TCTTS said:

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aTmAg said:

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Mark Harris is an idiot.

Jobs are worth what they are worth. You can't make flipping burgers worth $100/hr no matter how "economically fragile" the employees are. If a fast food chain tried, then their prices would go up, and people would stop buying their burgers, and they'd eventually go out of business. If the employees went on strike, or government passed a $100/hr minimum wage, the ONLY survivable alternative for the employers is to automate those jobs and fire all the workers.

The question should be, "why are these employees economically fragile" now? People have done these jobs for over a century and have been able to live fine. It's because the cost of living has gone way the hell up. And who's fault is that? The government. These Hollywood employees should be pissed at the local, state, and federal government policies that push costs way the hell up. But they won't, because they are ignorant enough to support those policies. They don't know better.

Well reality doesn't give exceptions to people because they are ignorant. The laws of economics effects everybody just like the law of gravity. To me this is a case of karma being a *****.

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Starting with this post, you've been doing nothing more than spouting off extremely basic economic principles that everyone and their dog already knows, and using them to rant about the government and whatever else for the umpteenth time on this board.

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Apparently not, because you guys keep using hilariously naive economic fallacies in your arguments, such as "the fat cats just don't want to share the wealth with the writers."

Quote:

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When, in reality, if you'd actually read the guilds' positions, or read even a fraction of the articles posted and discussion had earlier in this thread, you'd know that the primary issues are systemic in nature, and that a number of the standard pay increases were nearly settled on and where the various sides were closest. In other words, this isn't just a bunch of entitled assh*les striking because they want to get paid more per hour. If it was, agreements would have been reached weeks and months ago. Rather, the guilds are striking over bedrock issues that Big Tech has completely upended, in ways the industry won't be able to sustain going forward, should the studios go unchecked.

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Hilarious. So you think these idiots are in it for the INDUSTRY. Not for themselves? That they really have everybody's interest at heart? The studios included? How naive can you be?

These morons don't know a damn thing about "what what would sustain" the industry. How do I know? Because they are 90% liberal who vote for policies that push the cost of living in California to unsustainable levels, and then STRIKE to try to force their employers to pay them above their value in response. It's like moron McDonald's burger flippers going on strike to protest their jobs being automated away. What better incentive could there be for McDonalds to press on with automating than their dumbass workers going on strike?

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You think Hollywood is insufferable now? How much more insufferable will it be when only a handful of veterans and a spatter of trust fund kids are the only ones who can afford to be writers?

You think Hollywood makes sh*t now? How much more sh*t do you think will be made when most everything is then written by AI and features only digital actors?

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Hard to imagine it being worse than what we've had for a damn long time. Maybe AI would catch on to the clue that people don't want woke horse crap or rehashes of the exact same story over and over again.

Quote:

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We had a system that worked. Extremely well. One that made the rich richer and allowed everyone else a livable wage, with infinite opportunity for not only upward mobility, but for writers to actually gain valuable experience learning the trade via traditional writers' rooms and everything that comes along with them (learning to produce, cast, edit, etc on the job). Thus novices becoming veterans, and so on and so forth, ensuring the health of the industry for decades to come.

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Ahhh. There we are again, the "livable wage". The reason wages are no longer livable is because costs in California have gone way the hell up. And THAT is because of policies that the vast majorities of these morons supported and used their platforms to promote. This is karma. And I couldn't be happier.

Quote:

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But then Big Tech came along and destroyed that, turning the writing industry, in particular, into a gig economy. And now the entire industry - even most of the traditional studios - have wised up, and realized just how catastrophic it was to chase Big Tech's nonsense.

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You realize that this makes no sense, right? Probably not. Why are the strikers striking AGAINST the studios if they AND the studios are on the same side against "evil Big Tech"?

And exactly HOW did Big Tech destroy that. You guys keep saying this without actually stating how.

Quote:

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These strikes are an attempt to correct those mistakes.

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Yeah, and the strikes against McDonalds were to teach the corporation how to properly run a fast food chain. Go ahead and keep telling yourselves that.

There have literally been hundreds if not thousands of studios over the years. If Big Tech were running the current crop into the ground and even the studios know it, then why don't any of these people go start their own new studio and run it "right"? If you were right, then they could run these big tech operations out of business with their superior content.

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That's what this is all about.

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The guild can claim whatever the hell they want. Their actions and common sense show otherwise.

MasonStorm said:

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We had a system where all risk is taken by production and we got generational
wealth for very little work.

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LOL.

You think the people who take no risk deserve the same reward as those who take all the risk?

Gee, I wonder what would happen if such a system were in place?

They think they deserve a slice because they've gotten a slice for a long time. Or at least were from traditional media, streaming has changed that.
Also, the other alternative to revenue sharing would be to pay writers more upfront before production. Which would probably make the upfront cost of production prohibitive. They shift payment to long term revenue so that products can be made with less upfront costs. If something succeeds, then everyone who contributed gets to share in the success. Paying writers more upfront would probably kill anything medium or small budget.
Paying residuals to writers is kind of like paying salesperson a low salary with a high commission.

javajaws said:

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.
I think the bigger issue (and bigger sticking point) is most likely the streaming revenue sharing. And on that, I'd like to understand why writers and actors think they deserve a slice of that money. Most employees in America do not take a cut of their employer's revenue for perpetuity (or even EVER). This seems to be a very socialist concept to me that just because you had a hand in creating something for your employer you deserve a piece of your employer's profits as well as your salary? Its like all reward and no risk for the employee while the employer takes on all the risk.

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The way I see it, the reason actors, writers, etc. get residuals is because they are getting less up front. Basically, the actors say, "I'll take less money now, so I can get paid later.". I don't really think it's right that the studio says, "Well, even though we agreed to pay you later, we're not going to pay you for this thing no one knew was going to exist when you signed a contract thirty years ago, but we're going to make a ton of money on it."

In general, I think most of the actors are whiny *****es about all of this, but I do think if the studio agree to pay them $X for everytime the show was shown, it shouldn't matter if the show is shown over the air, in a studio, or streamed. If the studios don't want to pay them that, then they should rework their business model and pay more up front.

The fact that you immediately revert to just insulting my intelligence every time tells me all I need to know. You're not interested in an actual debate, just insulting people who call you out. Good day.

aTmAg said:

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As evident that the studios would rather endure a strike than pay them over inflated salaries, says otherwise.

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One could make the same argument that actors and writers are willing to endure a strike rather than accept under valued salaries. The fact there is a strike does nothing to validate either sides argument.

aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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aTmAg said:

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Mark Harris is an idiot.

Jobs are worth what they are worth. You can't make flipping burgers worth $100/hr no matter how "economically fragile" the employees are. If a fast food chain tried, then their prices would go up, and people would stop buying their burgers, and they'd eventually go out of business. If the employees went on strike, or government passed a $100/hr minimum wage, the ONLY survivable alternative for the employers is to automate those jobs and fire all the workers.

The question should be, "why are these employees economically fragile" now? People have done these jobs for over a century and have been able to live fine. It's because the cost of living has gone way the hell up. And who's fault is that? The government. These Hollywood employees should be pissed at the local, state, and federal government policies that push costs way the hell up. But they won't, because they are ignorant enough to support those policies. They don't know better.

Well reality doesn't give exceptions to people because they are ignorant. The laws of economics effects everybody just like the law of gravity. To me this is a case of karma being a *****.

---

Starting with this post, you've been doing nothing more than spouting off extremely basic economic principles that everyone and their dog already knows, and using them to rant about the government and whatever else for the umpteenth time on this board.

---

Apparently not, because you guys keep using hilariously naive economic fallacies in your arguments, such as "the fat cats just don't want to share the wealth with the writers."

Quote:

---

When, in reality, if you'd actually read the guilds' positions, or read even a fraction of the articles posted and discussion had earlier in this thread, you'd know that the primary issues are systemic in nature, and that a number of the standard pay increases were nearly settled on and where the various sides were closest. In other words, this isn't just a bunch of entitled assh*les striking because they want to get paid more per hour. If it was, agreements would have been reached weeks and months ago. Rather, the guilds are striking over bedrock issues that Big Tech has completely upended, in ways the industry won't be able to sustain going forward, should the studios go unchecked.

---

Hilarious. So you think these idiots are in it for the INDUSTRY. Not for themselves? That they really have everybody's interest at heart? The studios included? How naive can you be?

These morons don't know a damn thing about "what what would sustain" the industry. How do I know? Because they are 90% liberal who vote for policies that push the cost of living in California to unsustainable levels, and then STRIKE to try to force their employers to pay them above their value in response. It's like moron McDonald's burger flippers going on strike to protest their jobs being automated away. What better incentive could there be for McDonalds to press on with automating than their dumbass workers going on strike?

Quote:

---

You think Hollywood is insufferable now? How much more insufferable will it be when only a handful of veterans and a spatter of trust fund kids are the only ones who can afford to be writers?

You think Hollywood makes sh*t now? How much more sh*t do you think will be made when most everything is then written by AI and features only digital actors?

---

Hard to imagine it being worse than what we've had for a damn long time. Maybe AI would catch on to the clue that people don't want woke horse crap or rehashes of the exact same story over and over again.

Quote:

---

We had a system that worked. Extremely well. One that made the rich richer and allowed everyone else a livable wage, with infinite opportunity for not only upward mobility, but for writers to actually gain valuable experience learning the trade via traditional writers' rooms and everything that comes along with them (learning to produce, cast, edit, etc on the job). Thus novices becoming veterans, and so on and so forth, ensuring the health of the industry for decades to come.

---

Ahhh. There we are again, the "livable wage". The reason wages are no longer livable is because costs in California have gone way the hell up. And THAT is because of policies that the vast majorities of these morons supported and used their platforms to promote. This is karma. And I couldn't be happier.

Quote:

---

But then Big Tech came along and destroyed that, turning the writing industry, in particular, into a gig economy. And now the entire industry - even most of the traditional studios - have wised up, and realized just how catastrophic it was to chase Big Tech's nonsense.

---

You realize that this makes no sense, right? Probably not. Why are the strikers striking AGAINST the studios if they AND the studios are on the same side against "evil Big Tech"?

And exactly HOW did Big Tech destroy that. You guys keep saying this without actually stating how.

Quote:

---

These strikes are an attempt to correct those mistakes.

---

Yeah, and the strikes against McDonalds were to teach the corporation how to properly run a fast food chain. Go ahead and keep telling yourselves that.

There have literally been hundreds if not thousands of studios over the years. If Big Tech were running the current crop into the ground and even the studios know it, then why don't any of these people go start their own new studio and run it "right"? If you were right, then they could run these big tech operations out of business with their superior content.

Quote:

---

That's what this is all about.

---

The guild can claim whatever the hell they want. Their actions and common sense show otherwise.

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Every condescending point or question you bring up has been answered ad nauseam in this thread. Every. Single. One. Multiple times, explained in detail, with all kinds of specifics and examples. So the last thing I'm going to do is appease to your already-made-up-mind, and your obsessively argumentative nature, with more answers you'll simply ignore, talk around, or outright dismiss, just so you can continue bloviating on the internet, since that's like heroin to you.

Seriously, have you ever been capable of being just a nice, pleasant person? Why are you always so combative, aggrieved, and disgruntled, in every last thread on every last subject, constantly hurling insults every which way? Like, what's the point? What do you gain from it? Or are you so far down the rabbit hole that it's just second nature now?

I never said they deserve it or that it should be automatic.

It's about negotiating, which is what they're doing.