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It's here (COVID 19)

410,836 Views | 3356 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TexasAggie008
hatchback
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mavsfan4ever said:

Other than retail, movie theaters, etc, the Governor's Order did not specifically address if non-essential businesses and office buildings were able to open back up. So Clay Jenkins may argue that non-essential businesses must still cease all operations.
The executive order explicitly defines which are essential services and those now considered "reopened services." I'm struggling with the formatting when I copy/paste the text from the PDF, so here's a screenshot:


TexasAggie008
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What is the formal guidance on, say, having people over to one's house beginning may 1?
Rubble
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Comeby! said:

Wonder if Denton will follow suit.

Denton's expires 4/30 already...
duck79
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What's 25% capacity of your house?
Phat32
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What's the obsession with closing hair salons and barber shops? Do people cough all over their barber and/or sneeze on the comb?
hatchback
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Droplets aren't just expelled when coughing or sneezing. You expel tiny droplets when talking, too.
Trucker 96
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Require both barber and client to wear a mask. Limit number of people that can be in the waiting area and require mask. Making them remain closed is moronic.
Hood
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Bingo Bango Bongo said:

Require both barber and client to wear a mask. Limit number of people that can be in the waiting area and require mask. Making them remain closed is moronic.
Masks might interfere with the cut since the straps go behind the ear or head. A small nit, yes. And I'm first in line when they reopen.
mavsfan4ever
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hatchback said:

mavsfan4ever said:

Other than retail, movie theaters, etc, the Governor's Order did not specifically address if non-essential businesses and office buildings were able to open back up. So Clay Jenkins may argue that non-essential businesses must still cease all operations.
The executive order explicitly defines which are essential services and those now considered "reopened services." I'm struggling with the formatting when I copy/paste the text from the PDF, so here's a screenshot:





Okay, so how I read that is that if you aren't an essential business and aren't a reopened business, then your office should still be shut down (if there is a local order shutting down all non-essential businesses)?

That's certainly not how people are taking the order. I've had multiple people say that Texas is now reopened. But in Dallas county, if you don't fit under an essential business or a reopened business, then are you SOL bc clay Jenkins order shutting you down still applies?
hatchback
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Maybe? It seems to me that the state EO is still prohibiting non-essential businesses from opening regardless of what Dallas County says.
Bobcat06
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TexasAggie008 said:

F*** you
This is a very convincing argument to disprove the allegation of being an internet tough guy.
mavsfan4ever
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hatchback said:

Maybe? It seems to me that the state EO is still prohibiting non-essential businesses from opening regardless of what Dallas County says.


Yea I guess the reasoning applies to both the Dallas order and the earlier state order. People are taking this as reopening everything, but that doesn't seem to be the intention. They could have easily cleared that up with one paragraph in this new order. It's weird that they didn't.
duck79
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It almost feels like they want ppl to have the uncertainty and just open or go above the 25% rule. If everything gets bad then they can say that ppl should have listened and if it goes as hoped then they can say "let's move to phase 2 and have those still waiting open".
Trucker 96
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Abbott and team have absolutely SUCKED at providing clarity thru most of this process.
agcrock2005
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TexasAggie008 said:

What is the formal guidance on, say, having people over to one's house beginning may 1?
Not sure about "formal guidance" but County judge neighbor had a big shindig again this past weekend so you should be good to go.
Bob Knights Paper Hands
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duck79 said:

It almost feels like they want ppl to have the uncertainty and just open or go above the 25% rule. If everything gets bad then they can say that ppl should have listened and if it goes as hoped then they can say "let's move to phase 2 and have those still waiting open".

This is my thoughts as well. Lots of political risk with openly driving the open things up train. It's easier to remove some of the restrictions and let people decide their own risk tolerance. Even though it would be nice to have some leadership, the current way feels American.
hatchback
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Just heard on nbc5 news that Cinemark and Alamo Drafthouse announced that their theaters, statewide, will not open until at least July 1.
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MGS
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hatchback said:

Just heard on nbc5 news that Cinemark and Alamo Drafthouse announced that their theaters, statewide, will not open until at least July 1.
What's the point? There aren't any new movies being released.
Carlo4
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And they won't make money, either, at 25% capacity. May cost more to run it at that price than not at all.
Bob Knights Paper Hands
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****em. More meat for the meat eaters.
tysker
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hatchback said:

Just heard on nbc5 news that Cinemark and Alamo Drafthouse announced that their theaters, statewide, will not open until at least July 1.
I understand Cinemark and UA not opening until there's actually new releases out but I would kind of expect Alamo to open and run something like a soft opening or maybe a Victory members-only 80s or 90s night where they can test new seating arrangements, serving standards, menus, etc. I could see a high demand for in theater movies these next two months with schools closed and summer camps canceled.
Phat32
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The difference in the comments on this thread and the same topic on r/Dallas is shocking but not necessarily unexpected: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comments/g9814p/texas_restaurants_stores_malls_movie_theaters_can/

Lots of:
- Disdain for Republicans/whites
- "Why would I go back to work when I'm making more on unemployment?"
- 90 new cases yesterday, we are ****ed

The groupthink on there is as bad as it is here on F16 in the other direction.

mavsfan4ever
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hatchback said:

Maybe? It seems to me that the state EO is still prohibiting non-essential businesses from opening regardless of what Dallas County says.


Actually, the new order allows the old state executive order shutting down non-essential businesses to expire as of May 1st, correct? If that's the case, then if you aren't in a county that has a local order ****ting down all non-essential businesses I would think you are now free to open (unless the new order has specific restrictions on your business). But the question still remains what that means if you are in a county like Dallas county that has a local order shutting down non-essential businesses.
hatchback
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mavsfan4ever said:

Actually, the new order allows the old state executive order shutting down non-essential businesses to expire as of May 1st, correct?
No. It allows the shelter in place requirements to expire but maintains restrictions on which businesses are deemed essential. It does expand that list allowing a piece (albeit small) of Texas to reopen.

Local restrictions cannot be more strict than those at the state level. Governor Abbott's orders supersede all local orders. The way the actual language of the executive order reads to me (I'm no legal scholar, just a lowly architect) is that only the specific businesses/industries mentioned can reopen - they are now considered "essential." Sole proprietors can open their business and work (alone, as normal) in their office.

For example: if I practiced architecture as a sole proprietor I had to previously close my office, shelter in place, and work from home. I was deemed "non-essential" during the pandemic response. Now, I can open my office and follow the guidelines outlined in the states new guide for reopening Texas. However, if my architecture firm employed 10 people, I still cannot open my office because I'm not a sole proprietor.
Fitch
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Yesterday's EO includes continued social distancing and minimizing contact except as needed to access essential and reopened businesses specifically listed. So it would appear to extend the timetable.

Really could have been clarified much better.
culdeus
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Fitch said:

Yesterday's EO includes continued social distancing and minimizing contact except as needed to access essential and reopened businesses specifically listed. So it would appear to extend the timetable.

Really could have been clarified much better.
It seems like the main objective was to lay groundwork to deny unemployment to restaurant workers.

Other than that nothing substantial will change on May 1st except the state expects restaurants to operate at a loss so people can stuff their face with enchiladas while having a bad haircut.


mavsfan4ever
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Local restrictions can be more strict. They just can't conflict with the state executive order. That's a small but important distinction. The second to last paragraph of the state executive order explains that. So if the local restrictions do not conflict with what is in the new state executive order, they could be valid.

I'm still unclear as to what is in place. The previous state executive orders that limited non-essential business appear to expire as of May 1. The new executive order does spell out which businesses are essential and does defined reopened services. But the new order does not appear to specifically limit non-essential businesses like the older state executive orders did. The older state executive orders are expiring because I don't see language in the new state executive order extending them. THerefore, if they are expiring, we can't rely on their language any more.

So if non-essential businesses are supposed to remain closed, what language in non-expired state executive orders says that? That's what is confusing.


EDIT: I looked at the older and new orders, and I guess that the following language is what people are relying on to say that nothing has changed for non-essential businsses and non-reopened businesses. This language is in both the old and new orders.

"every person in Texas shall, except where necessary to provide or obtain essential services or reopened services, minimize social gatherings and minimize in-person contact with people who are not in the same household."
Fitch
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That's what I'm going off of as well. I have family that manages ~6MM square feet of commercial office space so it's an important distinction for them. Outside council is looking at it today.
Hincemm
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culdeus said:

Fitch said:

Yesterday's EO includes continued social distancing and minimizing contact except as needed to access essential and reopened businesses specifically listed. So it would appear to extend the timetable.

Really could have been clarified much better.
It seems like the main objective was to lay groundwork to deny unemployment to restaurant workers.

Other than that nothing substantial will change on May 1st except the state expects restaurants to operate at a loss so people can stuff their face with enchiladas while having a bad haircut.



i don't understand what you're trying to communicate. are you saying they should remain closed? isn't the net effect that the businesses further risk closing up for good thereby leaving all parties involved out of work?
culdeus
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Hincemm said:

culdeus said:

Fitch said:

Yesterday's EO includes continued social distancing and minimizing contact except as needed to access essential and reopened businesses specifically listed. So it would appear to extend the timetable.

Really could have been clarified much better.
It seems like the main objective was to lay groundwork to deny unemployment to restaurant workers.

Other than that nothing substantial will change on May 1st except the state expects restaurants to operate at a loss so people can stuff their face with enchiladas while having a bad haircut.



i don't understand what you're trying to communicate. are you saying they should remain closed? isn't the net effect that the businesses further risk closing up for good thereby leaving all parties involved out of work?

This is a "be careful what you wish for" situation. Not being 100% well versed in employment law it isn't clear to me what the impact would be if restaurants can be open at 25% cap, but choose not to. Would that put the claims in jeopardy?

It also could force a situation where some would rather stay home and get unemployment than work for 25% of the tips.


Ol Jock 99
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Restaurants aren't going to open fully staffed. The idea that this is a play to reduce state unemployment payments is just silly.
walton91
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I have not been able to keep up very closely the past two weeks. Does anyone know how the travel restrictions work? In-law from Chicago is thinking of flying in for Mother's Day. Heard on the news a couple days ago that the travel restrictions for Chicago and NY are remaining in place. My understanding is travelers were asked to voluntarily self quarantine for 14 days. Is there any cross check through airline ticketing or TSA? Or is this strictly voluntary on the travelers part?
Quinn
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Strictly voluntary.
TexasAggie008
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Cases from nursing homes (240 in the county as of today's reporting) and prisons (158 in the county jail - as of today) are fully included in all daily case counts, right?

If so, why?

Both are completely independent of any benefit or negative from "social distancing".....Counting all cases of people who don't effectively LIVE in "quarantine" seems like a much more fair metric to track the trajectory.

Maybe that data wouldn't be materially different, i don't know...but common since would say its how all data here and elsewhere should be being reported.
 
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