Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (spoilers and discussion)

221,782 Views | 1640 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Fat Bib Fortuna
bangobango
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Strongly agree with this:

Quote:

So Donnie Yen's sacrifice, right? Well, first off let's establish that ****ing switch way earlier and why it's so damn important (I don't even remember what it did). Let's show a clearer example of soldiers dying to get through the barrage of fire (one guy dies, but it's not as visually clear as it should be to this objective), all as a direct setup to how specifically dangerous and impossible it is to get through the gunfire. So it all comes down to a last chance with Donnie Yen. But let's better tie it together with the character. This is all about his journey of getting in touch with the force, right? Remember the earlier bit of him trying to use the force when they are in jail? Well, imagine the same scene as he's walking along, chanting, hoping to make it all the way to his destination and BAM - he's hit by a blast! OH NO! Donnie falls immediately to his knees. He's so far from the lever in the distance. But before we can even think - he reaches out with a desperate hand and quickly force pulls the lever down... Are you seriously telling me that moment wouldn't have brought down the house? And a smile would splash across his face as he's truly become one with the force in the most complete and meaningful way possible, one that even takes place a second after a dramatic reversal where the audience thought they lost him... To be clear, this isn't some random thinking I thought of, this is what the movie was setting up!

Best of all, you can take that and then turn it into something more meaningful for Gun Guy. In the film as is, he sees Donnie get shot and runs out to his dying friend. They share a moment. No one shoots. And then he takes the mantra of the force and continues shooting people (just like he always does) to no greater momentary objective. He dies talking about the force as a grenade dropped by the enemy kills him, in some sort of poetic last stand. I get it. It's a clear statement about the nature of war... But what if there's something more purposeful to the story? What if, now that Donnie Yen has died, he must instead go on and do some later objective that was actually Donnie's assignment (and dependent on his agility), wouldn't his growth be more about the clarity of the force versus his own gun? Hell, after he pulls something off, you could even do the same exact last stand death beat and reach that dramatic purpose as he's helping save others. Look, I'm not saying a movie HAS to to do these things, but I'm saying these kinds of integrations make character moments feel so much bigger, just by having clearer stakes and dramatic reversals.

Thought Gun Guy's death was the biggest "meh" of them all and I honestly still do not know what they were going for in that scene.

The entire third act I expected Vadar to swoop in and wreck shop. I spent most of the movie expecting him to take out gun guy and blind guy in an epic battle. I disagree with this guy in that I loved the scene with Vader at the end, but I do agree with him in that I feel like they under-utilized his character in this movie.

I can only believe they did that because they were trying to see how a movie with only a brief appearance from one of the icons would do, so I don't hold it against them, but more Vader as an absolute beat would have been very enjoyable.
rhutton125
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I think the article raises some good points - I considered the third act to be the best by far, but he's definitely right about the suddenness of a lot of the crucial pieces, like the master control switch. Gun Guy's touching moment didn't matter because he died 20 seconds later. Etc.

I don't necessarily agree with all of it but it does highlight some things that were fine but could have been better.
The Collective
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Quote:

But before we can even think - he reaches out with a desperate hand and quickly force pulls the lever down... Are you seriously telling me that moment wouldn't have brought down the house? And a smile would splash across his face as he's truly become one with the force in the most complete and meaningful way possible, one that even takes place a second after a dramatic reversal where the audience thought they lost him... To be clear, this isn't some random thinking I thought of, this is what the movie was setting up!


See, I read this, and I feel like he missed the entire point of Donnie Yen's character and the tone of the film. There is no special, super power that is coming to help these people... they are just regular, flawed people in the most desperate of situations
bangobango
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CJS4715 said:

Quote:

But before we can even think - he reaches out with a desperate hand and quickly force pulls the lever down... Are you seriously telling me that moment wouldn't have brought down the house? And a smile would splash across his face as he's truly become one with the force in the most complete and meaningful way possible, one that even takes place a second after a dramatic reversal where the audience thought they lost him... To be clear, this isn't some random thinking I thought of, this is what the movie was setting up!


See, I read this, and I feel like he missed the entire point of Donnie Yen's character and the tone of the film. There is no special, super power that is coming to help these people... they are just regular, flawed people in the most desperate of situations
Uh, guy was blind and he beat like six storm troopers on his own earlier in the film.
The Collective
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I am probably too deep into the lore, but there is a difference between force sensitivity and a force user. Doing what is suggested by hulk is crossing a pretty clear line. His character's ability to battle seems somewhat acceptable when you consider the fact that he's probably been doing that for much of his life. Also, I kind of think they allowed stormtroopers to still be essentially jobbers based on what I saw in that Jedha scenes.

To each his own, I just think that type of change would cheapen the story of the entire crew, not just Yen's character.
rhutton125
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I think Yen's march was good enough, but his buddy presumably coming to terms with faith and dying 12 seconds later was abrupt by any means.
The Collective
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rhutton125 said:

I think Yen's march was good enough, but his buddy presumably coming to terms with faith and dying 12 seconds later was abrupt by any means.


Agree. The droid's demise was the most meaningful to me. I don't know if that says more about the movie or me though.
boboguitar
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Will any of the rogue one characters make it to guardians of the galaxy volume 2 or will they not show up because most are dead?
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

aTmAg said:

I asked my (HS and college aged) kids what they thought of Tarkin and Leah and they had no idea what I meant. I then told them that they were CGI and they had no idea. They thought they found actors who looked similar and used makeup or something.

I think that if they re-rendered Tarkin for a scene and inserted it into ANH then nobody would know the difference. The only reason people notice is that they know beforehand that they were CGI and pay extra attention to it.

hell...I thought they found a Tarkin look alike....I bought it. I was staring at him going "damn he really looks like Tarkin thats amazing"....I didn't know anything going in about that either. I knew he was dead though so I knew it wasn't him. Leia though I was like....thats CGI.

I saw it in 2D btw....they say in 3D it is not very good.
I had the same reaction for both these characters. Tarkin was really well done, but Leia was just bad.
Lord_TyTy
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Here to say, really enjoyed the movie. It's not perfect, obviously, but it was about as near as a spin-off could be. My biggest complaint is about Vader's weird Tower of Mordor castle and his awkward choking pun (Note these are still tiny complaints and didn't really detract from the movie as a whole). Also, despite its briefness, the scene of Vader going out on the rebels kicked so much ass
VanZandt92
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Lord_TyTy said:

Here to say, really enjoyed the movie. It's not perfect, obviously, but it was about as near as a spin-off could be. My biggest complaint is about Vader's weird Tower of Mordor castle and his awkward choking pun (Note these are still tiny complaints and didn't really detract from the movie as a whole). Also, despite its briefness, the scene of Vader going out on the rebels kicked so much ass


Oh I almost forgot the Mordor tower. Damn.
3rdGen2015
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Totally disagree. Vader's castle is badass and I hope we see more of it.
Flashdiaz
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I loved Vaders castle an de am glad they finally put it in a movie. It was instantly recognizable based on old renderings and I'll go ahead and predict we'll see it again
AliasMan02
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Flashdiaz said:

I loved Vaders castle an de am glad they finally put it in a movie. It was instantly recognizable based on old renderings and I'll go ahead and predict we'll see it again


I was actually wondering if this was the last time we see a proper Vader on screen. I don't think he could carry a whole movie on his own, but a Dark Times flick with the Inquisitorius and some bounty hunters competing to kill a Jedi in hiding has potential. Vader would have a major supporting role in that.

Or a take on the Force Unleashed storyline.
Buck Compton
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BMX Bandit said:

For 2-D, The complaints about Tarkin CGI are wildly exaggerated
We watched it in 2D. It was my girlfriend's first Star Wars experience, and she didn't even notice he was CGI until the last scene he was in.

It was obvious, and I doubt it ages well, but it was still great work. I admit they should have done better filming him from behind/less extended dialogue with a close up of his face and they woulda been fine.
oragator
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There is also the issue of James Earl Jones being 85.
wangus12
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Won't be shocked if we see Kylo go there in one of the saga films.

I feel like people keep forgetting that Baze was once "the most devoted guardian" on Jedha. He lost his faith following the Empire's take over and while he stays as Chirrut's guardian, he certainly doesn't care for the Force. Chirrut's last march and his incredible belief finally help bring Baze full circle and back to his belief. Was it the best way to do it? Probably not, but it made sense to me since he was basically cornered by what is supposed to be some very "badass" troopers. He goes out taking all the *******s down.
InternetFan02
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TCTTS said:

Some interesting critiques of the movie on a more technically, story-telling level...

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/21/rogue-one-film-crit-hulk-the-slippery-sloping-story-of-rogue-one

I definitely don't agree with everything here, but he does make some good points.
this article reads exactly like the TCTTS takedown of The Force Awkens last year. Nitpicking the **** out of everything and constantly interjecting ways it should have been made better.

Having said that, I agree with most of the article. Especially where he points out how the Vader end scene should have had bigger stakes instead of just being dessert for the fans.
Brian Earl Spilner
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$17M Tuesday. Essentially 0% drop from Monday.
Sex Panther
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Movie was dope... Vader going off at the end was worth the price of admission
GiveEmHellBill
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Just saw it for a second time and tried to pay more attention to the score (which made zero impact on me the first time).

What I noticed this time was that there was some good music/themes in those opening scenes where we were bouncing around all the different planets. That was good.

Then, when the main storyline really got started, the music seemingly faded into the background and stayed there for the rest of the movie.

One interesting tidbit I picked up on the second viewing: when Senator Organa is leaving Yavin 4 and gives the line "I would trust her with my life." He walks out and says "Captain Antilles, I have a mission for you." Well, that explains how/why Artoo and Threepio made it onto the Tantive IV: their master (prior to meeting Luke on Tatooine) was Captain Antilles.
oragator
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

$17M Tuesday. Essentially 0% drop from Monday.

Schools are getting out, my county finished yesterday and the county south of us was today. Gonna kick into high gear for a few weeks.
Zombie Jon Snow
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InternetFan02 said:

TCTTS said:

Some interesting critiques of the movie on a more technically, story-telling level...

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/21/rogue-one-film-crit-hulk-the-slippery-sloping-story-of-rogue-one

I definitely don't agree with everything here, but he does make some good points.
this article reads exactly like the TCTTS takedown of The Force Awkens last year. Nitpicking the **** out of everything and constantly interjecting ways it should have been made better.

Having said that, I agree with most of the article. Especially where he points out how the Vader end scene should have had bigger stakes instead of just being dessert for the fans.


I actually don't agree. Especially on the Vader part.

Look it might be trite or too neat but basically you can't have Vader killing the main characters or you can't sell Vader merchandise. Even in the originals he never killed anyone known. Even Obi Wan basically let him kill him. He is the main villain and you have to maintain that aura so he gets to kill nobodies like chewing up candy but he doesn't go around killing every main character.

Vader only killed like 12 people onscreen and 3 were on his side. Most of the others were in space battles.

Now Anakin was a different story but mostly he killed freaky aliens and droids before the slaughter of the young Jedi.

Kylo killing Han was also an exception because Ford was done with the series. You do have to have some to establish the villain. But mostly they killl fodder.

Anyway it was great dessert. Loved it. If he mowed down the entire RO cast well it would fo over about as well as the slaughter of Jedi children did. Imho
Engine10
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GiveEmHellBill said:

He walks out and says "Captain Antilles, I have a mission for you." Well, that explains how/why Artoo and Threepio made it onto the Tantive IV: their master (prior to meeting Luke on Tatooine) was Captain Antilles.


Loved this. So subtle, but connects another dot.
Engine10
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One of the things Rogue One did for me was highlight how disjointed, underpowered, and scrappy the Rebel fleet / capital ships are in this Saga. Not a book reader so the movies are my only point of reference.

When the call goes out that they have a chance to steal the plans, basically the entire fleet shows up. This is, or at least felt to me, their first major action in space as a rebellion.

In those moments in space, it's a contested battle at best, even with the element of surprise. The empire's resources were just too vast for them to hold off indefinitely or take the day.

We don't see the fleet again until the end of V, and then obviously VI - but now I realize that they didn't have a whole lot left after Scarif, and nearly lost the whole damn thing in Vader's surprise attack.

If I'm off on this I'd like to know, but it sure felt like the rebel fleet nearly lost it all on Scarif, only to narrowly escape with the plans.
Philip J Fry
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Already knew that from Ep IV, but still cool.
PatAg
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bangobango said:

TCTTS said:

Some interesting critiques of the movie on a more technically, story-telling level...

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/21/rogue-one-film-crit-hulk-the-slippery-sloping-story-of-rogue-one

I definitely don't agree with everything here, but he does make some good points.
Quote:

And I even liked the idea of a pilot who is losing his mind. I liked that there wasn't really a single white dude

wtf is wrong with people right now?

Sorry, not to derail too much, but Jesus Christ I'm sick of **** like this everywhere you turn.
Actually, the main white guy was the "heartless head of intelligence" Who I was not really familiar with before The Night Manager but he was excellent in it.

just saying, I felt represented too
rhutton125
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Look at it this way: every time a movie with a diverse cast comes along, it makes it harder for people to complain about it later.

The alternative is a thousand articles a week about "is Star Wars an example of Hollywood whitewashing?" and "controversy" - hard to argue when the last two films have been chock full of diversity. Rogue One is a nice STFU (if needed) for a future film with a predominantly white cast. Maybe Episode 8.
PlanoAggie
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Philo B 93 said it best!!

I couldn't wait for Rogue One to be over -- all the planet hoping irritated the heck out of me. I couldn't get into the characters at all -- even the K2SO(or whatever he was called) was too human-like, his ability to reason and care was a bit much for a droid. The only thing that saved it for me, was that everyone died. lol

I enjoyed Force Awakens 1000% more!

Funny thing is, my 13 yr old LOVED Rogue One. I guess I'm officially an old fart.



BMX Bandit
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PlanoAggie said:

Philo B 93 said it best!!

I couldn't wait for Rogue One to be over -- all the planet hoping irritated the heck out of me. I couldn't get into the characters at all -- even the K2SO(or whatever he was called) was too human-like, his ability to reason and care was a bit much for a droid. The only thing that saved it for me, was tha everyone died. lol

I enjoyed Force Awakens 1000% more!

Funny thing is, my 13 yr old LOVED Rogue One. I guess I'm officially an old fart.






Nothing pisses me off more than when a movie set in A galaxy far far away in which many different aliens speak English, has "droids that are not realistic"
Zombie Jon Snow
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seems such a bizarre reaction to me to love/hate RO/TFA either which way.....

when you have the PREQUELS as the obvious HATE HATE HATE.

It goes like this:


4,5,6,TFA,RO = LOVE on some level, but yes, maybe some more than others
-------------------------------------------------
1,2,3 = HATE on some level or all equally, but possibly not 3 as much as 1 or 2



So I just don't get talking about HATING RO or TFA....save your hate for the prequels.
AgGrad99
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Seems like too many people feel the need to choose between the last two movies.

TFA and R1 were very different, but both great.
PlanoAggie
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BMX,

For example, why would a droid/bot ask if someone wants to know the probability of something? If I'm comparing to C3PO, then K2whatever, should've just told the probability. He did this several times and it irritated me. I'm sorry this drives you bonkers. I have seen every Star Wars movie at the theater on it's debut weekend. I was 8 yrs old when "Star Wars" first came out and have been a fan since.
The Collective
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I just took it as him being a bit of an *******. "Hey, do you want to know this bad news... no? Well, I am telling you anyway." To each his own though, I realize it is impossible for them to make a Star Wars movie that everyone will enjoy. Hell, I've criticized Star Wars films that others enjoy too.
BMX Bandit
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It's a fiction movie set in space. Droids can literally do anything. There's nothing that should limit them from asking about probabilities. Why wouldn't they?

If droids doing something bothers you, better stick to documentaries.

Yours may be the oddest complaint I've ever heard about star wars.
 
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