Still kind of shocked at how much more ambitious this was than TFA. Everything about Rogue One, from the plot to especially the effects, was on such a grander scale, when you think it would have been the opposite. There was nothing even remotely cool or as clever in the final TFA space battle, and somehow the stakes felt lower there than they did here. Honestly, the more I think about Rogue One, the better it gets.
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (spoilers and discussion)
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Last: 4 yr ago by Fat Bib Fortuna
counter point: Rogue One had to push the limits, since it wasn't a saga film relying somewhat on established characters. I don't know that the stakes felt any higher, at least not to someone (me) that has knowledge of it being a successful mission. Also, the space battle in TFA was, imo, secondary to the Rey/Kylo confrontation. Also, Vader really tips the scale in R1's favor for sheer level of awesome.
That's a good point, re: the stakes/scale needing to be raised since it was the first non-saga movie. I'll give you that. Still, it's just even more obvious now that Abrams doesn't know how to do "big." I feel like if Abrams and Edwards could co-direct a movie, it'd be absolutely perfect. Edwards could ensure the beautiful, epic scale while Abrams could handle the cast/characters, which is his obvious strength.
TC, in the end what do you think the balance was between Edwards and Gilroy's influence in the final version?
I still wonder how much effort was put into "returning to the feel of the original saga," which handcuffed Abrams a little?
It did feel more grandiose with the large fleets fights and the troop fodder on the ground. Though part of the reason is there was a much larger supporting cast than just the new trio and Han/Chewy.
They had to pull off "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
That, alone, means it had to be big.
That, alone, means it had to be big.
TFA's job was to introduce new interesting characters (check), and be fun so that we weren't worried we were getting the prequels again (check), and then let the later films worry about taking the franchise to new places story wise
R1 actually had to justify its existence on its own artistic merits, so much higher stakes
R1 actually had to justify its existence on its own artistic merits, so much higher stakes
redline248 said:
They had to pull off "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
That, alone, means it had to be big.
There's no pretext for TFA, the resistance could easily have a grand fleet too. One of the critisisms for TFA is there was not a real space battle. Much of the dogfights were right over starkiller's base and Maz's.
Great question, and I kept trying to figure that out as I was watching. Honestly, though, I don't know, which is a good thing, I guess. Based solely on what was in the trailers that wasn't in the final product...
- There was obviously a sizable change to Saw's role/influence, and it showed.
-Bodhi's role was reportedly beefed way up, which I thought was a great decision and well-handled.
- Jyn and Cassian made it back down to the beach at one point, AFTER stealing the plans, to join the battle. I have to say, though, I liked how they "ended" their story atop the structure (save for resting on the beach at the end). Felt like more of a literal climax.
I honestly don't know if it's a Gilroy vs Edwards thing, idea-wise. I think everyone, including Edwards, likely admiteded that the movie had flaws, and Gilroy simply did what he could to address them rather than truly add his own influence/spin, if that makes sense. And for the most part, from what we can tell, I'm all for whatever decisions he/they made. With Saw, specifically, there likely just wasn't anything that could be done, given whatever restrictions they were working with. Everything else, though, looked to be a step up.
- There was obviously a sizable change to Saw's role/influence, and it showed.
-Bodhi's role was reportedly beefed way up, which I thought was a great decision and well-handled.
- Jyn and Cassian made it back down to the beach at one point, AFTER stealing the plans, to join the battle. I have to say, though, I liked how they "ended" their story atop the structure (save for resting on the beach at the end). Felt like more of a literal climax.
I honestly don't know if it's a Gilroy vs Edwards thing, idea-wise. I think everyone, including Edwards, likely admiteded that the movie had flaws, and Gilroy simply did what he could to address them rather than truly add his own influence/spin, if that makes sense. And for the most part, from what we can tell, I'm all for whatever decisions he/they made. With Saw, specifically, there likely just wasn't anything that could be done, given whatever restrictions they were working with. Everything else, though, looked to be a step up.
hunter2012 said:redline248 said:
They had to pull off "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
That, alone, means it had to be big.
There's no pretext for TFA, the resistance could easily have a grand fleet too. One of the critisisms for TFA is there was not a real space battle. Much of the dogfights were right over starkiller's base and Maz's.
I see what you're saying, but the decision was made to have the Republic fleet be destroyed, or decimated to the point that the resistance was on its own. The resistance didn't have the full backing of the Republic, so I can understand why their fleet was small. Star Wars films don't require large scale space battles to be good.
I agree with you completely about Jyn/Cassian on the beach. Completing their mission on the tower was the right move, and then I thought their deaths on the beach was a perfect scene. There was one moment right when they got back on the elevator where they looked at each other and it was like "wait, are they going to have them kiss now?" but thankfully they didn't go that route, and just had them accept and share their final moments together.
In 100% agreement. Empire is the best of the bunch, with hardly any space battles to speak of. I just feel like TFA was in desperate need of a more epic/grand feel for whatever reason.
Between this and Deep Imapact I now have a legit, irrational fear of having to accept death on a beach in the face of a giant tsunami-explosion.
Well you certainly live in the right place for it
redline248 said:hunter2012 said:redline248 said:
They had to pull off "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
That, alone, means it had to be big.
There's no pretext for TFA, the resistance could easily have a grand fleet too. One of the critisisms for TFA is there was not a real space battle. Much of the dogfights were right over starkiller's base and Maz's.
I see what you're saying, but the decision was made to have the Republic fleet be destroyed, or decimated to the point that the resistance was on its own. The resistance didn't have the full backing of the Republic, so I can understand why their fleet was small. Star Wars films don't require large scale space battles to be good.
True V didn't have a grand dogfight, though If that's the case then don't have a climactic dogfight in the first place. It's Star Wars the ultimate Space Opera, if your going to make a fight between armies or fleets make it grand.
ANH situation is a plot device, they were truly desperate and were throwing a meager strike force against the freaking Death Star. TFA's strike force is because they wanted to clone ANH.
Side topic: where did the Alliance send all their capital ships after they successfully stole the plans? None were involved at Yavin.
I figure a predetermined rendezvous point. They were not needed at the end of ANH.
They also could be hidden between Yavin and Yavin4.
They also could be hidden between Yavin and Yavin4.
redline248 said:
Side topic: where did the Alliance send all their capital ships after they successfully stole the plans? None were involved at Yavin.
Did you see the end of Rogue 1? Vader intercepted and annihilated the fleet, only the fighters were nimble enough to extract.
Forgot to ask this earlier... in the final act, after the Rebel council decided NOT to try and steal the plans - and then Jyn, Cassian & co decided to go anyway... what was it that caused the Rebels to finally send the squadron in and join the effort? Two of the council people said something to each other about so-and-so going, and that's when they gave the order. But I totally missed who they were talking about or why they finally decided to join.
Some of them definitely wanted to fight, so when the intercepted message came across that said "Rebels on Scarif," the ones who wanted to go basically started to go, including Admiral Raddus (the Mon Cal), which is who they referred to "going to his ship." Thus, the rest of the Rebels basically went along. 3PO and R2 must have gotten to their ship pretty much straight away after their appearance in order for the Tantive IV to be in position
Gotcha, thanks.
I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, but I got bored with this one. Krenneck (spelling) was weak as a villain. Forest Whittaker and Danny Yen played throwaway parts, and even the main character Jen was pretty forgettable.
Music was the weakest part of the movie.
Did like the space battles. Liked the droid humor. Loved Vader whipping some ass. Loved the tie in to right before episode IV.
Music was the weakest part of the movie.
Did like the space battles. Liked the droid humor. Loved Vader whipping some ass. Loved the tie in to right before episode IV.
hunter2012 said:redline248 said:
Side topic: where did the Alliance send all their capital ships after they successfully stole the plans? None were involved at Yavin.
Did you see the end of Rogue 1? Vader intercepted and annihilated the fleet, only the fighters were nimble enough to extract.
Several ships jumped out before Vader showed up. We also don't know if that was the entire rebel fleet involved in the battle.
"Huge Star Wars nerd." Two character names and two actor names misspelled.Cromagnum said:
I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, but I got bored with this one. Krenneck (spelling) was weak as a villain. Forest Whittaker and Danny Yen played throwaway parts, and even the main character Jen was pretty forgettable.
Music was the weakest part of the movie.
Did like the space battles. Liked the droid humor. Loved Vader whipping some ass. Loved the tie in to right before episode IV.
The Force Awakens had two hours to tell one-third of a story. Rogue One had same two hours to tell an entire story from start to finish. Both did that very well.
Ag Since 83 said:
Some of them definitely wanted to fight, so when the intercepted message came across that said "Rebels on Scarif," the ones who wanted to go basically started to go, including Admiral Raddus (the Mon Cal), which is who they referred to "going to his ship." Thus, the rest of the Rebels basically went along. 3PO and R2 must have gotten to their ship pretty much straight away after their appearance in order for the Tantive IV to be in position
This often happens in warfare, a small engagement or skirmish ends up drawing both armies into a pitched battle.
I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:
Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.
Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.
One thing I really liked in Rogue One was how the ships didn't just explode into a bazillion pieces, but rather they broke apart. Watching the two Star Destroyers collide and eventually hit the gate was really something else. Same thing when Vader's ship arrived and that light cruiser didn't just explode, it pretty much crumpled like a beer can.redline248 said:
I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:
Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.
redline248 said:
Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.
I am behind on Rebels, but it reminded me of a shot in the season 3 trailer. Very cool.
Just got back from the movie and I haven't read this whole thread, but I'd call it a good movie with a great climax, but I was still hoping for more after all the buzz it got.
My main complaints are with its weak characters and messy narrative. I'm not even sure I got all the characters names, and almost all of them warrant the same complaints of the prequel trilogy in that you can't really describe most of them beyond appearance. They were very shallow.
Narrative-wise, I was not very clear on why everyone jumped from planet to planet (why did the villain visit Vader?), some of the action scenes weren't clear, and there were other issues like why the dad would sneak out a message saying the reactors could be overloaded to destroy the station yet then not mention how to go about overloading them.
On the pro side, the final fight on and above the last planet was awesome, as was seeing Vader kick some ass boarding the rebel vessel. The throwbacks to the original trilogy were also well done, such as the appearance of Tarkin (awesome), Leia and many minor characters from the rebellion.
Really, it reminded me a lot of the director's Godzilla movie. Visually fantastic, but with many flaws elsewhere.
My main complaints are with its weak characters and messy narrative. I'm not even sure I got all the characters names, and almost all of them warrant the same complaints of the prequel trilogy in that you can't really describe most of them beyond appearance. They were very shallow.
Narrative-wise, I was not very clear on why everyone jumped from planet to planet (why did the villain visit Vader?), some of the action scenes weren't clear, and there were other issues like why the dad would sneak out a message saying the reactors could be overloaded to destroy the station yet then not mention how to go about overloading them.
On the pro side, the final fight on and above the last planet was awesome, as was seeing Vader kick some ass boarding the rebel vessel. The throwbacks to the original trilogy were also well done, such as the appearance of Tarkin (awesome), Leia and many minor characters from the rebellion.
Really, it reminded me a lot of the director's Godzilla movie. Visually fantastic, but with many flaws elsewhere.
Am I the only one that thought Vader's lackey who announced Krennic could be Snoke? I felt like the camera settled on him for a really long time for it just to be a servant.
TCTTS said:
That's a good point, re: the stakes/scale needing to be raised since it was the first non-saga movie. I'll give you that. Still, it's just even more obvious now that Abrams doesn't know how to do "big." I feel like if Abrams and Edwards could co-direct a movie, it'd be absolutely perfect. Edwards could ensure the beautiful, epic scale while Abrams could handle the cast/characters, which is his obvious strength.
I like it!
I couldn't help but think of Jeremy Irons from his "stellar performance" in D&D for a few scenes with Krennic
Hoe Lee Chit!!!! That was incredible. I don'the even know where to begin?!?!? Did anyone else spy the Ghost (SW Rebels) during the first pan on Yavin 4? I think that was it at the upper left corner of the shot.
Awesome cgi, awesome ending, awesome ship battle scene!
Awesome cgi, awesome ending, awesome ship battle scene!
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