Astros offseason thread

351,474 Views | 2990 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by spadilly
NotGibbs
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Just saw he's supposed to have a power breaking ball too. Seems pretty uncharacteristic of the stros to go after a guy with a lot of movement on his off speed...

Seems like this was a high risk / high reward pick. He's pitched for a very short amount of time, but it looks like he's had solid stuff. We'll see if he's still with the club at the end of the season or if he's shipped back to the rangers
Mathguy64
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Its Rule 5. The chances of finding a quality MLB player are slim. Its a cheap gamble. You just have to be willing to cut your losses if it doesnt pan out because you cant burn a 25 man roster spot all season on a bust.
MAROON
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Quote:

Seems pretty uncharacteristic of the stros to go after a guy with a lot of movement on his off speed...
sarcasm I presume?
iBrad
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So the Rangers sign Gose December 4 to a free agent deal and we take him 10 days later via the Rule 5 draft. Please let this guy pan out.
rosco511
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I would consider this low risk and high reward. We do not lose anything if he does not stick, but based on description of his stuff, he has potential to be a difference maker.
NotGibbs
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rosco511 said:

I would consider this low risk and high reward. We do not lose anything if he does not stick, but based on description of his stuff, he has potential to be a difference maker.


Theoretically, you lose a FA signing if he doesn't pan out and finish the season with the club. That forces you to plug in a guy from the minor leagues
rosco511
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The spot a rule 5 guy takes is most likely a guy in the minors. It is very unlikely that a team decides not to sign a FA because of a rule 5 pick.
shano0603
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Very Tolerant Nice Guy said:

anybody else really not feel satisfied going into next year with Giles as closer?

The fact that most think Giles was awful is very laughable. There aren't enough Jansens and Kimbrels to go around. Take some time and go look at the rest of the leagues closers and stats, then tell me you don't want Giles.
DVC2010
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I'm not worried about the end of Giles's season for the same reason I'm not impressed by Liriano's. Anything can happen in a small enough sample.
Mathguy64
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The only reason to worry about Giles' stuff is if MLB bought those playoff baseballs in bulk. It's pretty clear something was off because the issue he had was affecting tons of guys and they didn't all forget how to throw sliders all of a sudden. I would be more worried about what's between his ears.
Frok
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I just don't think Giles is that good. He's serviceable. But even when he's doing well statistically he often makes the game dramatic in the end.

Hopefully he can forget his awful post-season he just had. A ring might help that.

Quote:

MLB bought those playoff baseballs in bulk. It's pretty clear something was off because the issue he had was affecting tons of guys and they didn't all forget how to throw sliders all of a sudden


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?

MAROON
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they didn't mean to do it, just happened as part of the manufacturing process. I think there is something to it when many of the pitchers said the ball felt different (slicker).

I read they blindfolded McCullers and he could pick out the regular season vs the playoff ball just based on feel.
Mathguy64
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Frok said:


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?


I dont think MLB meant to do it on purpose and I'm sure they QC/QA the crap out of those balls, but all of the pitchers complained about the slickness and tons of guys who threw hard sliders all had the same issues.
WES2006AG
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Frok said:

I just don't think Giles is that good. He's serviceable. But even when he's doing well statistically he often makes the game dramatic in the end.

Hopefully he can forget his awful post-season he just had. A ring might help that.

Quote:

MLB bought those playoff baseballs in bulk. It's pretty clear something was off because the issue he had was affecting tons of guys and they didn't all forget how to throw sliders all of a sudden


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?


Why would so many pitchers think the ball was different if it wasn't? Whether they intended to change them or not the balls were clearly different for the World Series.
Ag_07
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Frok said:


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?

The conspiracy theorists will say it's because offense sells.

Me personally I don't think it was done on purpose but something was obviously up with the way most pitchers suddenly forgot how to throw a slider.

Lot of smoke for there not to be a fire.

Ag_07
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As for Giles he's an upper tier closer. He was absolutely rolling up until the playoffs.

If we start to see his playoff struggles spill over into 2018 early on then I'll get concerned. Otherwise he's our guy.
Farmer1906
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I am over the closer role. Giles is apart of our staff. He's a plus arm. I want more plus arms. Call them whatever you want.
Frok
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Nevermind, I'm derailing the offseason thread into baseball conspiracies

Farmer1906
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Frok said:

mathguy86 said:

Frok said:


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?


I dont think MLB meant to do it on purpose and I'm sure they QC/QA the crap out of those balls, but all of the pitchers complained about the slickness and tons of guys who threw hard sliders all had the same issues.


Which pitchers outside of Darvish and Giles also struggled with sliders because of the slick ball? They seem to be the two everyone focuses on.


https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-baseballs-leather-justin-verlander-yu-darvish-ken-giles-kenley-jansen

"It's obvious," Strom said about the World Series ball being slicker. "You can see it and you can feel it. It's not the same. Someone's got to explain to me why."

"Lance McCullers took the blindfold test in the bullpen," said Charlie Morton, Houston's Game 4 starter, referring to another Astros pitcher. "He could tell which ball was which with his eyes closed. It's that different."

Said Houston pitcher Justin Verlander, "The World Series ball is slicker. No doubt. I'm telling you, we're in here signing [World Series] balls before the game, and it's hard to get the ink on the ball sometimes. You know when you sign a receipt at Starbucks, and if you don't hold the paper down with your hand, the pen just slides across the paper and the ink doesn't stick to it? That's what it's like sometimes trying to sign these balls. That's how slick the leather is. "It's different. I noticed it especially throwing a slider. It didn't feel the same. The home run I gave up to [Joc] Pederson was a slider."

Said Darvish, "I had trouble with the ball throwing a slider. It was slicker."

"It affects running my two-seamer in to righthanders," said Morton, who hit 97 mph with his two-seam fastball. "When the ball is slick you can't throw in with the same aggressiveness. If you don't have control of the baseball, you might end somebody's career. That's a very bad thought to have in your head.
Farmer1906
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Frok said:

Nevermind, I'm derailing the offseason thread into baseball conspiracies


Too late. I already answered it. At this point, I don't think it is debatable that the balls were different and made an impact. Now the reason why is debatable. Saying MLB did it for the offense is not crazy. It may not be right, but it is not outside of the realm of possibilities.
irish pete ag06
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Farmer1906 said:

Frok said:

mathguy86 said:

Frok said:


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?


I dont think MLB meant to do it on purpose and I'm sure they QC/QA the crap out of those balls, but all of the pitchers complained about the slickness and tons of guys who threw hard sliders all had the same issues.


Which pitchers outside of Darvish and Giles also struggled with sliders because of the slick ball? They seem to be the two everyone focuses on.


https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-baseballs-leather-justin-verlander-yu-darvish-ken-giles-kenley-jansen

"It's obvious," Strom said about the World Series ball being slicker. "You can see it and you can feel it. It's not the same. Someone's got to explain to me why."

"Lance McCullers took the blindfold test in the bullpen," said Charlie Morton, Houston's Game 4 starter, referring to another Astros pitcher. "He could tell which ball was which with his eyes closed. It's that different."

Said Houston pitcher Justin Verlander, "The World Series ball is slicker. No doubt. I'm telling you, we're in here signing [World Series] balls before the game, and it's hard to get the ink on the ball sometimes. You know when you sign a receipt at Starbucks, and if you don't hold the paper down with your hand, the pen just slides across the paper and the ink doesn't stick to it? That's what it's like sometimes trying to sign these balls. That's how slick the leather is. "It's different. I noticed it especially throwing a slider. It didn't feel the same. The home run I gave up to [Joc] Pederson was a slider."

Said Darvish, "I had trouble with the ball throwing a slider. It was slicker."

"It affects running my two-seamer in to righthanders," said Morton, who hit 97 mph with his two-seam fastball. "When the ball is slick you can't throw in with the same aggressiveness. If you don't have control of the baseball, you might end somebody's career. That's a very bad thought to have in your head.
That's crazy on the blind fold test with LMJ. Think about it, if you're the hitter and your pitchers are telling you that they can't throw slider and you are facing Giles, who's scouting report is 99 mph flat fastball and a power slider. I go sit fastball all day and crush.
Farmer1906
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irish pete ag06 said:

Farmer1906 said:

Frok said:

mathguy86 said:

Frok said:


I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Why would baseball all of a sudden change the balls for no reason?


I dont think MLB meant to do it on purpose and I'm sure they QC/QA the crap out of those balls, but all of the pitchers complained about the slickness and tons of guys who threw hard sliders all had the same issues.


Which pitchers outside of Darvish and Giles also struggled with sliders because of the slick ball? They seem to be the two everyone focuses on.


https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-baseballs-leather-justin-verlander-yu-darvish-ken-giles-kenley-jansen

"It's obvious," Strom said about the World Series ball being slicker. "You can see it and you can feel it. It's not the same. Someone's got to explain to me why."

"Lance McCullers took the blindfold test in the bullpen," said Charlie Morton, Houston's Game 4 starter, referring to another Astros pitcher. "He could tell which ball was which with his eyes closed. It's that different."

Said Houston pitcher Justin Verlander, "The World Series ball is slicker. No doubt. I'm telling you, we're in here signing [World Series] balls before the game, and it's hard to get the ink on the ball sometimes. You know when you sign a receipt at Starbucks, and if you don't hold the paper down with your hand, the pen just slides across the paper and the ink doesn't stick to it? That's what it's like sometimes trying to sign these balls. That's how slick the leather is. "It's different. I noticed it especially throwing a slider. It didn't feel the same. The home run I gave up to [Joc] Pederson was a slider."

Said Darvish, "I had trouble with the ball throwing a slider. It was slicker."

"It affects running my two-seamer in to righthanders," said Morton, who hit 97 mph with his two-seam fastball. "When the ball is slick you can't throw in with the same aggressiveness. If you don't have control of the baseball, you might end somebody's career. That's a very bad thought to have in your head.
That's crazy on the blind fold test with LMJ. Think about it, if you're the hitter and your pitchers are telling you that they can't throw slider and you are facing Giles, who's scouting report is 99 mph flat fastball and a power slider. I go sit fastball all day and crush.
Same article.

No pitcher is having a worse time with his slider lately than Houston closer Ken Giles. During the regular season, Giles threw his slider 47 percent of the time and held hitters to a .133 batting average with it. But the pitch has been so unreliable in the postseason that Giles threw only two sliders among his eight pitches in Game 4 both of them balls. Entering a 1-1 game to start the ninth inning, Giles faced three batters and retired none of them. He was charged with three runs and the loss.

During the regular season Giles threw his slider out of the strike zone 51 percent of the time. In the postseason he has missed with that pitch a whopping 74 percent of the time, including 75 percent in the World Series (9 of 12). Able to eliminate the slider, Dodgers hitters are sitting on his fastball and teeing off on it. They are hitting .800 against his fastball (4-for-5), with all of those hits coming on hitters' counts or first pitches (2-1, 3-1, 1-0 and 0-0).
Frok
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Sorry guys, I created a monster. But at least we are talking baseball.

I personally don't believe the balls are to blame for Giles and Darvish's performance in the post-season. We can agree to disagree.

CoachRTM
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Bottom line, even if the baseballs were the exact same, there was a big mental hurdle in front of throwing the slider.

New year, back to normal baseballs, and Giles is back to the B+/ A- closer that he is.
iBrad
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I just wish Giles could get a little action on his fastball. He throws one of the most hittable 99 mph fastball in the bigs.
Agnzona
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They can certainly rub the balls down more.
Ag_07
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Agnzona said:

They can certainly rub the balls down more.

I hear Rougned is looking for offseason work.
exp
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dead straight fastball

But I agree with the thinking he's a plus arm, even if he's not a top 5 closer by any stretch of the imagination.
Mr.Bond
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great buddy of mine painted this. He is selling original and prints. Absolutely amazing painting of game 5 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1156730181125199&id=1100094450122106
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

MosesHallRAB04
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And it's not like kimbrel, Jansen, and Chapman were invincible in the playoffs.

Unless the Astros crushing them all was just a dream I had.
CSWendt
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I took about a month off from watching the WS games over, just let it sink in and give my heart a rest.....

Started watching highlights of game 2, 5, and 7 this week. This will never get old!
astros4545
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Astros sign Hector Rondon

Based on baseball ref stats, looks like a real good middle relief signing
Ag_07
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Not sure I get this one

He did have 30 and 29 saves in '14 and '15 with the Cubs, but looks like he took a step back in '16 and '17 with ERAs in the 3-4.50 range.

Guess this is a Jeff Lunhow special.
NotGibbs
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Not a fan of this one. I feel like he'll probably be earning the most angry emojis on the 2018 season thread
Farmer1906
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What is not to get? He's another bullpen arm. He's got quality stuff. Not every add is going to be a "closer".
 
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