further

Angels pitcher wants 2019 investigated further.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
It does make no sense that they would do it through 2018 and not 2019.
03_Aggie
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They didn't do it "through 2018."
Flexbone
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DannyDuberstein said:

It does make no sense that they would do it through 2018 and not 2019.
They didn't do it through 2018.
Deluxe
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AG
It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
Flexbone
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Deluxe said:

It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
No it doesn't. Nor does it mean they did.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to be ignoring the reality that a ton of teams were doing this. And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Quote:

And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.


What evidence? They were doing it at home and on the road. So splits are useless.
Proposition Joe
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Flexbone said:

Deluxe said:

It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
No it doesn't. Nor does it mean they did.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to be ignoring the reality that a ton of teams were doing this. And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.

Except of course that there's only currently boatloads of verified evidence on the Astros doing it.

To on one hand say "there's no proof the Astros WERE doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they did" and on the other hand say "there's no proof other teams in baseball WEREN'T doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they weren't" are two completely incongruent statements that only Astros fans are trying to pass off as logical.


Flexbone
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Proposition Joe said:

Flexbone said:

Deluxe said:

It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
No it doesn't. Nor does it mean they did.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to be ignoring the reality that a ton of teams were doing this. And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.

Except of course that there's only currently boatloads of verified evidence on the Astros doing it.

To on one hand say "there's no proof the Astros WERE doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they did" and on the other hand say "there's no proof other teams in baseball WEREN'T doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they weren't" are two completely incongruent statements that only Astros fans are trying to pass off as logical.



No one argued that, Perry Mason. The problem with your "point" is that the Astros (and currently the Red Sox) are the only teams they've investigated re: the matter, so of course they have more evidence of them doing it vs. other teams they haven't investigated. What should be instructive to you is completely unaffiliated players and former players saying the equivalent of what Joe Musgrove just said.

I think you might need to revisit your logical reasoning text and start over.
03_Aggie
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I guess it's the same when "non Astros" fans want to point to "blatant evidence" in 2017 of the Astros doing something that two other teams admitted to doing that same year.

People seem to want to forget the issue with the Astros was that they continued to do things after MLB sent out a memo basically saying "we know team(S) are doing this, here's notice that it isn't permitted and we will hold you accountable if found doing it after the date of this memo." I believe that memo went out in September of that season so most of the "blatant evidence" isn't even part of the issue at all.
Proposition Joe
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Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

Flexbone said:

Deluxe said:

It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
No it doesn't. Nor does it mean they did.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to be ignoring the reality that a ton of teams were doing this. And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.

Except of course that there's only currently boatloads of verified evidence on the Astros doing it.

To on one hand say "there's no proof the Astros WERE doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they did" and on the other hand say "there's no proof other teams in baseball WEREN'T doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they weren't" are two completely incongruent statements that only Astros fans are trying to pass off as logical.



No one argued that, Perry Mason. The problem with your "point" is that the Astros (and currently the Red Sox) are the only teams they've investigated re: the matter, so of course they have more evidence of them doing it vs. other teams they haven't investigated. What should be instructive to you is completely unaffiliated players and former players saying the equivalent of what Joe Musgrove just said.

I think you might need to revisit your logical reasoning text and start over.

That's the equivalent of the Astros getting a DUI, people saying "lots of people drive drunk", and then assuming any one pulled over would be getting a DUI also and that the cops are just purposely not pulling over likely drunk drivers because "conspiracy".

Just because Houston cheated doesn't mean other teams did. Is it likely? Yes... Just as likely as Houston continuing to cheating 2018 and 2019 after cheating their way to a World Series in 2017. You can't assume things with the absence of facts when it fits your point, but then require facts for those things that don't fit your view.

As for the completely unaffiliated players -- there have been well over a thousand Major League Baseball players from 2017-2019. Less than 1% have made any kind of claim of cheating against other teams, and so far as I've seen zero have actually produced any proof. So the value of that is statistically insignificant.
Tex100
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AG
DannyDuberstein said:

Quote:

And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.


What evidence? They were doing it at home and on the road. So splits are useless.
How were they doing it on the road?
Flexbone
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Proposition Joe said:

Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

Flexbone said:

Deluxe said:

It seems plausible to me that they would stop when the hitters were no longer confident enough that the signs being relayed to them were accurate. I'm guessing by the start of the 2018 season, the illegal sign stealing that was going on around baseball was common knowledge in inside circles. So sign sequences became more complex and switched up more often. This led to a large decline in the degree of certainty that any given pitch relayed to the hitter was correct. And guessing after a few ABs of being told one pitch was coming, only have it be another pitch, the Astros hitters just said F it.

That doesn't mean the Astros didn't find another shady practice to engage in that may/may not have been against the rules. But it seems very plausible to me that they stopped stealing signs illegally early in 2018.
No it doesn't. Nor does it mean they did.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to be ignoring the reality that a ton of teams were doing this. And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.

Except of course that there's only currently boatloads of verified evidence on the Astros doing it.

To on one hand say "there's no proof the Astros WERE doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they did" and on the other hand say "there's no proof other teams in baseball WEREN'T doing anything wrong in 2018 or 2019 so there's no reason to believe they weren't" are two completely incongruent statements that only Astros fans are trying to pass off as logical.



No one argued that, Perry Mason. The problem with your "point" is that the Astros (and currently the Red Sox) are the only teams they've investigated re: the matter, so of course they have more evidence of them doing it vs. other teams they haven't investigated. What should be instructive to you is completely unaffiliated players and former players saying the equivalent of what Joe Musgrove just said.

I think you might need to revisit your logical reasoning text and start over.

That's the equivalent of the Astros getting a DUI, people saying "lots of people drive drunk", and then assuming any one pulled over would be getting a DUI also and that the cops are just purposely not pulling over likely drunk drivers because "conspiracy".

Just because Houston cheated doesn't mean other teams did. Is it likely? Yes... Just as likely as Houston continuing to cheating 2018 and 2019 after cheating their way to a World Series in 2017. You can't assume things with the absence of facts when it fits your point, but then require facts for those things that don't fit your view.

As for the completely unaffiliated players -- there have been well over a thousand Major League Baseball players from 2017-2019. Less than 1% have made any kind of claim of cheating against other teams, and so far as I've seen zero have actually produced any proof. So the value of that is statistically insignificant.
Wow. What an incredible mishmash of logical fallacies and false equivalencies. Who's requiring facts for things that don't fit their point? I'm not assuming anything re: 2018 and 2019 - that's what the investigation concluded.

Your argument is that so far there is only ample evidence of cheating by one team. There's about to be two. And there are multiple players and former players that are completely unattached to either that have said that a ton of other teams do it. I linked an article earlier FROM 2017 that the Yankees and Joe Girardi assumed everyone was doing it. You're acting like those statements aren't relevant simply because there's not the same level of evidence against those teams as there is against the Astros. These are people with inside knowledge of multiple other organizations who have no dog in the fight. These are respected people, Hall of Famers. John Smoltz? Will Clark? Multiple other players.

The gaping hole in your argument is the fact that your weighing evidence relatively when that's an unfair comparison because the same level of investigation hasn't been done for 28 other teams.
Proposition Joe
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No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Tex100 said:

DannyDuberstein said:

Quote:

And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.


What evidence? They were doing it at home and on the road. So splits are useless.
How were they doing it on the road?
I'm just citing the WSJ/ESPN article from last week with background on how it was developed and said they used it both places. So I'd guess they were doing it similar to the way they were doing it at home, although I'd guess the monitor they were using probably wasn't as robust as at home. It's not exactly complicated these days to both video and watch video.


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28655757/report-astros-front-office-laid-groundwork-codebreaker-sign-stealing-program
Quote:

According to the WSJ, the Excel-based application designed to decode opposing catchers' signs was used throughout the 2017 season and for part of 2018 by Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers both at home and on the road.

Staffers would log the catcher's signs and subsequent pitches into a spreadsheet and "Codebreaker" would determine how the signs related to different pitches. The information would then be communicated to the hitter by a baserunner via an intermediary


Deluxe
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AG
Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.
I can't believe I'm dragging myself into this but equating the likelihood of other teams cheating vs the ~18/19 Astros cheating leaves out one very important piece of evidence:

Rob Manfred put his career on the line by asserting (based on a two month investigation) the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat. He has not investigated nor has he made any such claim about another team pending the Red Sox investigation.

That doesn't mean the ~18/19 Astros for sure did not cheat. Nor does it mean other teams for sure did cheat. But it does mean you can't equate the likelihood of the two events.
Proposition Joe
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Deluxe said:

Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.
I can't believe I'm dragging myself into this but equating the likelihood of other teams cheating vs the ~18/19 Astros cheating leaves out one very important piece of evidence:

Rob Manfred put his career on the line by asserting (based on a two month investigation) the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat. He has not investigated nor has he made any such claim about another team pending the Red Sox investigation.

That doesn't mean the ~18/19 Astros for sure did not cheat. Nor does it mean other teams for sure did cheat. But it does mean you can't equate the likelihood of the two events.

Career on the line? The guy is suggesting reality-TV playoff "choose your date" broadcasts... How hard he did or didn't investigate the 18/19 Houston Astros isn't going to matter squat to his career.

Again, people want to have it both ways... Is Manfred covering up a scandal that would rock all of baseball by not looking into other teams, but he just went all out in investigating the 2018 and 2019 Astros? As others have said, as commissioner he wants all of this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible... So either we trust the evidence we have, or we make assumptions based on what we think is likely -- you can't cherry pick what suits your fandom.

I'd say the likelihood of a PROVEN cheater in 2017 that had success and had yet to be caught continuing to cheat in 2018 and 2019 pretty damn likely. I consider there being another team out there (aside from HOU/BOS) with an intricate cheating system post-2017-memo that hasn't been outed by the thousands of twitter blowhards out there or by the next Athletic writer or guy-in-his-mom's-basement-that-is-on-the-spectrum poring over thousands of games and statistics still *likely* but not near as likely as someone continuing to do what they've already been proven to do.
Deluxe
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AG
Proposition Joe said:

Deluxe said:

Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.
I can't believe I'm dragging myself into this but equating the likelihood of other teams cheating vs the ~18/19 Astros cheating leaves out one very important piece of evidence:

Rob Manfred put his career on the line by asserting (based on a two month investigation) the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat. He has not investigated nor has he made any such claim about another team pending the Red Sox investigation.

That doesn't mean the ~18/19 Astros for sure did not cheat. Nor does it mean other teams for sure did cheat. But it does mean you can't equate the likelihood of the two events.

Career on the line? The guy is suggesting reality-TV playoff "choose your date" broadcasts... How hard he did or didn't investigate the 18/19 Houston Astros isn't going to matter squat to his career.

Again, people want to have it both ways... Is Manfred covering up a scandal that would rock all of baseball by not looking into other teams, but he just went all out in investigating the 2018 and 2019 Astros? As others have said, as commissioner he wants all of this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible... So either we trust the evidence we have, or we make assumptions based on what we think is likely -- you can't cherry pick what suits your fandom.

I'd say the likelihood of a PROVEN cheater in 2017 that had success and had yet to be caught continuing to cheat in 2018 and 2019 pretty damn likely. I consider there being another team out there (aside from HOU/BOS) with an intricate cheating system post-2017-memo that hasn't been outed by the thousands of twitter blowhards out there or by the next Athletic writer or guy-in-his-mom's-basement-that-is-on-the-spectrum poring over thousands of games and statistics still *likely* but not near as likely as someone continuing to do what they've already been proven to do.
Most of your points are irrelevant to my point. I think it would be a disaster for Rob Manfred if he issued a report saying the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat and it later comes out that they did. But I suppose that's where we disagree.
Proposition Joe
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Deluxe said:

Proposition Joe said:

Deluxe said:

Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.
I can't believe I'm dragging myself into this but equating the likelihood of other teams cheating vs the ~18/19 Astros cheating leaves out one very important piece of evidence:

Rob Manfred put his career on the line by asserting (based on a two month investigation) the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat. He has not investigated nor has he made any such claim about another team pending the Red Sox investigation.

That doesn't mean the ~18/19 Astros for sure did not cheat. Nor does it mean other teams for sure did cheat. But it does mean you can't equate the likelihood of the two events.

Career on the line? The guy is suggesting reality-TV playoff "choose your date" broadcasts... How hard he did or didn't investigate the 18/19 Houston Astros isn't going to matter squat to his career.

Again, people want to have it both ways... Is Manfred covering up a scandal that would rock all of baseball by not looking into other teams, but he just went all out in investigating the 2018 and 2019 Astros? As others have said, as commissioner he wants all of this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible... So either we trust the evidence we have, or we make assumptions based on what we think is likely -- you can't cherry pick what suits your fandom.

I'd say the likelihood of a PROVEN cheater in 2017 that had success and had yet to be caught continuing to cheat in 2018 and 2019 pretty damn likely. I consider there being another team out there (aside from HOU/BOS) with an intricate cheating system post-2017-memo that hasn't been outed by the thousands of twitter blowhards out there or by the next Athletic writer or guy-in-his-mom's-basement-that-is-on-the-spectrum poring over thousands of games and statistics still *likely* but not near as likely as someone continuing to do what they've already been proven to do.
Most of your points are irrelevant to my point. I think it would be a disaster for Rob Manfred if he issued a report saying the ~18/19 Astros didn't cheat and it later comes out that they did. But I suppose that's where we disagree.

I honestly might have agreed with you more before he floated his latest playoff idea publicly.

But I don't think it would have been a disaster. I think the accusations were against the 2017 Astros and that is where he concentrated his investigation. That's not to say he ignored 2018/2019, but minus any smoking gun I'm sure part of his thinking was he was simply deciding if Houston DID violate the post-memo rules... for long how they did so before they got caught (especially in two years where they weren't declared the best team in baseball) wasn't as significant to deduce.

NBCSports said it well: "Which is to say that Rob Manfred's investigation has, at every turn, been limited to that which publicly-released information has required him to investigate. It has, like so many internal investigations in the corporate and political spheres, been limited to that which had to be investigated and revealed in order to put out a public relations fire, not to root out and solve a problem in a substantive way."
Deluxe
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AG
Haha yea, the playoff idea was bad for the Astros in that it lowered Manfred's credibility level.
Tex100
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AG
DannyDuberstein said:

Tex100 said:

DannyDuberstein said:

Quote:

And the evidence shows that it really didn't help.


What evidence? They were doing it at home and on the road. So splits are useless.
How were they doing it on the road?
I'm just citing the WSJ/ESPN article from last week with background on how it was developed and said they used it both places. So I'd guess they were doing it similar to the way they were doing it at home, although I'd guess the monitor they were using probably wasn't as robust as at home. It's not exactly complicated these days to both video and watch video.


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28655757/report-astros-front-office-laid-groundwork-codebreaker-sign-stealing-program
Quote:

According to the WSJ, the Excel-based application designed to decode opposing catchers' signs was used throughout the 2017 season and for part of 2018 by Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers both at home and on the road.

Staffers would log the catcher's signs and subsequent pitches into a spreadsheet and "Codebreaker" would determine how the signs related to different pitches. The information would then be communicated to the hitter by a baserunner via an intermediary



Where would the camera be on the road?
AustinAg2K
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I think the WSJ article is misleading. What they describe doesn't sound like live decoding of the signals, but rather decoding after the fact and then using the information the next time they play. That's different than the trash can thing, which they were watching video real time.
Proposition Joe
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Quote:

by Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers both at home and on the road.

Staffers would log the catcher's signs and subsequent pitches into a spreadsheet and "Codebreaker" would determine how the signs related to different pitches. The information would then be communicated to the hitter by a baserunner via an intermediary
03_Aggie
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AustinAg2K said:

I think the WSJ article is misleading. What they describe doesn't sound like live decoding of the signals, but rather decoding after the fact and then using the information the next time they play. That's different than the trash can thing, which they were watching video real time.


They decoded the sequence and then relayed the "order" to a runner on base so they could then relay to the hitter.

Still used technology to decode the sign but used the "traditional" way to actually steal it and relay it to the hitter. Truthfully it's a gray area. They weren't actually using technology to steal signs, just to decode the sequence being used.
Flexbone
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Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.

Do you understand that player's statements about what they know is considered "evidence"?

You're not "weighing" evidence. You're citing the only evidence you believe to be evidence as a result of only 1 investigation thats been conducted. You're also ignoring the fact that it's obvious that baseball isn't likely very interested in opening up more investigations into other teams that were also doing it because a "scandal" like that would be a terrible look just a decade removed from the Mitchell Report.

We get it. You like a team that doesn't win and want to discredit the Astros. Do you celebrate the Rangers' roofed up division champions from the 90's?
Proposition Joe
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Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.

Do you understand that player's statements about what they know is considered "evidence"?

You're not "weighing" evidence. You're citing the only evidence you believe to be evidence as a result of only 1 investigation thats been conducted. You're also ignoring the fact that it's obvious that baseball isn't likely very interested in opening up more investigations into other teams that were also doing it because a "scandal" like that would be a terrible look just a decade removed from the Mitchell Report.

Sounds like you are only interested in the "evidence" that supports your fandom.
LDA9336
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AG
Flexbone said:

Proposition Joe said:

No im weighing the actual evidence. Not what i assume or hope to be true about other teams.

Now, if we want to disregard evidence and go based on likelihoods then sure - other teams were doing it... and the astros continued to do it in 2018 and 2019.

We get it. You like a team that doesn't win and want to discredit the Astros. Do you celebrate the Rangers' roofed up division champions from the 90's?
Have you ever written a post defending your team without deflecting to another team? Have you noticed you have very few stars in this thread? I'd wager its because stars are rewarded to those who actually contribute to the discussion.

Try not to take this as personal as you took my posting during Game 7 or as personal as you seem to take me following this biggest story in baseball, I'm just making observations here.
03_Aggie
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Quote:

Have you ever written a post defending your team without deflecting to another team? Have you noticed you have very few stars in this thread? I'd wager its because stars are rewarded to those who actually contribute to the discussion.


Setting aside the lameness of blue star smack, you'd be wrong. Any anti Astros statement gets starred by the bitter Rangers' blue star brigade.
Proposition Joe
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I mean, one can assume people's side in things are going to skew towards the team they are or aren't a fan of.

That doesn't change basic logic fallacies though. And for the most part I think Houston fans would pretty much agree that if they are going to just assume every other team is doing it then it's fair to assume that Houston did it post-2017.

It would be like a Rangers fan saying "All other teams were doing steroids too... but the only Rangers that were doing it were the ones that got caught!"

As for Flexbone, defending something without any logic is kind of his shtick. I believe he's the guy that after TCU beat us 2-out-of-3 in the super regionals a while back was proclaiming we were actually the better team. If the final score doesn't support what he thinks it should, he'll jump through logic hoops to frame it in a way that makes him right. Which I guess is what works for him as a lawyer... You don't actually have to prove anything with facts, just repeat nonsense enough times that a few idiots on the jury will think it's logical.
 
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