Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (spoilers and discussion)

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fig96
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 12:26a, 1/2/17
AG
tk for tu juan said:
The last minute of this makes me laugh and is a good point



but of course the plans have to be stolen due to the OT script
So I bothered to watch this and have no idea who this girl is, but she seems to think that her opinions are how cinematic structure should work, particularly with regards to character arc. Every character should change during the film? That's both unrealistic, not how story works, and simply not feasible. You don't get massive change in individuals over the course of a few days.

A character also doesn't have to have some big fundamental change to have a character arc. That's actually much more the exception than the rule, most characters have their beliefs challenged or face some obstacle and must defeat that and stay strong in their belief. That occurred for most of the characters in the film.

She's also just plain inaccurate in most of her analysis. She saw no journey for Chirrut, while in reality he and Baze start as members of their sect not wanting to be involved in the rebellion yet choose to go on the mission. We then see his belief in the Force evolve over the film and it becomes a critical moment. She said we never saw any examples of Cassion's willingness to kill except for his first sequence while ignoring that he shoots a rebellion soldier during the riot/rebel attack in the city. She doesn't like that Jyn saved the little girl because her character didn't need to be redeemed at that point, but it makes perfect sense that Jyn would have compassion for a child on their own in a chaotic situation.

Most of the rest of her critique seems to be either ignoring that things may have occurred that we didn't see (she didn't feel like Bohdi knew Galen well enough to have felt the need to go on the mission, ignoring that some events might have built their relationship prior to him taking the transport ship) or thinking that she had better ideas for how scenes should have gone. Um, ok. You wanting something to be different doesn't mean it's not good.

So, yeah. There's your rebuttal.
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tk for tu juan
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1:15a, 1/2/17
Jedha was just hit by the Death Star, Chirrut and Baze did not have much of a choice to join the mission or not.

I mainly posted the video for the last minute (after the credits) talking about Galen's hologram. Although you could argue he did not draw out a diagram of the Death Star's weakness to avoid the possibility of the Imperials knowing about it before the hologram before reached Jedha, it still makes me laugh how much easier it would be to show the basic diagram in the hologram and reduce the need for the mission to Scarif.

When I watched the movie the second time, the only thing that bothered me was that Krennac's shuttle was the largest object on the platform at Eadu. When X-wings bomb the platform it was not touched. Unless it always has it shields up, it should have been destroyed in the strike. It is a stupid thing to bothered by, but it stuck out to me.
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fig96
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 1:19a, 1/2/17
AG
True, but Chirrut had also participated in defending Jyn before that.

The end was actually funny and a valid point (and the Good Dinosaur line and her Clone Wars movie comments were pretty funny). Her lack of understanding of character arcs and thinking her opinions of what should have happened are right are more what got me
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tk for tu juan
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1:36a, 1/2/17
BTW she works at Disney
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The Collective
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 8:28a, 1/2/17
AG
tk for tu juan said:
BTW she works at Disney


For now...
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Duncan Idaho
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8:32a, 1/2/17
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Duncan Idaho
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8:32a, 1/2/17

Plinket response to feedback about his review.

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VanZandt92
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8:35a, 1/2/17
Pompeii
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Average Joe
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 9:09a, 1/2/17
AG
tk for tu juan said:
BTW she works at Disney


World or Land?
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AliasMan02
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10:02a, 1/2/17
AG
People need to stop confusing actual opinions with opinions expressed to generate clicks. Chances are good that this chick isn't really bothered by any of her started issues with the movie, but is self promoting and making some money by being a cute girl making waves with her video.
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titan
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 12:10p, 1/2/17
S

Oh, I don't know. I give her enough credit that her remarks look like critical based. The remarks on character development, what drives identifying with, etc. All of it decent tips for a screenwriter or film, just way too nitpicky. It at least sounds like her real take. No way to tell though. But no doubt she is using a nuanced way of critique -- almost film school ambition.
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fig96
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In reply to titan • 12:32p, 1/2/17
AG
titan said:

Oh, I don't know. I give her enough credit that her remarks look like critical based. The remarks on character development, what drives identifying with, etc. All of it decent tips for a screenwriter or film, just way too nitpicky. It at least sounds like her real take. No way to tell though. But no doubt she is using a nuanced way of critique -- almost film school ambition.
Yeah, but she's not right. Read my comments above.
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titan
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In reply to fig96 • 12:57p, 1/2/17
S

Oh, I didn't say she was right. I am saying she comes across like having read some of the principles of writing screen-plays, or of mind to.
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fig96
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In reply to titan • 1:05p, 1/2/17
AG
titan said:

Oh, I didn't say she was right. I am saying she comes across like having read some of the principles of writing screen-plays, or of mind to.
It feels like she took Screenwriting 101 or read a book that talked about character arcs briefly.

We could write a long list of great characters in films who don't undergo a major change during their character journey. The idea that most of them should is...yeah.
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titan
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1:19p, 1/2/17
S

The question is, why is a Disney employee so prominently dumping water on the product?
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wesag
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In reply to fig96 • 1:24p, 1/2/17
AG
She's as qualified as anybody on here. Those aren't all her opinions, as you can find similar criticism elsewhere. It was admirable she put it all together and it flowed so well.
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fig96
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In reply to wesag • 1:42p, 1/2/17
AG
wesag said:
She's as qualified as anybody on here. Those aren't all her opinions, as you can find similar criticism elsewhere. It was admirable she put it all together and it flowed so well.
Some of her comments are somewhat valid, but she's totally incorrect on her understanding of character arcs in particular and ignores other things all together, as I mentioned above. And I guarantee you she's not as qualified to discuss story and filmmaking as some on here are.

She's a YouTuber and apparently has a following so hey, whatever works for her.
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Red Five
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2:26p, 1/2/17
AG
Just got out of seeing it. It was phenomenal, right up until the part where they made Red Five die like a *****. Ruined the movie.
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KidDoc
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In reply to Red Five • 2:37p, 1/2/17
AG
Red Five said:
Just got out of seeing it. It was phenomenal, right up until the part where they made Red Five die like a *****. Ruined the movie.
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Average Joe
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In reply to Red Five • 2:55p, 1/2/17
AG
Red Five said:
Just got out of seeing it. It was phenomenal, right up until the part where they made Red Five die like a *****. Ruined the movie.


It had to be vacant for Luke. But I agree, they could have made him die a little more heroically.

EDIT: completely missed your screen name the first time. I'm with you, worst scene ever!
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The Collective
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In reply to Red Five • 3:08p, 1/2/17
AG
Red Five said:
Just got out of seeing it. It was phenomenal, right up until the part where they made Red Five die like a *****. Ruined the movie.


Might want to have staff change you to Red Five (OT)
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Mr. White
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4:53p, 1/2/17
Saw it a second time and I loved it even more. I think I might like it better than ROTJ. The score was better this time because I knew not to compare it to Williams.
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Furlock Bones
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In reply to fig96 • 5:45p, 1/2/17
AG
it really bothers some of you that some people are pointing how mediocre this movie is.
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AgMarauder04
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 6:14p, 1/2/17
AG
Furlock Bones said:
it really bothers some of you that some people are pointing how mediocre this movie is.


She has a "holier than thou" air about her as she attempts to shame people who liked the movie while demanding we pay attention to her.

The movie was very good, by both critic and audience feedback.
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wesag
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6:25p, 1/2/17
AG
I'd like to take her to Disneyland.
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Mr. White
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6:43p, 1/2/17
There's nothing mediocre about the movie to me. It did what TFA didn't do and that's bring childlike wonder to me in a theater again.
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fig96
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 7:17p, 1/2/17
AG
Furlock Bones said:
it really bothers some of you that some people are pointing how mediocre this movie is.
Nah, she's free not to like it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

If you want to put a point by point critique out there, however, know what you're talking about. She's complaining about character arcs without actually understanding them. A few of her other points are somewhat valid or even valid, but she seems to think that how she wanted to see the story told is how it should have been told. She also just ignored a few things as I mentioned above.

She's at least put an actual critique out there, which is more than I can say for several posters on this thread who just think it's "bad" with no reason to back it up.
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wesag
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In reply to fig96 • 8:16p, 1/2/17
AG
fig96 said:
Furlock Bones said:
it really bothers some of you that some people are pointing how mediocre this movie is.
Nah, she's free not to like it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

If you want to put a point by point critique out there, however, know what you're talking about. She's complaining about character arcs without actually understanding them. A few of her other points are somewhat valid or even valid, but she seems to think that how she wanted to see the story told is how it should have been told. She also just ignored a few things as I mentioned above.

She's at least put an actual critique out there, which is more than I can say for several posters on this thread who just think it's "bad" with no reason to back it up.


She listed her critiques pretty well I thought.

I haven't decided how I like it. I saw it in 3D which was extraordinarily distracting. We were also in the upper aspect of an Imax theater and it got super hot up there.

I thought some of the characters were shallow. Jen and Cassian Andor started out a little dark and tough, but didn't seem that way after the first few scenes. The death scene just didn't affect me and I thought it should. There was something lacking. I was quite attached to many characters in the other movies, including the prequels, but not this one.

I should focus on what I liked, but I need to see it again.
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The Collective
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8:43p, 1/2/17
AG
I liked it more the second time. Stuff that annoyed me initially did not the second viewing. That is opposite of how it usually goes for me with movies.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to The Collective • 9:03p, 1/2/17
AG
CJS4715 said:
I liked it more the second time. Stuff that annoyed me initially did not the second viewing. That is opposite of how it usually goes for me with movies.

and the true sign of a great SW movie......

cuz there is a ton of annoying stuff in most SW movies....

but the good ones - SW, ESB, even TFA - it is mostly overlooked
the bad ones - ep. 1 and 2 especially - it gets worse with repeat viewings
the others - ep 3 and RotJ - it is hit or miss at times but usually tolerable



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fig96
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In reply to wesag • 11:55p, 1/2/17
AG
wesag said:
fig96 said:
Furlock Bones said:
it really bothers some of you that some people are pointing how mediocre this movie is.
Nah, she's free not to like it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

If you want to put a point by point critique out there, however, know what you're talking about. She's complaining about character arcs without actually understanding them. A few of her other points are somewhat valid or even valid, but she seems to think that how she wanted to see the story told is how it should have been told. She also just ignored a few things as I mentioned above.

She's at least put an actual critique out there, which is more than I can say for several posters on this thread who just think it's "bad" with no reason to back it up.

She listed her critiques pretty well I thought.

I haven't decided how I like it. I saw it in 3D which was extraordinarily distracting. We were also in the upper aspect of an Imax theater and it got super hot up there.

I thought some of the characters were shallow. Jen and Cassian Andor started out a little dark and tough, but didn't seem that way after the first few scenes. The death scene just didn't affect me and I thought it should. There was something lacking. I was quite attached to many characters in the other movies, including the prequels, but not this one.

I should focus on what I liked, but I need to see it again.
She did, but a lot of things she listed as "bad reasons" don't hold up to further criticism, particularly her character development nitpicks. A character does not need to change dramatically over the course of a film to have an arc, plain and simple.

A few of her comments are valid, like questions about the technology for getting/transmitting the plans, but that's scifi in general for you. You can overanalyze pretty much any scifi film to death, but if the film is entertaining enough you accept those things and roll with the story.

I felt like most of her other "reasons" were her personal preferences as to how scenes should have gone or some laziness on events that would have occurred outside the scope of the film. She's welcome to have those opinions just like anyone else, but they're simply opinions and not really valid critical points unless a character is genuinely going against their type or a story event genuinely doesn't make any sense in the sequence of events. "This could have been cooler" is a personal opinion and needs to be considered in the context of the greater story being told, changing one scene can result in a whole lot of other changes that may not work in the scope of the story.

I agree that the shift in some of the characters was a bit rapid and could have been better edited in places, but we're also dealing with a compressed time period. I didn't feel as personally attached to these character as I did to the characters in Ep VII either, but I felt a sense of peace along with Cassian and Jyn as they accepted their fate and kickstarted the Rebellion.

As a whole it certainly wasn't a perfect film, but it was a pretty good one. I'm curious if I'll like it more or less in subsequent viewings.
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wangus12
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In reply to titan • 7:43a, 1/3/17
AG
titan said:

Yes. No big deal. But the Rogue One ending mirrored that movie's very closely - enough to wonder if someone in production saw it. It doesn't really matter, its more than two years ago now. Its actually a decent sword-and-sandals flick, and they do the types of eruptions Vesuvius engaged in accurately, including that final surge cloud.

I like Pompeii as well.

There quite a few films that kill people via the final fire/tidal wave.
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Yoda
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9:29a, 1/3/17
AG
Saw it for the second time last night. Observations:
  • Score stood out more this time. Still nothing overly memorable, but it did not disappear the way it seemed on first viewing.
  • Jedha is intriguing. If this was their "Vatican City", what was the temple on Coruscant? What about the ancient temple where Rey finds Luke? I can see the temple on Coruscant just being another temple, think big church in NY city where all the action is, but it does seem like there would be a story as to why the birthplace of the Jedi order would be the island and not Jedha.
  • How did the Alliance know to attack Eadu? Was it because Cassian had transmitted the location from the ship after they escape Jedha? I believe so, but that makes his line about not being able to transmit a message to the Alliance about bringing back Galen to share what he knew because they were in the middle of Empirial space more dubious. Why can he transmit one message but not the other? If he was having doubts about his secret order to assassinate him, seems sharing more information with his superiors would have made sense. I guess I can reason why he would have played it close to the vest, just seems like a poor argument for others on the ship given he just sent a secret message about Eadu, but now he can't send another?
  • Vader final scene. So much fun.
  • Wife saw for first time. Tarkin? I had to tell her afterwards that it was not a real actor. After I told her, she said, "That explains how he had such a unique face.". Had to convince her that is how Peter Cushing always looked.
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SpreadsheetAg
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9:31a, 1/3/17
AG
Something I noticed was that the scene where Cassian was firing back at Krennic - the way it was shot and the body position that Cassian was in reminded of Luke Skywalker on Cloud City when he sees Leia being dragged away by the Imperials...

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VanZandt92
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In reply to Yoda • 10:08a, 1/3/17
Yoda said:
Saw it for the second time last night. Observations:
  • Score stood out more this time. Still nothing overly memorable, but it did not disappear the way it seemed on first viewing.
  • Jedha is intriguing. If this was their "Vatican City", what was the temple on Coruscant? What about the ancient temple where Rey finds Luke? I can see the temple on Coruscant just being another temple, think big church in NY city where all the action is, but it does seem like there would be a story as to why the birthplace of the Jedi order would be the island and not Jedha.
  • How did the Alliance know to attack Eadu? Was it because Cassian had transmitted the location from the ship after they escape Jedha? I believe so, but that makes his line about not being able to transmit a message to the Alliance about bringing back Galen to share what he knew because they were in the middle of Empirial space more dubious. Why can he transmit one message but not the other? If he was having doubts about his secret order to assassinate him, seems sharing more information with his superiors would have made sense. I guess I can reason why he would have played it close to the vest, just seems like a poor argument for others on the ship given he just sent a secret message about Eadu, but now he can't send another?
  • Vader final scene. So much fun.
  • Wife saw for first time. Tarkin? I had to tell her afterwards that it was not a real actor. After I told her, she said, "That explains how he had such a unique face.". Had to convince her that is how Peter Cushing always looked.
Trying to analyze Star Wars in this fashion hurts my head. I just don't think it was meant for this.
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