Stive said:

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Coates said:

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Stive said:

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Coates said:

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Stive said:

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So "it's a bit different" but it boils down to: you're ok with those mean old school districts and governments mandating it as long as it's been vetted for some arbitrary length of time?

Got it.

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Arbitrary? Who mentioned that? Show where the vaccine has actually been vetted.

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Pretty sure the point went right over your head.

Let's try again: how long should the vacation have been vetted before you'd be ok with government mandating it?

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The point didn't go over my head, you asked if it's OK if it's been vetted for an arbitrary amount of time. My response was for you to show it's been vetted at all. Every vaccine has gone through years of trial & error, and has shown long term effects, specifically when being mandated to children.

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And once again, none of that matters. Are you fine with the government mandating shots as long as it's been tested long enough to make you feel safe?

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Lol, good lord dude. How have these vaccines been vetted to allow the government to mandate them? How many 5-11 year olds were in the trials?

Does the government force you to take any other vaccines?

A positive finding on the home test means virus has been detected in your body. A negative finding means virus was not detected, but does not necessarily mean that you are COVID-free.

— Clay Jenkins (@JudgeClayJ) December 7, 2021

What he's saying is - even if you've had the vax + booster - you need to do a covid test before each and every indoor holiday gathering....BUT - and this is important - even if you test negative you are still "not necessarily covid-free".

So whats the guy whose vaccinated + boosted + passed an at-home covid test to do if he TRULY wants to #flattenthecurve?

Self-test can be used as part of an overall risk reduction strategy that includes vaccination, getting your booster, masking, and physical distancing.

— Clay Jenkins (@JudgeClayJ) December 7, 2021

You guessed it - #maskingup and #socialdistancing

Coates said:

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Stive said:

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Coates said:

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Stive said:

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Coates said:

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Stive said:

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So "it's a bit different" but it boils down to: you're ok with those mean old school districts and governments mandating it as long as it's been vetted for some arbitrary length of time?

Got it.

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Arbitrary? Who mentioned that? Show where the vaccine has actually been vetted.

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Pretty sure the point went right over your head.

Let's try again: how long should the vacation have been vetted before you'd be ok with government mandating it?

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The point didn't go over my head, you asked if it's OK if it's been vetted for an arbitrary amount of time. My response was for you to show it's been vetted at all. Every vaccine has gone through years of trial & error, and has shown long term effects, specifically when being mandated to children.

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And once again, none of that matters. Are you fine with the government mandating shots as long as it's been tested long enough to make you feel safe?

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Lol, good lord dude. How have these vaccines been vetted to allow the government to mandate them? How many 5-11 year olds were in the trials?

Does the government force you to take any other vaccines?

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You're seriously asking that question?

Since there seems to be some struggles understanding the first point I was making, let's start again just for kicks.

Do you think they (whoever "they" is) did a decent job sorting through the Whooping Cough vaccine/immunization? Call it vetting, call it research, call it benchmarking, call it blind double testing, whatever you want to call it. Do you think whatever process it went through was enough?

If your answer is yes, are you ok with it being required in schools?

Stive said:

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Jack Ruby said:

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This thread has been derailed.

We need to steer it back to the conversation of why Clay Jenkins is the world's biggest ch0de.

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Jenkins is the worst.

Yes, what vaccines does the government currently force YOU to take?

Why are you deflecting to whooping cough? The discussion is about a vaccine that had 3,000 kids ages 5-11 by pfizer, and is now being forced on millions of kids. If you want to give it to your kid so be it, most logical parents and pediatricians will wait for long term studies, specially to fight a mild disease in that age group.

Coates said:

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Yes, what vaccines does the government currently force YOU to take?

Why are you deflecting to whooping cough? The discussion is about a vaccine that had 3,000 kids ages 5-11 by pfizer, and is now being forced on millions of kids. If you want to give it to your kid so be it, most logical parents and pediatricians will wait for long term studies, specially to fight a mild disease in that age group.

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Do you consider school boards governmental entities?

I'm not deflecting to whooping cough. I'm adding some reference to the previous question so that it helps you follow the logic.

So do you think they "vetted" that properly? And if yes….well….see the previous question listed above for the follow up.

TexasAggie008 said:

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A positive finding on the home test means virus has been detected in your body. A negative finding means virus was not detected, but does not necessarily mean that you are COVID-free.

— Clay Jenkins (@JudgeClayJ) December 7, 2021

What he's saying is - even if you've had the vax + booster - you need to do a covid test before each and every indoor holiday gathering....BUT - and this is important - even if you test negative you are still "not necessarily covid-free".

So whats the guy whose vaccinated + boosted + passed an at-home covid test to do if he TRULY wants to #flattenthecurve?

Self-test can be used as part of an overall risk reduction strategy that includes vaccination, getting your booster, masking, and physical distancing.

— Clay Jenkins (@JudgeClayJ) December 7, 2021

You guessed it - #maskingup and #socialdistancing

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IOW, testing is pointless.

Stive said:

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Coates said:

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Yes, what vaccines does the government currently force YOU to take?

Why are you deflecting to whooping cough? The discussion is about a vaccine that had 3,000 kids ages 5-11 by pfizer, and is now being forced on millions of kids. If you want to give it to your kid so be it, most logical parents and pediatricians will wait for long term studies, specially to fight a mild disease in that age group.

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Do you consider school boards governmental entities?

I'm not deflecting to whooping cough. I'm adding some reference to the previous question so that it helps you follow the logic.

So do you think they "vetted" that properly? And if yes….well….see the previous question listed above for the follow up.

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Are you in school? I asked what vaccine does the government force YOU to take. None other than potentially the covid vaccine.

What reference are you adding? You just said whooping cough and didn't compare the trials/studies between the two vaccines. Did the whooping cough vaccine have a trial of only 3000 kids before being stamped approved?

Geez your ability to follow a thread is severely lacking.

On the previous page Double Aught said

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Honest question: vaccines have been required for public schools for decades. How is this one (which currently isn't required) different?

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You replied back with:

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Being required in California and other school districts across the country.

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Then Bonfire chimes in with

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As previously mentioned, long term studies exist on other vaccines. Other vaccines are actually live virus culture, true "vaccines". Most of the diseases we vaxx kids for had mortality rates above 5% in kids. The Pfizer vaxx trial had exactly zero kids in the control group develop serious symptoms, much less hospitalized, much less die. States allow you to delay vaxx your kids according to a pediatrician designed schedule, and no such exemption exists for Covid vaxx, LOL.

So yeah, a little different.

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To which I responded

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So "it's a bit different" but it boils down to: you're ok with those mean old school districts and governments mandating it as long as it's been vetted for some arbitrary length of time?

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Now that we've rehashed it and read it slow to you (mentioning the key parts)…. Those comments were focused in on kids being required to take shots for school. I never said anything about myself, or you, or Bonfire, or Double Aught, or any other adult that I'm aware of.

I'll simplify it even more for you so you don't have to critically think through it (since you seem to be derailed by previous comments or thoughts). People have by and large been quite alright with school districts requiring vaccines for years. Public districts, operating under a combination of state and local control (both elected and appointed…but both governmental), have required kids to provide shot records in most, if not all states across the country. Those vaccines on the shot records were vetted, researched, studied (whatever word you want to use here) at some point in the past; some more than others. By and large, people haven't had problems with those vaccine requirements. There are religious and certain medical exemptions that are well documented but otherwise, very few exceptions are allowed.

Now…along comes Covid. I don't have a problem with anyone arguing that the approval and research for the vaccines was very fast. I'm not scientific enough to weigh in with an educated opinion on whether the vaccine has been properly structured, tested, etc. What I WAS pointing out in my initial comment (quoted above to make it easy for you) was the hypocrisy when someone starts whining about government mandating the Covid vaccine. People that have been just fine with government mandating shots for kids for years are all of a sudden griping about government not having the authority to require shots in the schools. Those people have politicized the vaccine in ways that are very comparable to the way the other groups have politicized masks, lock downs, the virus itself, etc.

So in summary: either you're ok with shots being required in schools or you're not. The only difference in this one and the previous ones is the length of time (the arbitrary number I referenced earlier) that this one has been researched compared to the other shots that the government requires.

Your quote:

"So "it's a bit different" but it boils down to: you're ok with those mean old school districts and governments mandating it as long as it's been vetted for some arbitrary length of time?"

I assumed you meant the employer mandate and were talking about adults as well.

Your assumption that we're either ok with vaccine mandates or not is simply false, pediatricians across this country and even on this board are telling parents to wait on this shot for their kids, I guess they're wrong?

I asked multiple times for you to show where this vaccine has actually been vetted. You're hung up an 'arbitrary timeline' for some reason, as I asked above how many kids were in all of the other vaccine trials? I am not an expert, but am guessing way more than 3,000 like this one for kids 5-11.

Coates said:

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Your quote:

"So "it's a bit different" but it boils down to: you're ok with those mean old school districts and governments mandating it as long as it's been vetted for some arbitrary length of time?"

I assumed you meant the employer mandate and were talking about adults as well.

Your assumption that we're either ok with vaccine mandates or not is simply false, pediatricians across this country and even on this board are telling parents to wait on this shot for their kids, I guess they're wrong?

I asked multiple times for you to show where this vaccine has actually been vetted. You're hung up an 'arbitrary timeline' for some reason, as I asked above how many kids were in all of the other vaccine trials? I am not an expert, but am guessing way more than 3,000 like this one for kids 5-11.

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States have partial oversight for school districts, and organizations like the TEA (state level) have a massive amount of say that trumps local school district authorities. That was my "and governments" comment.

The rest of your comment is where I'm still not sure you're getting the point. If someone's beef about this whole shot issue is that the government shouldn't be able to require it, then by extension they should have the equal beef about previous vaccines (whooping cough, polio, measles). Either you're for the government being able to dictate health issues in schools or you are not. Once you've decided that you are against government dictating vaccine requirements to your child, at that point it doesn't matter how long the research into the vaccine was, it doesn't matter what the pediatricians say, it doesn't matter how bad the disease is....you're simply against them making you get your kid a shot.

On the flip side, if you're fine with the government dictating vaccines (like virtually everyone in the country was prior to March of 2020), THEN it begins to fall into your argument of "I'm fine with the government telling me what to do with my kids as long as they've researched it long enough and thoroughly enough to satisfy my brain".


Double Aught (I presume) was asking the question he did to point out a MASSIVE amount of hypocrisy in the arguments of many people in this thread and in others. They jump in and b**** and whine about "the gubment can't tell me what to do with my kids...they don't have that authority!!!!", and yet most of them have willingly subjected their kids to that very authority that they're griping about regarding this very SUBJECT we're discussing: vaccines.



To clear up the rest of your post: I'm not arguing with pediatricians about this. They're entitled to their opinions and are much smarter in their field than I could ever be. Many other experts in the fields of immunology and virology, for the most part, have vastly different opinions than whatever minority percentage of pediatricians are against the vaccine though and I'm inclined to lean towards their thoughts and opinions over the peds.

Regarding the "vetting" I have no clue how much research has been done, and that was never part of my original comment anyway. I guess you could check and see how many kids have been vaccinated so far. While it won't necessarily show you the effectiveness of the vaccine, a little deeper dive would likely show that there hasn't been a massive die off of kids, there hasn't been a massive log of adverse reactions. If there were, OAN and Fox would have those stats and funeral processions front and center if for no other reason than to knock Biden's approval ratings down to single digits.

Am I allowed to have an opinion or concern about what vaccines the Government mandates for children or myself?

Where did I say pediatricians are against the vaccine? I simply said that there is a large number of them telling parents to wait, our pediatrician as well as several others on this board have stated the risk of covid for the 5-11 range is so small the potential side effects from the vaccine outweigh it's benefits.

And I never said anything about kids dying from the vaccine, you're making stuff up.

This is not a black and white issue like you are saying, we'll just need to agree to disagree and move on, have a nice life.

Coates said:

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Am I allowed to have an opinion or concern about what vaccines the Government mandates for children or myself?

Where did I say pediatricians are against the vaccine? I simply said that there is a large number of them telling parents to wait, our pediatrician as well as several others on this board have stated the risk of covid for the 5-11 range is so small the potential side effects from the vaccine outweigh it's benefits.

And I never said anything about kids dying from the vaccine, you're making stuff up.

This is not a black and white issue like you are saying, we'll just need to agree to disagree and move on, have a nice life.

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I never said you said anything about kids dying. But when someone is researching whether the vaccine is dangerous for their kid, deaths from the vaccine might be something you'd want to know right? Pediatricians wanting a person to wait could be because they think the kid should be older AND/OR it could be because they don't think it's effective at all (I tend to agree with those that think it's dumb for little kids if it's being sold as beneficial to the kid…I understand the aspect of it being a buffer for adults). Some things in a conversation are implied, other things are newly added in each time someone talks. It doesn't always have to be a line for line quote that's being addressed literally down to the word.

Once again….conversation went over your head.

Have a great night…

Edwin Flores files to run against Clay

I know zero about this guy, but I'll blindly vote for him.

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Born in Mexico City, Flores holds a Ph.D. in molecular immunology from Washington University in St. Louis, and a law degree from the University of Texas at Austin.

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752bro4 said:

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Edwin Flores files to run against Clay

I know zero about this guy, but I'll blindly vote for him.

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Born in Mexico City, Flores holds a Ph.D. in molecular immunology from Washington University in St. Louis, and a law degree from the University of Texas at Austin.

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Will remain cautious of him:

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Although known as a fiscal conservative with a keen eye for performance metrics, Flores has voted in favor of the district's most progressive efforts, including a state record $3 billion bond, a ban on discretionary suspensions and the development of the state's first racial equity office for a public school district.

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We must also renew our resolve to mask in public indoor settings outside our own home. And when you have others over to your home or go to Christmas or holiday parties and events and others' homes, wear a mask.

— Clay Jenkins (@JudgeClayJ) December 16, 2021

For sure Clay, people should get multiple shots of the thing that doesn't prevent you from getting it. Perfect logic.

My wife's clinic has 22 combined patients/therapists. They are up to 12 positive Covid cases so far this week.

Upper management won't shut the clinic down as revenue at 1/3 the rate is more important. She told me they told her it was Omicron and every adult was vaccinated. They have had several staff travel to/from other clinics as well as other staff come in and try and fill the gap.

Curious how this will turn out.

My wife informed me we are back to code defcon murder apocalypse threat level red.

riverrataggie said:

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K. See ya at the gym in the morning, work during the day, kids sports practices early evening, and restaurants at night.

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My gym required/requires masks so I quit and work out at home.

YouBet said:

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riverrataggie said:

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K. See ya at the gym in the morning, work during the day, kids sports practices early evening, and restaurants at night.

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My gym required/requires masks so I quit and work out at home.

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Go to the Y. They haven't required,'enforced', masks since summer of 2020