investorAg83 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Every other team was going 20 mph over the speed limit and we decided to go 30 over and got caught. The drama queens act like the Astros disgraced the game when sign stealing (and other various forms of rule-bending/breaking) has been a part of baseball forever.

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Good grief why can the apologists understand the difference. Sign stealing isn't cheating. It's part of baseball. You strategize around it.

Using technology that isn't available to the team you're playing against in an effort to give you a distinct advantage (I.e. knowing whether an off speed pitch is coming...yes, it's always been easier to hit an off speed pitch if you know it's coming, '03) is cheating. THAT'S the part of this that is cheating.

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Quote:

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I think the best analogy for the Astros scandal is paying players in college football. Everyone does it. When a team gets caught, they get punished. It's perfectly fine to make fun of a team when they get caught, but don't act like your team doesn't do it to. They are all doing it at some level.

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Flexbone said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Yes, my baseball franchise has a set of 48 year old blue balls. I will not deny or defend that. But I'm not sure if that is better or worse than my franchise finally getting sweet release from its 58 year old set of blue balls only to have the hiv test come back positive later

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Only people stupid enough - or wanting to discount another's achievement because it makes them feel
Better about their own lack of success - to believe this wasn't pervasive across the sport would express such a ridiculous sentiment.

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coconutED said:

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Quote:

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I think the best analogy for the Astros scandal is paying players in college football. Everyone does it. When a team gets caught, they get punished. It's perfectly fine to make fun of a team when they get caught, but don't act like your team doesn't do it to. They are all doing it at some level.

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And to continue the analogy, there are hardly ever any real consequences, even when caught, so the behavior will continue...to the point where everybody has to do it, otherwise they won't be competitive.

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Lt. Joe Bookman said:

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03_Aggie said:

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I don't blame you. I was disappointed at first. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this is much ado about nothing.

Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial. Maybe against a pitcher with only two pitches, but knowing what's coming and hitting what's coming are two completely different things.

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Wow.

Then why did the Astros even go through the ordeal of doing it then? If only they had known that it wouldn't make a difference!

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Flexbone said:

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investorAg83 said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Every other team was going 20 mph over the speed limit and we decided to go 30 over and got caught. The drama queens act like the Astros disgraced the game when sign stealing (and other various forms of rule-bending/breaking) has been a part of baseball forever.

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Good grief why can the apologists understand the difference. Sign stealing isn't cheating. It's part of baseball. You strategize around it.

Using technology that isn't available to the team you're playing against in an effort to give you a distinct advantage (I.e. knowing whether an off speed pitch is coming...yes, it's always been easier to hit an off speed pitch if you know it's coming, '03) is cheating. THAT'S the part of this that is cheating.

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No. It wasn't.

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Well, maybe someone should pull their head out of their board certified ass long enough to tell Hinch and Lunhow they were fired for not cheating

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Lt. Joe Bookman said:

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03_Aggie said:

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Lt. Joe Bookman said:

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03_Aggie said:

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I don't blame you. I was disappointed at first. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this is much ado about nothing.

Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial. Maybe against a pitcher with only two pitches, but knowing what's coming and hitting what's coming are two completely different things.

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Wow.

Then why did the Astros even go through the ordeal of doing it then? If only they had known that it wouldn't make a difference!

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I mean if all you have is "why'd they do it if it didn't work?" Then I'll ask, why isn't stealing signs illegal if it creates such an advantage?

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The way the Astros did... is illegal.

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DannyDuberstein said:

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coconutED said:

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Quote:

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I think the best analogy for the Astros scandal is paying players in college football. Everyone does it. When a team gets caught, they get punished. It's perfectly fine to make fun of a team when they get caught, but don't act like your team doesn't do it to. They are all doing it at some level.

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And to continue the analogy, there are hardly ever any real consequences, even when caught, so the behavior will continue...to the point where everybody has to do it, otherwise they won't be competitive.

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This poster has definitely worked himself up to the Kubler-Ross bargaining stage. They now HAD to do it just to keep up with the rest of baseball

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Yes, but shhhh. The defense on this one is that the WSJ and ESPN were wrong.

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Aggies2009 said:

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Flexbone said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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coconutED said:

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Quote:

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I think the best analogy for the Astros scandal is paying players in college football. Everyone does it. When a team gets caught, they get punished. It's perfectly fine to make fun of a team when they get caught, but don't act like your team doesn't do it to. They are all doing it at some level.

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And to continue the analogy, there are hardly ever any real consequences, even when caught, so the behavior will continue...to the point where everybody has to do it, otherwise they won't be competitive.

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This poster has definitely worked himself up to the Kubler-Ross bargaining stage. They now HAD to do it just to keep up with the rest of baseball

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Pretty sure the road stats prove they didn't have to do jack ****, genius.

Keep going. You're really showing people.

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Didn't it come out that they cheated on the road?

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Alta said:

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Lifelong Astros fan here and I agree. The more the Astros and others talk about this the more ridiculous it becomes. They cheated because they thought it gave them an advantage. That's the only reason people cheat. Now it's all excuses as to why it didn't matter, everybody else was doing it, blah, blah, blah. All those responses are just excuses but show no real remorse.

Outside of some Astros and their fans virtually everybody believes their Championship is tainted. They cheated. Maybe they would have won it all or maybe not. Nobody knows. Sucks as a fan but it is what is it. Wish the Astros and certain people could lose the loser mentality and stop trying to justify it.

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SquirrellyDan said:

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wonder what the Red Sox penalty will be. As repeat offenders they should be punished more. Will their 2018 title be stripped?

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94chem said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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03_Aggie said:

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Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial

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You might want to keep this kind of baseball genius to yourself. All sorts of guys developing secondary pitches (and trying to ID them in advance) for no reason. No one needs to worry about tipping pitches or anything anymore. They just never knew it

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Exactly. The fact that somebody could have a take like that should tell you to quit wasting your time. You might as well try to teach linear algebra to a tabby cat. Do you actually think you can prove a point or win an argument? You are arguing with someone who is either willfully ignorant or blissfully ignorant. Why?

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SquirrellyDan said:

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wonder what the Red Sox penalty will be. As repeat offenders they should be punished more. Will their 2018 title be stripped?

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03_Aggie said:

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94chem said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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03_Aggie said:

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Distinguishing between a fast ball and a breaking ball isn't that beneficial

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You might want to keep this kind of baseball genius to yourself. All sorts of guys developing secondary pitches (and trying to ID them in advance) for no reason. No one needs to worry about tipping pitches or anything anymore. They just never knew it

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Exactly. The fact that somebody could have a take like that should tell you to quit wasting your time. You might as well try to teach linear algebra to a tabby cat. Do you actually think you can prove a point or win an argument? You are arguing with someone who is either willfully ignorant or blissfully ignorant. Why?

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Another 94chem hot-take.

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Flexbone said:

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Alta said:

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Lifelong Astros fan here and I agree. The more the Astros and others talk about this the more ridiculous it becomes. They cheated because they thought it gave them an advantage. That's the only reason people cheat. Now it's all excuses as to why it didn't matter, everybody else was doing it, blah, blah, blah. All those responses are just excuses but show no real remorse.

Outside of some Astros and their fans virtually everybody believes their Championship is tainted. They cheated. Maybe they would have won it all or maybe not. Nobody knows. Sucks as a fan but it is what is it. Wish the Astros and certain people could lose the loser mentality and stop trying to justify it.

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Except people that actually have a clue. Hall of gamers, current players, etc. You're a complete moron if you think pro sports are this pure, sacred thing where everyone is following the rules. If that were true, then yes, I'd believe the Astros title was tainted. But they arent, and it isn't.

It's pretty evident who the people are on this thread that can't separate the reality of this stuff.

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Ranger #007 said:

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SquirrellyDan said:

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wonder what the Red Sox penalty will be. As repeat offenders they should be punished more. Will their 2018 title be stripped?

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I don't see MLB opening that door. I do think Cora will be lucky if a 5 year ban is all he gets. His should probably be lifetime. As a Rangers fan, if they don't get, at a minimum, the same team punishment as they Astros all hell will and should break loose.

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