gambochaman said:

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rgag12 said:

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gambochaman said:

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rgag12 said:

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Tom Hagen said:

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Cappo said:

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Astros are trash

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And 2017 World Champions*, and 2018 AL Champions.

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How does it feel that the city of Houston can't win anything without cheating?

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they didnt win because of the cheating

they won because they were the best team

HTH

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Best cheaters? Absolutely

Look, I'm sorry the Astros are going to be known as baseball's dirtiest cheaters for a VERY long time, and that 2017* has an asterisk now.

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your level of hatred is quite pathetic...rangers fan i assume?

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bigcat22 said:

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South Platte said:

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bigcat22 said:

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"Take the ring." Considering this is the guy that took my team's World Series title away with a rope off the right field wall, this is just too ironic for me.

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DTP02 said:

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I'm not a huge MLB guy until the playoffs but I follow and root for both the Astros and Rangers (yes, it's possible, although it used to be easier when they were in different leagues). Thought I should get that out of the way before I ask my questions:

I've heard that the Astros road record was better than their home record (I think I heard that this was true in both 2017 and 2019), is this true? If this isn't true you can disregard the rest of this post.

If the Astros had a better road vs home record,, is there any allegation that the Astros were cheating on the road as well?

If they weren't cheating on the road, is there some other explanation (this seems unlikely) that would explain the road vs home discrepancy and also suggest that it would have been even more pronounced if not for the cheating at home?

If there isn't some explanation for the discrepancy in terms of how the roster was set up or something, then it looks like the Astros either didn't benefit significantly from the cheating, or were even hurt by the cheating. I could see it being a detriment if the hitters were distracted from their routines by listening for the bangs or whatever.

If the Astros didn't benefit from the cheating, then I don't see that the asterisk talk is justified. Punish them for attempting to cheat and gain an advantage, but if they didn't actually gain an advantage then the team's accomplishment isn't sullied at all.

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DTP02 said:

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I asked this on another thread but thought I'd ask here as well.

DTP02 said:

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I'm not a huge MLB guy until the playoffs but I follow and root for both the Astros and Rangers (yes, it's possible, although it used to be easier when they were in different leagues). Thought I should get that out of the way before I ask my questions:

I've heard that the Astros road record was better than their home record (I think I heard that this was true in both 2017 and 2019), is this true? If this isn't true you can disregard the rest of this post.

If the Astros had a better road vs home record,, is there any allegation that the Astros were cheating on the road as well?

If they weren't cheating on the road, is there some other explanation (this seems unlikely) that would explain the road vs home discrepancy and also suggest that it would have been even more pronounced if not for the cheating at home?

If there isn't some explanation for the discrepancy in terms of how the roster was set up or something, then it looks like the Astros either didn't benefit significantly from the cheating, or were even hurt by the cheating. I could see it being a detriment if the hitters were distracted from their routines by listening for the bangs or whatever.

If the Astros didn't benefit from the cheating, then I don't see that the asterisk talk is justified. Punish them for attempting to cheat and gain an advantage, but if they didn't actually gain an advantage then the team's accomplishment isn't sullied at all.

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BassCowboy33 said:

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South Platte said:

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bigcat22 said:

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"Take the ring." Considering this is the guy that took my team's World Series title away with a rope off the right field wall, this is just too ironic for me.

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Be honest with yourself. Nelson Cruz took away that championship by misjudging a fly ball.

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cc10106 said:

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Not happening but keep crying, chubs fan.

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South Platte said:

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BassCowboy33 said:

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South Platte said:

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bigcat22 said:

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"Take the ring." Considering this is the guy that took my team's World Series title away with a rope off the right field wall, this is just too ironic for me.

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Be honest with yourself. Nelson Cruz took away that championship by misjudging a fly ball.

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People act like it was a lazy fly to the warning track. Look at the STL bench at 3:20.

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03_Aggie said:

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A nationals fan because being a rangers fan is too embarrassing at the moment.

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03_Aggie said:

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I'm good. "Slowed down and amplified" videos posted by some internet smo that's a Yankees fan doesn't move the needle for me. No need to scour the Internet for that type of "evidence".

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Ag_07 said:

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Maybe it's from the third base coach looking in. Maybe it's from how the catcher sets up.

Hell who says it's signs? How do we know they're not relaying when a pitcher tips an offspeed pitch?

You can't decipher any of that form the videos out there.

Again, point me in the direction where you can definitively say an electronic device was being used. You can't. And even you could don't think MLB could?

We're a few days into this investigation and it's crickets form MLB yet all these internet sleuths have definitive evidence.

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lda6339 said:

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Flexbone said:

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Video backs up your claim that the Astros were recognizing pitches before they were thrown? Ok. What about the use of electronic devices? Where is the support for that, champ?

Sorry your team sucks.

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Right here!

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing

Sorry your team cheats!

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South Platte said:

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lda6339 said:

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Flexbone said:

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Video backs up your claim that the Astros were recognizing pitches before they were thrown? Ok. What about the use of electronic devices? Where is the support for that, champ?

Sorry your team sucks.

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Right here!

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing

Sorry your team cheats!

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This must be a really fun day for you. Keep them coming!!

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Wow. The people of Arlington are so desperate for this to be a bigger deal then it is.

MLB knew teams were doing this. The Astros will get a slap on the wrist and life will go on.

The Astros will still be spanking dat ass for years to come. Ya'll are almost as sad as the Dems praying for impeachment because you know your team can't beat the Astros between the chalk lines.

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Flexbone said:

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lda6339 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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lda6339 said:

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Astros fans desperately want to paint this a TEX v HOU or NYY v HOU thing, in reality its MLB v HOU. Need to wait and see what the investigation reveals but a lot of bad evidence is coming out and not much good. We'll see.

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In reality its MLB versus every team that may have been bending the rules a bit, which was likely most of the contenders.

I have no problem with anyone wanting legitimate investigation of the mlb culture that possibly lead many teams to do this.

It's the morons like Vermin that only want to focus o the Astros that are worthy of ridicule.

Again, the bottom line is any team found guilty will be slapped on the wrist and life will go on.

The Astros will still be the team to beat in the AL. The 2017 World Series will still be awesome. And Arlington will never win anything of consequnce.

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Wanna put money on it?

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Yes. I'll gladly take the other side of any bet you're on.

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Silent For Too Long said:

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lda6339 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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lda6339 said:

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Astros fans desperately want to paint this a TEX v HOU or NYY v HOU thing, in reality its MLB v HOU. Need to wait and see what the investigation reveals but a lot of bad evidence is coming out and not much good. We'll see.

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In reality its MLB versus every team that may have been bending the rules a bit, which was likely most of the contenders.

I have no problem with anyone wanting legitimate investigation of the mlb culture that possibly lead many teams to do this.

It's the morons like Vermin that only want to focus o the Astros that are worthy of ridicule.

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Your takes didn't even take 24 hours to go cold, friend. Good thing you wont put your money where your mouth is.

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So you honestly think the Astros are the only ones MLB is investigating?

You're dumber then I thought.

And, yes, if they find something from 2019 the Astros are likely in trouble. I have yet to see any credible evidence they will.

If it's just 2017, again, slap on the wrist and life goes on. Keep your hopes up, though. It'll make watching your inevitable disappointment much more enjoyable.

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South Platte said:

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lda6339 said:

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Flexbone said:

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Video backs up your claim that the Astros were recognizing pitches before they were thrown? Ok. What about the use of electronic devices? Where is the support for that, champ?

Sorry your team sucks.

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Right here!

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing

Sorry your team cheats!

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This must be a really fun day for you. Keep them coming!!

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lda6339 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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This is why Flexbone posts are so gold... Guy goes from saying "people that believe because of a few allegations the Astros might be guilty are dumbasses" to days later "people that believe that this isn't widespread are dumbasses".

In a few months after penalties are handed out it'll be "people who though the Astros wouldn't be penalized for this are dumbasses".

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Flexbone relies heavily on insults to come across like he knows what he's talking about.

Regardless- everything thats came out so far has flown in the face of the narrative the stros have wanted to push. Its gone something like this.

1) accusations come out
"We weren't cheating, this isnt proof, the banging could have been anything"
2) more proof, like, an undeniable amount of proof
"it was legal in 2017"
3) Astros had to be watched for it after 2017
"well there's no proof we were using a camera"
4) a setup exactly like the one Fiers described is his accusations is found in the World Series Video
"a simple monitor is not proof, it proves nothing, that was for replay"
5) well, no - replay is handled somewhere else in MMP.
"well maybe it was to watch at bats, besides even if we did cheat everyone was doing it" (they say with no proof)
6) commissioner says they have no reason to believe anyone else was doing it
"well thats not proof, of course he will say that to protect the league - we'll get a slap on the wrist and be the fall guy"
7) commissioner says he will bring the hammer down if anything is proven
"well we need to wait and see what the investigation says"

They move the goal posts for "proof" of each individual claim instead of realizing the totality of evidence is quite damning. Luckily the internet is forever and in three months when this wraps up, we will all be back here to laugh some more.

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Junkhead said:

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Take the 2017 championship away. They didn't earn it fair and square. Their own player admitted it.

Astros accused of high-tech sign-stealing scheme during 2017 championship season

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gambochaman said:

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full honesty though

the reason i am the most pissed about this is because i think it was completely unnecessary. The astros were talented enough that i 100% do not believe that this drum banging resulted in a significant number of loses turned to wins, plus they did not do this during the playoffs, where they won four critical road games, including the WS clincher.

this wasnt needed, yet they still did it

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Bobaloo said:

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Junkhead said:

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Take the 2017 championship away. They didn't earn it fair and square. Their own player admitted it.

Astros accused of high-tech sign-stealing scheme during 2017 championship season

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Certainly something to consider. At the end of the day, we are judged by our integrity. Surrendering their "title" would go a long way to restoring it...

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