DallasAggie97 said:

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I'm sure the Astros feel that it was worth it. They have the trophy still.

Cheating pays.

Vacate WS2017.

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Dont you have a dumpster fire in your new stadium to go put out?

TxAgPreacher said:

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It would be like me having a game night at my house, and we were playing cards, and house rules were that everyone had an ipad and could peek at everyone's cards, then when everyone is doing it openly the guy that is losing grabs the rule book and says hey look the guy that's winning is cheating. Then everyone else puts down their ipads and agrees to punish the guy in the lead.

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It's like you're hiding dead rats in the wall, and I have to find all of them to make the stench go away. This is #3. Are there more?

They were told to stop multiple times
They didn't stop, flat out ignored the commissioner.

They're their own worst enemy. Arrogance caught up to them. And just in October Hinch said something incredibly dumb about this.

Hard to feel sorry for them. Cora on the other hand, that dude might end up on the ineligible list, the arrogance is insane.

Both organizations and their fans will likely feel like it was worth it.

Teams won the World Series. Would teams trade WS titles for not being labeled as cheaters? I think not.

Need to vacate titles like in college football.

If enough good teams get investigated and have their managers fired, the Rangers might be able to contend for the wild card next year.

DallasAggie97 said:

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Need to vacate titles like in college football.

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so every world series ever? Because pretty sure every team stole signs, used steroids, or abused drugs.

DallasAggie97 said:

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The Astros will be remembered like Barry Bonds. He holds the home run record, but we know that he cheated to get it. He's not celebrated for his accomplishment by anyone outside of San Francisco.

The 2017 Astros won the World Series, but we all know that they cheated. We all know that they are cheaters. Their manager allowed it to continue. Their fans likely are still proud of their 2017 title and don't mind that they are cheaters.

Tainted.

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Tainted? Maybe so. Banner is still there and always will be. Don't care about an asterisk because it's clear everyone does it, we just probably did it best. Keep whining, I find it enjoyable. Go stros!

Shife said:

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I guess we had monitors in LA, too?

And this poor, disgruntled team is going to open the season with verlander and the first or second best lineup in baseball and will be one of the favorites to win again. Hell, I never like hinches style that much anyways.

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I guess we had monitors in LA, too?

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Maybe Yu doesn't give up 4 ER in Game 7 if he didn't give up 4 ER in Game 3 in Minute Maid.

Maybe it never gets to Game 7 if you don't win Game 3.

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And this poor, disgruntled team is going to open the season with verlander and the first or second best lineup in baseball and will be one of the favorites to win again. Hell, I never like hinches style that much anyways.

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You just lost the WS to a 93 win team with a better team than you will field next year.

While you aren't wrong that you will be a favorite, this is why people aren't liking Astros fans.

South Platte said:

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BassCowboy33 said:

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South Platte said:

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bigcat22 said:

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"Take the ring." Considering this is the guy that took my team's World Series title away with a rope off the right field wall, this is just too ironic for me.

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Be honest with yourself. Nelson Cruz took away that championship by misjudging a fly ball.

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People act like it was a lazy fly to the warning track. Look at the STL bench at 3:20.

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It wasn't "easy", but it's a play an MLB outfielder should make. Cruz was always below average in the field, and Washington deserves some blame for not pulling for a better defensive option.

diehard03 said:

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Quote:

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And this poor, disgruntled team is going to open the season with verlander and the first or second best lineup in baseball and will be one of the favorites to win again. Hell, I never like hinches style that much anyways.

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You just lost the WS to a 93 win team with a better team than you will field next year.

While you aren't wrong that you will be a favorite, this is why people aren't liking Astros fans.

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The Nats also beat the Dodgers, who most would agree were also a better team. Better teams don't always win, that's why they play the game.

DallasAggie97 said:

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Aggies don't lie, cheat or steal. Or tolerate those that do.

Some of y'all apparently don't believe in the Aggie Honor Code.

You'll tolerate cheating if it results in winning a World Series.

Hypocrites.

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I think we'll tolerate it when it's accepted that most teams do it, yet we came out on top. There's a reason many players across the MLB are staying quiet about this. I won't argue that the Astros didn't take it too far, but they're paying for it now and life will go on.

How are they paying?

A fine? Big deal. They made a ton of money in that postseason and the results (higher season ticket sales, merchandise).

And they still have their trophy. They even have fans that still gloat about it, even though they won it by cheating. Their fans still support them.

To me they'll be like Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa....

DallasAggie97 said:

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Aggies don't lie, cheat or steal. Or tolerate those that do.

Some of y'all apparently don't believe in the Aggie Honor Code.

You'll tolerate cheating if it results in winning a World Series.

Hypocrites.

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A bit of hyperbole, but it's a point to be made. Many Aggie/Astro fans are mad as hell about how our team took it too far over the line in '17 and ruined some great memories. I wish like hell it hadn't happened. I think we had a good enough team to win without any shenanigans, as suggested by the road record and winning WS games in LA. I'm extremely disappointed that such an awesome year and result (in the wake of so much personal loss, mine included, from the storm) is now permanently smeared. Before any of you read beyond this point, make no mistake, I do not fall into the "they did nothing wrong" and "everyone else was doing it so no harm no foul" camps.

That said, since you have specifically raised the claim of hypocrisy, let's extend your own standard. All teams- including the Rangers and Astros- should disavow any success, individual records and hardware from the steroid era. That was blatant cheating also. Records changed, trophies won, incentives reached... and players (teams) who did not juice were punished with smaller contracts and less recognition. Do you feel your team did anything wrong in allowing players like A-Rod, Juan Gonzales and Josh Hamilton keep their MVP trophies while shooting up in the locker room? If there is a difference, I guess it's that the Rangers failed to win anything despite that cheating. I'd include Ken Caminiti (steroids), Joe Niekro (scuffing) and Billy Hatcher (corking) as belonging to Houston short-cutters that resulted in no Astros trophies. It doesn't diminish the actions just because there are no results to justify.

I'll still root for my Astros and you your Rangers- they are our teams. We can hate the past and remain loyal to the future. For my team's past, the Astros knowingly jumped off a cliff to their own peril. But be careful because there's a nearby slippery slope for all the finger pointers. Be sure to reassess your team's history once you step off your soapbox.

DallasAggie97 said:

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How are they paying?

A fine? Big deal. They made a ton of money in that postseason and the results (higher season ticket sales, merchandise).

And they still have their trophy. They even have fans that still gloat about it, even though they won it by cheating. Their fans still support them.

To me they'll be like Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa....

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I'm sure you were a huge Astros fan before this came out, right? No astros fan cares about what the haters think. Arlingtonians are always going to hate on Houston, especially when they win and compete for WS while Arlington struggles to crawl out of the basement.

DallasAggie97 said:

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Aggies don't lie, cheat or steal. Or tolerate those that do.

Some of y'all apparently don't believe in the Aggie Honor Code.

You'll tolerate cheating if it results in winning a World Series.

Hypocrites.

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I'm unable to say it as eloquently as Marvin did above, but the Aggies have unfortunately been caught cheating in the past as well. Does that mean we can never be fans of them again? Do we need to vacate the wins under Jackie?

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The Nats also beat the Dodgers, who most would agree were also a better team. Better teams don't always win, that's why they play the game.

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Even more reason that having false bravado about how good you will be 2020 is completely nonsensical.

DallasAggie97 said:

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How are the Rangers involved in this scandal? Why do y'all even bring them up?

Deflection?

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I only brought it up bc of your username. If I was wrong, I'll apologize.

Cromagnum said:

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Or your team can try to cheat, but suck at that too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.barstoolsports.com/newyork/michael-young-and-the-texas-rangers-tried-to-cheat-against-mariano-rivera-but-still-couldnt-touch-him

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Hey, come back to the Texas off-season thread so staff can ban you.

diehard03 said:

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The Nats also beat the Dodgers, who most would agree were also a better team. Better teams don't always win, that's why they play the game.

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Even more reason that having false bravado about how good you will be 2020 is completely nonsensical.

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False bravado? I said we'd be one of the favorites to win it, which we will. That doesn't mean we'll definitely win....

Chipotlemonger said:

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So, they cheated to lose?

Those Rangers that juiced in the 90s are also cheaters.

I don't know how me saying that affects the taint of the Astros title. I guess that makes you feel better that I said that? I'm not a Ranger fan, by the way, so I don't care that you had that pent up anger towards them.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, Gonzalez, 2017 Astros.

All cheaters.