And I disavow the Rangers 90s success!

I'm still not a Ranger fan, but I guess that will make Astros fans feel better about them cheating?

DallasAggie97 said:

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And I disavow the Rangers 90s success!

I'm still not a Ranger fan, but I guess that will make Astros fans feel better about them cheating?

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Your condescending tone aside, go back and read my posts. I hate what the team did and nothing will make me feel better about it. I don't agree with the "only punish the Astros for sign stealing" mantra, but that in no way replaces my anger to the organization for doing what they did. I think they were good enough to win without the trash can BS but we'll never know.

I'm all for good natured ribbing, but please do not put words in my mouth again.

DallasAggie97 said:

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And I disavow the Rangers 90s success!

I'm still not a Ranger fan, but I guess that will make Astros fans feel better about them cheating?

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And I stand corrected- I mistook you for a Ranger fan that has a similar name.

I agree that they were good enough to win, but we will never know.

I'm upset at this scandal because cheating meant altered outcomes, possibly altered careers (Darvish, Kershaw, Yankees). I'm upset at this scandal like I was upset at 90s steroid revelations. It took me a while to come back to baseball as a fan after the steroid crap.

The light punishment means that Astros organization likely thinks that it was worth it.
Eff them. And the Red Sox. And Joey Cora. And the commissioner for not really doing anything. I don't see how this discourages cheating in the future.

DallasAggie97 said:

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SquirrellyDan said:

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I'm sure you were a huge Astros fan before this came out, right? No astros fan cares about what the haters think. Arlingtonians are always going to hate on Houston, especially when they win and compete for WS while Arlington struggles to crawl out of the basement.

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So because I live in Dallas means that the facts have changed? I'm not even a Ranger fan. The Astros still cheated. No matter where I live, they are cheaters. They cheated their way to a WS title.

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What's your point? Nobody is denying they cheated. Nobody is denying they won a World Series. Nobody is denying they still have one of, if not the, best teams in baseball. I figured you were a Rangers fan, because most of the people making a big deal of this on TexAgs are Rangers fans....my mistake.

But again, what point are you trying to make?

DallasAggie97 said:

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I agree that they were good enough to win, but we will never know.

I'm upset at this scandal because cheating meant altered outcomes, possibly altered careers (Darvish, Kershaw, Yankees). I'm upset at this scandal like I was upset at 90s steroid revelations. It took me a while to come back to baseball as a fan after the steroid crap.

The light punishment means that Astros organization likely thinks that it was worth it.
Eff them. And the Red Sox. And Joey Cora. And the commissioner for not really doing anything. I don't see how this discourages cheating in the future.

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This won't make you feel any better, but I'm assuming the Astros got off "lightly" and Jim Crane cleaned house (Hinch and Luhnow) because MLB didn't want a big stink being raised about this being prevalent across baseball. Just so happens that maybe the Astros were the most obvious because of their successes, but there's no way to know how prevalent this was.

I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

ccaggie05 said:

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I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

---

The players union pretty much neutered any significant player punishment, so that was pretty much out.

I think you probably could have gone another year or two on the 1st/2nd round draft pick losses, as with the Astros current roster window you're probably looking at picks that wouldn't have been any higher than #20 or so.

If commissioner wanted to optically vacate the title without opening the can of worms of actually vacating it, all ticket profits and merch from the 2017 playoff run could have made up the fine... but I'm guessing in a situation like that the commissioner doesn't have the authority to fine based on revenue generated and can only asses a $ figure.

ccaggie05 said:

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I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

---

If I was commish:

- Their title should be vacated. Their title banner is still at Minute Maid Park. I hope that banner makes them feel ashamed every time they look at it. Definitely not given to Dodgers (I cant imagine that they'd want it given to them).

- The NBA forced an owner to sell their team. MLB should do the same. (Not equating circumstances, just that it's been done.)

- way more draft picks lost.

As far as players, I don't know. I think that the steroid players have tainted names and careers. That may be a decent punishment. I don't wish bad things for them, but they condoned cheating. Kids look up to these guys.

That WS banner seems to celebrate dishonesty. Kids might think the end justifies the means. It's like getting rich off of swindling from the poor.

I'll get off of my high horse. I really don't like dishonest people (or teams I guess). I feel cheated too. I loved baseball and felt cheated by the steroid era. I came back the last few years and now this.

If we win a natty only to find that we cheated, I'd feel like I got punched in the gut.

Gig 'em.

(I think) I'm done venting.

DallasAggie97 said:

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ccaggie05 said:

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I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

---

If I was commish:

- Their title should be vacated. Their title banner is still at Minute Maid Park. I hope that banner makes them feel ashamed every time they look at it. Definitely not given to Dodgers (I cant imagine that they'd want it given to them).

- The NBA forced an owner to sell their team. MLB should do the same. (Not equating circumstances, just that it's been done.)

- way more draft picks lost.

As far as players, I don't know. I think that the steroid players have tainted names and careers. That may be a decent punishment. I don't wish bad things for them, but they condoned cheating. Kids look up to these guys.

That WS banner seems to celebrate dishonesty. Kids might think the end justifies the means. It's like getting rich off of swindling from the poor.

I'll get off of my high horse. I really don't like dishonest people (or teams I guess). I feel cheated too. I loved baseball and felt cheated by the steroid era. I came back the last few years and now this.

If we win a natty only to find that we cheated, I'd feel like I got punched in the gut.

Gig 'em.

(I think) I'm done venting.

---

A&M has cheated before. Are you saying had we won a title since those days it should be vacated?

If put in the position, would you rather be (a) Auburn that kept a trophy in spite of the Cam Newton violations, or (b) USC that had to vacate its championship because of Reggie Bush?

If you are not a fan of either team, it doesn't matter. I think that was the point being made, and it's hard to disagree with it.

Yes!

Edited to add below:

Yes, vacated if we had won by cheating at that time.

If you're asking if we should never be allowed to win, that's seems crazy. I don't think that the Astros should never be allowed to claim a WS in the future. SMU paid a huge price. That doesn't mean that they should be ineligible from winning a title ever.

DallasAggie97 said:

---

ccaggie05 said:

---

I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

---

If I was commish:

- Their title should be vacated. Their title banner is still at Minute Maid Park. I hope that banner makes them feel ashamed every time they look at it. Definitely not given to Dodgers (I cant imagine that they'd want it given to them).

- The NBA forced an owner to sell their team. MLB should do the same. (Not equating circumstances, just that it's been done.)

- way more draft picks lost.

As far as players, I don't know. I think that the steroid players have tainted names and careers. That may be a decent punishment. I don't wish bad things for them, but they condoned cheating. Kids look up to these guys.

That WS banner seems to celebrate dishonesty. Kids might think the end justifies the means. It's like getting rich off of swindling from the poor.

I'll get off of my high horse. I really don't like dishonest people (or teams I guess). I feel cheated too. I loved baseball and felt cheated by the steroid era. I came back the last few years and now this.

If we win a natty only to find that we cheated, I'd feel like I got punched in the gut.

Gig 'em.

(I think) I'm done venting.

---

Well, we know why you aren't a commish.

DallasAggie97 said:

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Yes!

Edited to add below:

Yes, vacated if we had won by cheating at that time.

If you're asking if we should never be allowed to win, that's seems crazy. I don't think that the Astros should never be allowed to claim a WS in the future. SMU paid a huge price. That doesn't mean that they should be ineligible from winning a title ever.

---

So do we get the 2018 WS for the same reason we would have to vacate the 2017 WS?

Junkhead said:

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Take the 2017 championship away. They didn't earn it fair and square. Their own player admitted it.

Astros accused of high-tech sign-stealing scheme during 2017 championship season

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Please share the details and facts of your findings?

Yankees, Dodgers, A's, Nationals, Twins, and Indians, are really interested to see if you have info on them yet. Just to mention a few.

JRC0811 said:

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Danny Vermin said:

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This should shock no-one as the Astros are trash just like their fans. Not only was 2017 a fluke, it was only because they cheated. It should be taken off the record books.

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Cause this is the worst thing to ever happen in postseason history.

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How many games did the Astros win at home this year in the World Series?

This is no different than giving a speeding ticket to the first poster of the day... Then saying the matter is closed. The matter is not closed, Pandora's box just got blown up!

Answer me this 1 question, how many teams and players are squawking about the the Astros WS championship, that are on the Dodgers, or Yankees?

I will hang up and listen? Bueler, Bueler, anyone????

lda6339 said:

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Question for some Stros fans-

If "everyone was doing it" where are the videos of it happening on other teams? Provide proof for your claim.

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Maybe the players who played for those teams who have already spoken out... I might start there.

oldschool87 said:

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lda6339 said:

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Question for some Stros fans-

If "everyone was doing it" where are the videos of it happening on other teams? Provide proof for your claim.

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Maybe the players who played for those teams who have already spoken out... I might start there.

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Okay so there are accusations.

If its as widespread as you claim surely you can find proof. According to your claim (everyone was doing it) you can watch almost any at bat from any game in 2017 and there will be cheating going on.

So can you provide proof? If you claim is correct it should not be hard.....l

lda6339 said:

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oldschool87 said:

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lda6339 said:

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Question for some Stros fans-

If "everyone was doing it" where are the videos of it happening on other teams? Provide proof for your claim.

---

Maybe the players who played for those teams who have already spoken out... I might start there.

---

Okay so there are accusations.

If its as widespread as you claim surely you can find proof. According to your claim (everyone was doing it) you can watch almost any at bat from any game in 2017 and there will be cheating going on.

So can you provide proof? If you claim is correct it should not be hard.....l

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The investigation into the Astros uncovered a minimum of 7 other teams, just on the surface, with the suggestion that there were at least that many more. This is MLB's own report.

I don't claim to have proof. What I do know is I played for 26 years. We were stealing signs and tips when we were 12. There was a catcher who would get on his knees every time his pitcher thru anything but a fastball. We had a pitcher only put his hand in his glove when he was throwing a breaking ball.

When we stole signs in High School, I didn't want to know the sign. More than half the time the info was wrong. Hitting is reactionary, not planned. Additionally, the sign has to be read, then relayed to the batter. I get banging on a trashcan does not take to long. But there a number of pitchers who get the sign and throw, not allowing any of that to take place.

Do I like it, No. Are they guilty, yes. Are there at least half a dozen others, maybe a dozen teams all doing the same thing. Sure looks like it. Is it the advantage everyone thinks it is. No, not even close. If you look at some of the swings, either they suck or they clearly got the wrong pitch information.

No matter what its very messy. I personally think it should have been a closed door meeting and punishment.

Not world champs. Cheaters!

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/red-sox-manager-alex-cora-s-firing-houston-astros-punishment-ncna1116011?fbclid=IwAR0eCdUx1goAfGywYo73FsjtPMJ8YvtuUJ0hs4kchx3J8d_SWr2jJhNms1I

Coppell97 said:

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Articles out now saying Astros wore devices that buzzed while batting to tell them what the pitch was. Wow, if true.

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From the same source that says Yankees were doing it also. So, do we believe it?

MuckRaker96 said:

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ccaggie05 said:

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I'm just curious, for those who are angry that the Astros got off easy, what punishment would be enough for you?

-vacate the 2017 WS title? Give it to the Dodgers?
-force Crane to sell the team?

-lose more draft picks?

-suspend all the members of the 2017 team (since the report said pretty much every player was involved)?

-impose the death penalty and shut down the Astros for a year ala SMU?

---

Have Bill O'Brien coach the Astros for the next 5 years.

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i'd rather vacate the title

Coppell97 said:

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Articles out now saying Astros wore devices that buzzed while batting to tell them what the pitch was. Wow, if true.

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Articles? Or people making dumb accusations that MLB has already said there was zero evidence of?

azulAg said:

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The Astros are an embarrassment to baseball, fans of the game and the state of Texas itself. What a disgraceful display of calculated actions. Murder of the 1st degree

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So you're a fan of the Texas import in the north part of the state and not the original Texas baseball team I take it. Ranger fan comments should be dismissed by default. Too much butthurt there to be objective.

I'm not a rangers fan

azulAg said:

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I'm not a rangers fan

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Who's your team? If I'm not mistaken you're one of those San Antonio bro's who always tries to make San Antonio out to be some relevant city that matters. I'm pretty sure your were hurt when the Astros won in 2017, not bc you hated them but because of your inferiority complex with Houston. I'm glad you have a "real" reason for the hate now! Congrats!

azulAg said:

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The Astros are an embarrassment to baseball, fans of the game and the state of Texas itself. What a disgraceful display of calculated actions. Murder of the 1st degree

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Well, at least you took your time and came with a rational, level headed comment.

Ooooh kill em