Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

226,354 Views | 2811 Replies | Last: 31 min ago by TRM
Scientific
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flown-the-coop said:

It's very obvious there has been a massive dump of antiwar propaganda over the weekend. MSM is begging for a major blowup somewhere in order to stoke the coals they have been coddling so far.

If times of war does not produce the tragedy amongst our ranks that can be leveraged, expect them to conjure up civilian crisis stories in order to meet the need.

Jane Fonda types will not rest until then.


You can blame the MSM for a lot of things, but the victory narrative isn't the one that was being forced by them. Personally I've unplugged from this war, because until something drastic happens, like a complete regime change by April like we were being told, or we start sending troops? I can say, it's gone past the window of 10 days or so when you told us not to worry in the WTI thread two weeks ago.

I want this war to be over, because I don't know anyone who wants it to be dragged longer than it should. That's on both sides.

Quote:

If this lasts more than about a week, then we can talk.

Iran has no ability to control the straits of George de Hermes more than the early terror threats.

This would be like the Germans having exactly one uboat and claiming no shipping anywhere in the world.

Relax, Trump has this.
Ag with kids
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Scientific said:

flown-the-coop said:

It's very obvious there has been a massive dump of antiwar propaganda over the weekend. MSM is begging for a major blowup somewhere in order to stoke the coals they have been coddling so far.

If times of war does not produce the tragedy amongst our ranks that can be leveraged, expect them to conjure up civilian crisis stories in order to meet the need.

Jane Fonda types will not rest until then.


You can blame the MSM for a lot of things, but the victory narrative isn't the one that was being forced by them. Personally I've unplugged from this war, because until something drastic happens, like a complete regime change by April like we were being told, or we start sending troops? I can say, it's gone past the window of 10 days or so when you told us not to worry in the WTI thread two weeks ago.

I want this war to be over, because I don't know anyone who wants it to be dragged longer than it should. That's on both sides.

Quote:

If this lasts more than about a week, then we can talk.

Iran has no ability to control the straits of George de Hermes more than the early terror threats.

This would be like the Germans having exactly one uboat and claiming no shipping anywhere in the world.

Relax, Trump has this.



Please give me a link to someone in the administration telling anyone that.
Scientific
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You're right. I read that on here, my bad. I own that. A month or so and that was where Iran would be by April.
Dan Scott
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Actually we do have regime change ahead of April per Trump. The leadership is different.
Ag with kids
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Dan Scott said:

Actually we do have regime change ahead of April per Trump. The leadership is different.

At the current rate, they'll be reaching down into the PFC ranks in a few weeks for their next Supreme Leader...
nai06
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5Amp said:



Western Hemisphere (primarily the US, Canada, Mexico, and Latin America) would suffer moderate but noticeable economic pain from a prolonged closure of the Strait of Hormuz, though far less severely than Asia or Europe. The region is a net energy exporter with strong domestic production, so it faces indirect effects through global oil price spikes rather than direct supply shortages.
Scale of the Disruption
The strait normally carries ~20 million barrels per day (b/d) of crude oil and petroleum products roughly 20% of global petroleum liquids consumption and ~25% of seaborne oil trade. It also handles a significant share of LNG (~19-20%).
Most (~80-84%) of this flow goes to Asia (China, India, Japan, South Korea). The US imported only ~0.5 million b/d from Persian Gulf sources in recent years about 2% of its total petroleum liquids consumption and a tiny fraction of its imports (which are dominated by Canada and Mexico).
In the ongoing 2026 crisis, traffic has dropped dramatically (to a trickle in many reports), triggering the largest supply shock in history per the IEA, with Gulf output cuts of ~10 million b/d and LNG flows down ~20%.

Winners Within the Region:
US, Canada, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia: As net or growing exporters, higher prices boost revenues, drilling activity, and export earnings. Canada is exploring ways to ramp up exports to Asia/Europe. US shale and SPR releases (US contributed 172 million barrels in the recent 400-million-barrel IEA-coordinated draw) add flexibility.
Broader Effects: Shipping/insurance costs rise; some supply chain disruptions for petrochemicals, medicines, or goods with energy inputs. Latin America varies exporters gain, importers feel more pain.
Mitigating Factors for the Americas
Domestic Production: The US is a top global producer; Western Hemisphere supply (US, Canada, Brazil, Guyana, etc.) has grown significantly, reducing vulnerability.
Strategic Reserves: IEA members (including US, Canada) have released record volumes; US SPR drawdowns provide a temporary bridge (though physical limits and shipping times apply).
Alternatives: Limited Gulf bypass pipelines (Saudi East-West, UAE to Fujairah) help somewhat (~a few million b/d max combined), but not enough for full replacement. Rerouting and increased Western Hemisphere output fill gaps over time.
Resilience: Modern economies are less oil-dependent per GDP unit than in the 1970s. Short closures cause volatility; prolonged ones (months) amplify inflation/recession risks but are unlikely to cause 1970s-style lines due to market adaptations.
In summary, expect higher fuel and goods prices, some inflationary pressure, and modest growth drag noticeable for consumers and energy-intensive industries, but not catastrophic. Oil-exporting parts of the region could even see net benefits. Asia bears the brunt (shortages, much higher welfare losses). Outcomes depend heavily on duration: weeks = manageable volatility; months+ = escalating pain until flows resume or alternatives scale.
The situation remains fluid with military efforts to reopen the strait and ongoing reserve releases. For the most current localized effects (e.g., gas prices in Houston), check EIA or local fuel reports.

Grok


Trump is not going to send in troops.


Lololol at trusting grok for anything let alone geopolitics
OPAG
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I think it would be very helpful to understand some real history, the real background of what we are really doing here.

Let's get a little deeper than the surface stuff.

Let's not forget that we have launched a an attack against the ISLAMIC. - (let me say that again because it just seems not land in the mind of many and it is the key foundation of everything that is happening here) - ISLAMIC Republic of IRAN - (Iran is just a derivative of Aryan)

Both the terms ISLAMIC and IRAN are significant. But ISLAMIC IS PRIMARY HERE. The vast majority of Americans no little to nothing about the origins or real history of Islam or it's purported prophet, Mohammed.

Here is brief sketch, the truth:

MUHAMMAD'S RELIGION:
A FALSE PROPHET EXPOSED

Muhammad started his religion claiming the angel Gabriel named him the greatest and last prophet of God. But Allah was originally the moon god among 360 idols worshipped around a meteorite in Mecca. His Quraysh tribe honored Allah and his three daughters, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. Muhammad initially required worship of these daughters, then retracted it, blaming Satan's deception (the Satanic Verses).After 12 years, he had only family followers, so he approached Jews and Christians. They rejected his pagan ideas for contradicting the Bible. Islam denies Jesus was God in the flesh, the Trinity, the Crucifixion, and the Resurrectionleaving no atonement for sin and no path to salvation. Muslims can't know if they'll enter heaven; it's Allah's whim. Even Muhammad was uncertain, begging prayers for his fate (Sahih Bukhari 5:266).Rejected by Jews, Muhammad turned hateful, attacking them and commanding followers to hate nonbelievers. The Quran, compiled over 200 years from jumbled sources, mixes Arabian fables, distorted Bible stories (like Jews turned into monkeys), and Muhammad's rantsoften benefiting him personally. "Islam" means "submit," aiming to conquer the world and force submission to Muhammad's commands. In Muslim lands, children learn to hate Christians and Jews. The Quran urges: "Kill them wherever you find them" (Sura 2:191) and "Fight the disbelievers... be harsh upon them" (Sura 9:73). Even today, Muslim leaders call for annihilating Jews and destroying Israel. Muhammad deemed women worth half a man, permitting wife-beating (Sura 4:34) and owning slaves, including black ones he called "a head of sheep" (Sahih Bukhari 9:91:368). He married 6-year-old Aisha, consummating at 9 (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64), took his adopted son's wife after "Allah" allowed it (Sura 33:37), and enslaved captives like Safiyya after killing her http://husband.As a warlord, Muhammad led 60+ raids, massacring villages (e.g., 700 Banu Qurayza men beheaded), enslaving women, and luring recruits with promises of raping "blonde" European women (Sahih Muslim 19:4345). He bribed jihadists: Die murdering for Allah, enter a pearl paradise with 72 virgins (Sura 9:111, 56:22-24). This fuels suicide bombers and explains Islam's carnal "heaven" of virgins, wine rivers, and endless sexcontrasting biblical holiness. For 1,400 years, followers of Muhammad's writings have murdered over 300 million people. Since 1979 alone, 49,000 Islamic terror attacks killed 220,000 worldwide. Jesus warned: "Beware of false prophets... you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20). Islam's fruit: bloodshed, oppression, misogyny, slavery, and fear. It contradicts the Bible, denies Jesus as Savior, and leads followers to hell. Jesus, the sinless Son of God, lived in purity, healed the sick, loved enemies, owned no slaves, and died sacrificially for sinsrising to conquer death, offering grace and eternal life (John 3:16, Romans 10:9). Muhammad's legacy ruins societies; Jesus transforms lives. Islam is a counterfeit cult from Satan, not the true God. Repent, believe in Jesusthe way, truth, and life (John 14:6)or perish in deception.
Watch: Brigitte Gabriel on Islam's History (about 5 minutes)

https://tiktok.com/t/ZT8SaASfe/

Once we understand this is not your normal geopolitical 'nation vs nation' war, the quicke we can get about developing the resolve necessary to see it through. Because they are seeking to establish their Islamic regime here>

and all over Texas and the US with these Islamic centers and cities.

We should not be ignorant or fools.

Trump knows this, shoot even MBS and Sheik Mohammad and the leaders of the GCC know this. That is why they are siding with us on this. A true Islamic movement does what it did in Iran and it will do it here. Sometimes we have to get our heads out of our own anuses and learn what is really going on here.

I could go on, Ultimately this Biblical, Revelation type stuff going on right now. "As in the days of Noah" and we have chance to get a reprieve.
FWTXAg
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OPAG said:

I think it would be very helpful to understand some real history, the real background of what we are really doing here.

Let's get a little deeper than the surface stuff.

Let's not forget that we have launched a an attack against the ISLAMIC. - (let me say that again because it just seems not land in the mind of many and it is the key foundation of everything that is happening here) - ISLAMIC Republic of IRAN - (Iran is just a derivative of Aryan)

Both the terms ISLAMIC and IRAN are significant. But ISLAMIC IS PRIMARY HERE. The vast majority of Americans no little to nothing about the origins or real history of Islam or it's purported prophet, Mohammed.

Here is brief sketch, the truth:

MUHAMMAD'S RELIGION:
A FALSE PROPHET EXPOSED

Muhammad started his religion claiming the angel Gabriel named him the greatest and last prophet of God. But Allah was originally the moon god among 360 idols worshipped around a meteorite in Mecca. His Quraysh tribe honored Allah and his three daughters, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. Muhammad initially required worship of these daughters, then retracted it, blaming Satan's deception (the Satanic Verses).After 12 years, he had only family followers, so he approached Jews and Christians. They rejected his pagan ideas for contradicting the Bible. Islam denies Jesus was God in the flesh, the Trinity, the Crucifixion, and the Resurrectionleaving no atonement for sin and no path to salvation. Muslims can't know if they'll enter heaven; it's Allah's whim. Even Muhammad was uncertain, begging prayers for his fate (Sahih Bukhari 5:266).Rejected by Jews, Muhammad turned hateful, attacking them and commanding followers to hate nonbelievers. The Quran, compiled over 200 years from jumbled sources, mixes Arabian fables, distorted Bible stories (like Jews turned into monkeys), and Muhammad's rantsoften benefiting him personally. "Islam" means "submit," aiming to conquer the world and force submission to Muhammad's commands. In Muslim lands, children learn to hate Christians and Jews. The Quran urges: "Kill them wherever you find them" (Sura 2:191) and "Fight the disbelievers... be harsh upon them" (Sura 9:73). Even today, Muslim leaders call for annihilating Jews and destroying Israel. Muhammad deemed women worth half a man, permitting wife-beating (Sura 4:34) and owning slaves, including black ones he called "a head of sheep" (Sahih Bukhari 9:91:368). He married 6-year-old Aisha, consummating at 9 (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64), took his adopted son's wife after "Allah" allowed it (Sura 33:37), and enslaved captives like Safiyya after killing her http://husband.As a warlord, Muhammad led 60+ raids, massacring villages (e.g., 700 Banu Qurayza men beheaded), enslaving women, and luring recruits with promises of raping "blonde" European women (Sahih Muslim 19:4345). He bribed jihadists: Die murdering for Allah, enter a pearl paradise with 72 virgins (Sura 9:111, 56:22-24). This fuels suicide bombers and explains Islam's carnal "heaven" of virgins, wine rivers, and endless sexcontrasting biblical holiness. For 1,400 years, followers of Muhammad's writings have murdered over 300 million people. Since 1979 alone, 49,000 Islamic terror attacks killed 220,000 worldwide. Jesus warned: "Beware of false prophets... you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20). Islam's fruit: bloodshed, oppression, misogyny, slavery, and fear. It contradicts the Bible, denies Jesus as Savior, and leads followers to hell. Jesus, the sinless Son of God, lived in purity, healed the sick, loved enemies, owned no slaves, and died sacrificially for sinsrising to conquer death, offering grace and eternal life (John 3:16, Romans 10:9). Muhammad's legacy ruins societies; Jesus transforms lives. Islam is a counterfeit cult from Satan, not the true God. Repent, believe in Jesusthe way, truth, and life (John 14:6)or perish in deception.
Watch: Brigitte Gabriel on Islam's History (about 5 minutes)

https://tiktok.com/t/ZT8SaASfe/

Once we understand this is not your normal geopolitical 'nation vs nation' war, the quicke we can get about developing the resolve necessary to see it through. Because they are seeking to establish their Islamic regime here>

and all over Texas and the US with these Islamic centers and cities.

We should not be ignorant or fools.

Trump knows this, shoot even MBS and Sheik Mohammad and the leaders of the GCC know this. That is why they are siding with us on this. A true Islamic movement does what it did in Iran and it will do it here. Sometimes we have to get our heads out of our own anuses and learn what is really going on here.

I could go on, Ultimately this Biblical, Revelation type stuff going on right now. "As in the days of Noah" and we have chance to get a reprieve.


Haha no.
OPAG
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Sadly, yes!

What a brilliantly thought out and defended response.
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ttu_85
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OPAG said:

Sadly, yes!

What a brilliantly thought out and defended response.

The history of Islam has no defense. Its pages are covered in blood. Always have always will. And this is no troll. Its a historical fact and a massive and dangerous issue of our time.
nortex97
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Europe is effed.

nortex97
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This is who democrats are.

All of them. Chuck Schumer wouldn't even admit, on MSNow on Friday, that the mullahs losing a lot of their firepower was a good thing.
flown-the-coop
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If any person standing on American soil expresses sadness over Kohmeni's one way ticket to 'paradise', they should be deported (if not US citizen).

And that guy should be removed from any office or position he holds.

BTW - Appreciate the updates. I was hearing this morning some countries have worked out direct deals (with 'Iran') for safe passage. So some movement is happening.

Other BTW - Lots of reporting as well about the Internet blackout now reaching 700 hours. Odd denominator so for us lay folks thats around 30 days or a month. This includes jamming of any Starlink devices and if found violating, quick trial and death. Both US and Israeli hacks want to get this resolved as the claim is things are much worse in Iran regarding the ongoing regime than is being reported internally and externally.
YouBet
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Divert bombers to Dearborn instead. It's clearly a wretched hive of villainy and scum.
nortex97
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Yes, thx, I saw some confirmation the COSCO (CCP) cargo ships wound up going through the Iranian toll booth after initially turning around. I think they Iranians are trying to charge a couple million bucks for each one they 'allow.' Bessent just said traffic is slowly increasing and we will take charge of the strait 'over time.'

Not sure I really love having our sailors assume responsibility for that, but I guess it's going to happen.
flown-the-coop
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General Keane was just interviewed for segment on Fox News.

Interesting comment regarding Iran plans and progress. Said plans generally targeted a 60 day time frame if an aggressive air campaign was chosen. Appears Trump chose that and he agrees. Made football analogy of us being on the 20 yard line and looking to finish, and that the final 20 will be more difficult than the first 80. I think many people understand that, but some will say we already fumbled on our own 20. I get it, it's the offseason and they don't have outlet for their lifetime of frustration. Ignore them.

He also made note that boots on the ground planning now is NOT what you would do or need for an invasion.

They usually don't start clipping these segments for a couple hours but if someone finds the video it is a good watch.

Keane would be very knowledgeable on any war plans we had here.
flown-the-coop
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The Bessent segment was also a good one. Doesn't seem like he's much of a morning person or Trump just runs him ragged.

Securing the Strait of Trump should be one of the easiest international coalition layups maybe since the start of NATO and the UN.

Freedom of navigation on the open seas is one of if not the oldest concept in "international law". By definition the Strait of Trump qualifies and the waterway is vital to global commerce.

It may start with US troops but it should be staffed and funded in perpetuity by an international coalition.
AGHouston11
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Didn't Trump just say a short while back there would be NO boots on the ground.
No Spin Ag
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flown-the-coop said:

If any person standing on American soil expresses sadness over Kohmeni's one way ticket to 'paradise', they should be deported (if not US citizen).

And that guy should be removed from any office or position he holds.

BTW - Appreciate the updates. I was hearing this morning some countries have worked out direct deals (with 'Iran') for safe passage. So some movement is happening.

Other BTW - Lots of reporting as well about the Internet blackout now reaching 700 hours. Odd denominator so for us lay folks thats around 30 days or a month. This includes jamming of any Starlink devices and if found violating, quick trial and death. Both US and Israeli hacks want to get this resolved as the claim is things are much worse in Iran regarding the ongoing regime than is being reported internally and externally.


You're too kind regarding the deporting.

To me, if that POS's death makes you sad you're living in the wrong country and we will help you find another one to live in cause your time here is done.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
flown-the-coop
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Believe it or not trying to limit the hyperbole so as to not incite others into derails and such. I prefer these alternative threads vs the main military ones as they are more interesting. Just trying to do my part.
flown-the-coop
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AGHouston11 said:

Didn't Trump just say a short while back there would be NO boots on the ground.

Did you listen to what Keane said on this?
No Spin Ag
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flown-the-coop said:

Believe it or not trying to limit the hyperbole so as to not incite others into derails and such. I prefer these alternative threads vs the main military ones as they are more interesting. Just trying to do my part.


Lol. Fair enough.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
AggieCVQ
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Are you suggesting this war is a religious conflict and that we should limit Muslim immigration to the U.S in favor of... Exclusively Christian individuals? Hindu? Judaism? Sikhism?

Is your belief that Islam is incompatible with western culture because they let their faith enter every aspect of their lives?

If so did you take issue with the ten commandments entering school?

I want to know:

What is the desired end state for you?
YouBet
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AggieCVQ said:

Are you suggesting this war is a religious conflict and that we should limit Muslim immigration to the U.S in favor of... Exclusively Christian individuals? Hindu? Judaism? Sikhism?

Is your belief that Islam is incompatible with western culture because they let their faith enter every aspect of their lives?

If so did you take issue with the ten commandments entering school?

I want to know:

What is the desired end state for you?


Hell yes we should limit Muslim immigration! And deport most of the ones that have arrived in last 10 years.
AggieCVQ
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At least you are honest, I respect that quite a bit.

But I want to figure out why you think we should deport them.

Can you give specifics? Like what aspect of their religious or cultural life bothers you most?

And do you think those issues are big enough to fight a full scale war killing thousands of individuals over?
YouBet
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AggieCVQ said:

At least you are honest, I respect that quite a bit.

But I want to figure out why you think we should deport them.

Can you give specifics? Like what aspect of their religious or cultural life bothers you most?

And do you think those issues are big enough to fight a full scale war killing thousands of individuals over?


Specifics: Islam is not compatible with western ideology. They want to oppress, enslave and/or murder the rest of us. I listen to what they tell us.
LMCane
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Iran confirmed today that IRGC Navy commander Alireza Tangsiri has died after an Israeli strike, adding to a list of senior political and military figures killed in recent weeks, including Ali Khamenei, Ali Larijani, Esmail Khatib, Mohammad Pakpour, and Basij commander Gholamreza Soleimani.

There are visible cracks between hardliners and more pragmatic factions, with the Guards taking a larger role and Mojtaba Khamenei still an untested "no proof of life" center of gravity.

The indicators I'm watching now:

Elite attrition is hitting regime continuity. This is no longer just battlefield degradation. It is loss inside the regime's command structure, intelligence apparatus, internal security network, and strategic decision-making core.

The regime is turning inward aggressively. Iranian authorities arrested 466 people on March 24 over alleged online activity tied to "national security," and state media has reported more than 1,000 such arrests over the month.

Today, Iran also executed two men accused of links to the opposition. That is classic regime behavior when leaders fear internal instability as much as external attack.

Succession remains a vulnerability, not a stabilizer. There are splits inside the ruling hierarchy were emerging after Khamenei's death, with Mojtaba Khamenei seen as the Guards' preferred candidate but still viewed as untested and divisive among moderates.

Strategic overreach is still driving escalation. Tehran rejected U.S. peace terms today as "unrealistic," parliament is reviewing a possible exit from the NPT, and the Hormuz confrontation continues.

Those choices may preserve ideological coherence, but they also raise the cost of regime survival.

Iran's regional depth is under pressure. Hezbollah is still fighting in support of Tehran, but Lebanon's government has criticized Hezbollah's entry into the war, banned its military wing, and ordered Iran's envoy out before Tehran openly defied that order.

That is not collapse of the proxy system, but it is friction inside one of Iran's most important external theaters.

Bottom line: this is not regime collapse yet. The Islamic Republic still retains coercive capacity, continues missile and drone attacks, and is relying on repression to keep the center from breaking.

The trend line is worsening: with leadership losses, succession uncertainty, mass arrests, executions, and proxy-system strain all appear at the same time, the regime begins to look less durable and more desperate.
AggieCVQ
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That is not a specific.

If you believe that they can take over the government and enforce their beliefs, that is a different matter. But I fail to see how thats fundamentally different the Christian fundamentalism.

In either case, do you believe that we should engage in a war based on a religious proxy battle?

That seems insane.

flown-the-coop
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LMCane said:

Iran confirmed today that IRGC Navy commander Alireza Tangsiri has died after an Israeli strike, adding to a list of senior political and military figures killed in recent weeks, including Ali Khamenei, Ali Larijani, Esmail Khatib, Mohammad Pakpour, and Basij commander Gholamreza Soleimani.

Let's be fair, his position became sort of redundant when we sank all (most) of the boats.

Probably an internal cost-cutting move by the Ayatollahs and their fellow (counter)parts that remain.
nortex97
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Correct, chanting 'death to America' and funding a vast array of drug/terrorist groups is something that we needed to pay attention to. I try to find/listen to 'moderate' voices when possible, fwiw, such as this UAE person who shared a fairly accurate take imho regarding the real authors of the current conflict/situation we are politically facing;

Always listen to what an enemy has to say, whether democrats or jihadists seeking a return of a 'hidden' imam in a final battle;
Old McDonald
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seems like a weekly pattern is starting to emerge

1) trump tries to keep markets calm with a Monday morning "negotiations are going great and it's almost over! but also we'll bomb Iran's infrastructure if they don't!"
2) iran says there have been no negotiations
3) the trump admin minions do the press circuit to soft launch the escalation measures trump is considering
4) trump gives iran a deadline to make a deal before escalation
5) trump extends the deadline to next week
YouBet
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AggieCVQ said:

That is not a specific.

If you believe that they can take over the government and enforce their beliefs, that is a different matter. But I fail to see how thats fundamentally different the Christian fundamentalism.

In either case, do you believe that we should engage in a war based on a religious proxy battle?

That seems insane.




Christian fundamentalism is a "both sides" myth comparatively speaking. I know of no Christian's advocating for my oppression, emplacement, and murder because the Bible doesn't advocate that like the Quran does.

And I'm not advocating a war based on a religious proxy battle. I was merely answering the question that I think Muslim immigration needs to be halted, 100%.

They flat out tell us they want to annihilate the rest of us so why in the hell do we let them in?
nortex97
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Any links to supporting such a theorized pattern of behavior?

I think the reality is that Iran's regime and their proxies are now the equivalent of persona non grata in the entirety of the middle east.


The gulf states built fabulous wealth for their people with their energy resources, but for Jimmy Carter's ayatollah pals. The Iranian people know that, and I think this is politically a coalescing moment for them to seize once we finish off the military campaign. Outside of our legacy media and euroweenie press, this seems to be a building chorus.
 
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