And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
Astros = CHEATERS
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Last: 2 yr ago by Aggies2009
Yeah, this is catching a lot of steam. Accusations by Carson Smith. That said, he was with Boston in 2017, so not sure his direct knowledge yet. Can't wait for the internet sleuths.Aggies2009 said:
And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
But, yeah, they did it w/o electronics....
I bet there are a lot of teams hoping this goes away quietly before all of the little secrets used by teams are exposed.
That Cubs fan has to be laughing his ass off at this thread. He cast one out and landed a doozy that is now 9 pages long.
I don't twitter so I really don't know how to look at that. I said in my post if it was outside the lines it should be punished, so we agree. MLB draws the lines and decides what is inside and what is outside, I am interested in what is published by MLB. For right now, every post I see is as biased as my post, from one perspective or another, at least my post acknowledges both perspectives because either could both be true (and both could be true).lda6339 said:That's a pretty neat explanation, that only could explain the video, but it tackles none of the other evidence.agsquirrel97 said:
Next, from JomBoy's video, here is when Farquhar comes to rest, every pitch as shown in the video (I hope in order, they are timestamped). My untrained eye sees what seems to be a loading up on the back leg for fast balls and a chicken wing right arm for off speed. Both of those characteristics would be very noticable from the dugout. Every offspeed pitch shows the "Bang" in the screenshot. I am not saying that is what the dugout was keying on, I am saying that is faster than a camera relayed to a monitor. There are plenty of tells and these two are not obvious to the batter perspective but very obvious to the dugout.
1) It doesn't explain the difference in stats for the time the accusations were levied, click on this tweet and read through the whole thread, its not just Altuve
2) Without seeing the dugout view we can't know how obvious his stance before the throw really looks.
3) If it was because he was tipping pitches to the dugout, why did the former player say they were cheating, instead of just telling the young guys to make sure they don't tip any pitches?
4) Why would the team not say the tips were being pitched by the dugout?
5) Occam's Razor
Like you said, until the investigation is finished we don't know- but there's nothing wrong with saying "this looks bad" and if it comes out they were cheating they should be punished.
As far as Fiers' claim, I could not say why he would say one thing and Beltran would say another. However, I am extremely confident that in this day and age, everyone has an angle. I will not get political, but I have become very skeptical of what I hear thanks to some eye-opening incidents in recent years. I will say I have seen biases from ESPN on numerous topics, and beating up on the Astros seems to be a new favorite pastime of mainstream media. I find it complimentary to be nitpicked and my skin is thick enough to ignore them knowing they have about as much information as I do in this day and age, people can form very different opinions based on the same information.
I could also say Occam's razor, as seeing a chicken wing in real-time seems easier than electronically stealing the signs from a catcher. I think it is very easy to tell his elbow is higher on his offspeed from the outfield and that would be magnified from directly behind him in the dugout. From the outfield, I can tell he has loaded up on his back leg and from the dugout there would be an obvious weight distribution difference as he would be standing over his back leg versus more centered on both legs for an offspeed. Again, I don't know cameras weren't used, but I think it is apparent he is tipping pitches.
I do not know how the Astros stole signs, I hope there is a definitive report; however, they have been my team since 1980 and will still be my team in 2020 and beyond so it doesn't really affect me one way or another.
ps - i have sunglasses too
.Aggies2009 said:
And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
Keep them coming....this is good stuff.
then why the banging and whistling? Serious question. If he was with the Red Sox then apparently he got his intel from Cora based on the 2017 season.Quote:
And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
Why would there even be a whistleblower, so to speak?
The Astros bullpen just off the left shoulder of a pitcher, I bet there is video evidence of almost every right-handed batter "looking at the bullpen."
My guess would be the banging was fine for regular season, but post season gets much louder. More risk adding another element of electronics to relay info. Maybe they didn't think of it until they couldn't hear.Eso si, Que es said:then why the banging and whistling? Serious question. If he was with the Red Sox then apparently he got his intel from Cora based on the 2017 season.Quote:
And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
Why would there even be a whistleblower, so to speak?
The Astros bullpen just off the left shoulder of a pitcher, I bet there is video evidence of almost every right-handed batter "looking at the bullpen."
Twitter has some video evidence, I bet we have a lot more by Monday.
really only one way to get to the bottom of this, bring in the experts.ORAggieFan said:My guess would be the banging was fine for regular season, but post season gets much louder. More risk adding another element of electronics to relay info. Maybe they didn't think of it until they couldn't hear.Eso si, Que es said:then why the banging and whistling? Serious question. If he was with the Red Sox then apparently he got his intel from Cora based on the 2017 season.Quote:
And now apparently a new allegation is out that someone was watching the signs on a monitor and relaying the pitch to a bullpen catcher via earpiece. There are instances of batters looking there. This would've been a much better strategy and not as obvious as the banging/whistling.
Why would there even be a whistleblower, so to speak?
The Astros bullpen just off the left shoulder of a pitcher, I bet there is video evidence of almost every right-handed batter "looking at the bullpen."
Twitter has some video evidence, I bet we have a lot more by Monday.
If that doesn't work, then I guess your guess will have to be enough to strip the Astros of their championships and make them wear the red and black uniforms as punishment.
Uh, I'm not the one he was responding to. Secondly, if he doesn't think there's a connection between the two, which is completely ridiculous, asenine, and something absolutely nobody actually believes, he should have responded accordingly. He didn't.TheAngelFlight said:"LOL 1 WS = more relevant lol" is not using a wins-based stat to dispute who is more relevant. It is, rightly or wrongly, laughing at your use of a wins-based stat to dispute who is more relevant. Do you not know what "lol" means or something?Flexbone said:TheAngelFlight said:Where did he do this?Quote:
If wins don't make a team "relevant"...why did you respond with a wins-based stat to dispute said relevance?
It's quoted above.
I love everything about this post! Thanks for disagreeing so respectfully- Bolded parts were my favorite!agsquirrel97 said:I don't twitter so I really don't know how to look at that. I said in my post if it was outside the lines it should be punished, so we agree. MLB draws the lines and decides what is inside and what is outside, I am interested in what is published by MLB. For right now, every post I see is as biased as my post, from one perspective or another, at least my post acknowledges both perspectives because either could both be true (and both could be true).lda6339 said:That's a pretty neat explanation, that only could explain the video, but it tackles none of the other evidence.agsquirrel97 said:
Next, from JomBoy's video, here is when Farquhar comes to rest, every pitch as shown in the video (I hope in order, they are timestamped). My untrained eye sees what seems to be a loading up on the back leg for fast balls and a chicken wing right arm for off speed. Both of those characteristics would be very noticable from the dugout. Every offspeed pitch shows the "Bang" in the screenshot. I am not saying that is what the dugout was keying on, I am saying that is faster than a camera relayed to a monitor. There are plenty of tells and these two are not obvious to the batter perspective but very obvious to the dugout.
1) It doesn't explain the difference in stats for the time the accusations were levied, click on this tweet and read through the whole thread, its not just Altuve
2) Without seeing the dugout view we can't know how obvious his stance before the throw really looks.
3) If it was because he was tipping pitches to the dugout, why did the former player say they were cheating, instead of just telling the young guys to make sure they don't tip any pitches?
4) Why would the team not say the tips were being pitched by the dugout?
5) Occam's Razor
Like you said, until the investigation is finished we don't know- but there's nothing wrong with saying "this looks bad" and if it comes out they were cheating they should be punished.
As far as Fiers' claim, I could not say why he would say one thing and Beltran would say another. However, I am extremely confident that in this day and age, everyone has an angle. I will not get political, but I have become very skeptical of what I hear thanks to some eye-opening incidents in recent years. I will say I have seen biases from ESPN on numerous topics, and beating up on the Astros seems to be a new favorite pastime of mainstream media. I find it complimentary to be nitpicked and my skin is thick enough to ignore them knowing they have about as much information as I do in this day and age, people can form very different opinions based on the same information.
I could also say Occam's razor, as seeing a chicken wing in real-time seems easier than electronically stealing the signs from a catcher. I think it is very easy to tell his elbow is higher on his offspeed from the outfield and that would be magnified from directly behind him in the dugout. From the outfield, I can tell he has loaded up on his back leg and from the dugout there would be an obvious weight distribution difference as he would be standing over his back leg versus more centered on both legs for an offspeed. Again, I don't know cameras weren't used, but I think it is apparent he is tipping pitches.
I do not know how the Astros stole signs, I hope there is a definitive report; however, they have been my team since 1980 and will still be my team in 2020 and beyond so it doesn't really affect me one way or another.
ps - i have sunglasses too
It will be interesting to see the number of fights next season between the Astros and A's. Fiers is VERY fortunate that he doesn't have to bat.
I thought Occam's Razor says they were traveling back in time to tell the batters what the pitch progression will be.
Quote:
love everything about this post! Thanks for disagreeing so respectfully- Bolded parts were my favorite!
The way I see it, if the Aggies are playing TCU in a super regional, every single person here is on the same team, yelling our asses off together.
We are all avid baseball fans (discussing baseball in mid November is an illness) and we are Aggies, we just differ in the fact that some of us like good MLB teams and some of us like the Rangers.
No need to be offensive to each other, we are all essentially the same person!!!
Stros are a joke organization who couldn't win a title without legitimately cheating.
Pathetic
Pathetic
topgun23 said:
Stros are a joke organization who couldn't win a title without legitimately cheating.
Pathetic
Well it could be worse. They could be a joke organization that cheats and still can't win a title.
topgun23 said:
Stros are a joke organization who couldn't win a title without legitimately cheating.
Pathetic
So was it tanking or cheating? Because I've seen both.
Just want some clarification
I'll do you one better. We're all Aggies here. Aggies don't lie, cheat, or steal, nor do they tolerate those who do.agsquirrel97 said:Quote:
love everything about this post! Thanks for disagreeing so respectfully- Bolded parts were my favorite!
The way I see it, if the Aggies are playing TCU in a super regional, every single person here is on the same team, yelling our asses off together.
We are all avid baseball fans (discussing baseball in mid November is an illness) and we are Aggies, we just differ in the fact that some of us like good MLB teams and some of us like the Rangers.
No need to be offensive to each other, we are all essentially the same person!!!
...except when it involves Aggie football.hawk1689 said:I'll do you one better. We're all Aggies here. Aggies don't lie, cheat, or steal, nor do they tolerate those who do.agsquirrel97 said:Quote:
love everything about this post! Thanks for disagreeing so respectfully- Bolded parts were my favorite!
The way I see it, if the Aggies are playing TCU in a super regional, every single person here is on the same team, yelling our asses off together.
We are all avid baseball fans (discussing baseball in mid November is an illness) and we are Aggies, we just differ in the fact that some of us like good MLB teams and some of us like the Rangers.
No need to be offensive to each other, we are all essentially the same person!!!
All kind of cheating goes on. I met a former MLM pitcher who readily admitted he cheated. His issue was sweating so much he couldn't get a good grip on the ball. He said he played fit one team that had wide black piping to n their pants. Perfect place to place a substance to get a better grip.
Today, when I watch pitchers adjust their cap before a pitch I wonder if they are putting something on their fingers.
Today, when I watch pitchers adjust their cap before a pitch I wonder if they are putting something on their fingers.
Flexbone said:"Over the last several years." That means "during a time period spanning X" to those who have basic reading comprehension skills. Now, tell me, which of those teams have been better than the Astros OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS? The question calls for an answer in the collective. Do you need me to draw you a picture?Proposition Joe said:Flexbone said:lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
2018 World Champions - Boston Red Sox
2019 World Champions - Washington Nationals
Ahhh I see...
So the Rangers have been a better team than the Astros this decade.
You know... time period spanning X, answer in the collective and all that.
lda6339 said:Can you name a relevance based stat the astros are #1 in other than number of WS wins 3 years ago or WS losses this year? Wins dont make a team relevant, the cowboys have been average and they're still top 3 or 5 relevant pro teams.Flexbone said:Yes, "relevance" as everyone here intends it to mean, INCLUDING YOU (who posted "LOL 1 WS - more relevant lol") a performance-based measure. Now you're trying to shift gears away from that into some nebulous, undefinable meaning so that you can somehow argue something different.lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
I'm not saying the cardinals are the most relevant, but it sure as **** aint the stros my guy. You gotta get out of houston sometime and see the world. Oh and I didnt bring up the WS- the post I was replying to did, but go off king.Quote:
Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.
I live in Boston. The Astros are pretty relevant here.
Proposition Joe said:Flexbone said:"Over the last several years." That means "during a time period spanning X" to those who have basic reading comprehension skills. Now, tell me, which of those teams have been better than the Astros OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS? The question calls for an answer in the collective. Do you need me to draw you a picture?Proposition Joe said:Flexbone said:lda6339 said:I challenge you to write one post to someone you disagree without attacking them in some way.Flexbone said:lda6339 said:LOL 1 WS = more relevant lolClickClack said:Until then, everybody keep grasping at anything you can to make you feel better that the Astros won a WS and are more relevant than your team.Aggies2009 said:
Admittedly, there have been many more examples of it happening in 2017 than 2019. But it's happened in 2019. And there's this thing about trust that if you are a proven liar and cheater, people are going to think you're doing it even when you're not. Humans have evolved to feel this way.
Here's this dumbass again. Relevance is, by its very nature, dependent upon time and is relative. The Cardinals aren't more relevant in Major League Baseball just because they won World Series titles a long time ago. The Astros have been the best team in the sport for the last 3 year period. They are the most relevant team in baseball over that period.
Your insults aside, if the Astros are the most relevant team is due to national press, the Astros would only maybe top that list on the back of negative media attention alone. That being said, winningest does not mean most relevant.
And why even bring the Cardinals up? No one said anything about them. Houston fans seem to have a huge little brother syndrome with the rest of the league
I'm bringing up the Cardinals because everyone here knows you're a Cardinals fan, as you've stated repeatedly while hanging out day and night on Astros post-season game threads hoping they'd lose. Little brother syndrome? Why would the Astros have little brother syndrome when they're the best team in baseball the last several years?
2018 World Champions - Boston Red Sox
2019 World Champions - Washington Nationals
Ahhh I see...
So the Rangers have been a better team than the Astros this decade.
You know... time period spanning X, answer in the collective and all that.
Problem is, the postseason and how deep teams go is relevant to that analysis. How many World Series titles did the Rangers win?
Are you seriously arguing that the Astros have not been the best team in baseball the last 3 years? You're doing some pretty incredible mental gymnastics here to avoid that very obvious truth. By your logic, nobody views teams over any period of time other than 1 season. Yeah....ok.
I'm sorry we're better than the Rangers. All time, and now. I'm sorry that upsets you so much. If you cry laugh enough while posting your stupid responses, maybe someone will actually believe you someday?
One thing is for sure, there have been thousands of 30 something geeks on the east coast and DFW watching old Stos games trying to push a narrative to get YouTube hits the last 24 hours. Even despite the Yankees accusing whistling in game one this year after an MLB rep being in the dugout and the Astros were cleared. Perception is actually not realty no matter how hard we try to spin for that dollar.
https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-falsely-accuses-sunil-tripathi-of-boston-bombing-2013-7Nino Brown said:
One thing is for sure, there have been thousands of 30 something geeks on the east coast and DFW watching old Stos games trying to push a narrative to get YouTube hits the last 24 hours. Even despite the Yankees accusing whistling in game one this year after an MLB rep being in the dugout and the Astros were cleared. Perception is actually not realty no matter how hard we try to spin for that dollar.
This is the main thing that comes to my mind now a days when the internet mob tries to do anything... I'll wait to pass judgement until after an actual MLB investigation happens.
SoupNazi2001 said:
If this thread proves one point, it is that no matter what the cheater did or how obvious the evidence is, the cheating fans will always defend them at any cost.
If you want another proof point, checkout everyone defending Garrett.
SoupNazi2001 said:
If this thread proves one point, it is that no matter what the cheater did or how obvious the evidence is, the cheating fans will always defend them at any cost.
It also shows how much effort haters of that team will put forth to find "evidence."
aggies don't lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do.*
*unless those who do are their favorite baseball team.
*unless those who do are their favorite baseball team.
It was not illegal until 2019....Doug Ross said:the astros cheated with cameras, they got caught, it is illegal per MLB, and they should pay the priceMelvinUdall said:ORAggieFan said:MelvinUdall said:ORAggieFan said:MelvinUdall said:ORAggieFan said:
Yeah, I mean the tipping of pitches in the World Series was just good hitters hitting, right?
Jesus, the tipping of pitches was the pitchers actually tipping their pitches. So Yu tipping his pitches in game 7 of the 2017 WS was the Astros having a camera in CF of the Chavez Ravine?
Y'all are idiots.
I know this and you just proved my point. I'm not saying them picking up on the pitches was wrong of them. I'm proving if an MLB hitter knows they pitch they are at a massive advantage.
No, you moved the goalpost from stealing signs to tipping pitchers.
It is the batter knowing the pitch and nearly the same time. No matter how they get it, that is an advantage.
Again, are the Astros the only one? Or do the Astros, with above average talent, succeed because of the talent and technology?
I will hang up and listen.
Good post. Here's an asterisk for you.Flexbone said:
Problem is, the postseason and how deep teams go is relevant to that analysis. How many World Series titles did the Rangers win?
Are you seriously arguing that the Astros have not been the best team in baseball the last 3 years? You're doing some pretty incredible mental gymnastics here to avoid that very obvious truth. By your logic, nobody views teams over any period of time other than 1 season. Yeah....ok.
I'm sorry we're better than the Rangers. All time, and now. I'm sorry that upsets you so much. If you cry laugh enough while posting your stupid responses, maybe someone will actually believe you someday?
*
Really? So now we need a rule for everything?Charlie Kelley said:It was not illegal until 2019....Doug Ross said:
the astros cheated with cameras, they got caught, it is illegal per MLB, and they should pay the price
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