Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (spoilers and discussion)

216,647 Views | 1640 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Fat Bib Fortuna
The Collective
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Quote:

How did the Alliance know to attack Eadu? Was it because Cassian had transmitted the location from the ship after they escape Jedha? I believe so, but that makes his line about not being able to transmit a message to the Alliance about bringing back Galen to share what he knew because they were in the middle of Empirial space more dubious. Why can he transmit one message but not the other? If he was having doubts about his secret order to assassinate him, seems sharing more information with his superiors would have made sense. I guess I can reason why he would have played it close to the vest, just seems like a poor argument for others on the ship given he just sent a secret message about Eadu, but now he can't send another?


I'm confused... Perhaps lack of contact had something to do with the fact that they weren't in the U-Wing when they left Eadu, and also the Imperials would be scanning all frequencies since they just had a base attacked - IDK.

The alliance sent Cassian a message to continue his mission (kill Jyn's father) once they were on there way to Eadu. They were somehow tracking the mission, remember the alliance lost contact with the U-Wing when it crashed, and that's when they sent the x-wing raid.
israeliag
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Yoda said:

Saw it for the second time last night. Observations:
  • Jedha is intriguing. If this was their "Vatican City", what was the temple on Coruscant? What about the ancient temple where Rey finds Luke? I can see the temple on Coruscant just being another temple, think big church in NY city where all the action is, but it does seem like there would be a story as to why the birthplace of the Jedi order would be the island and not Jedha.
  • How did the Alliance know to attack Eadu? Was it because Cassian had transmitted the location from the ship after they escape Jedha? I believe so, but that makes his line about not being able to transmit a message to the Alliance about bringing back Galen to share what he knew because they were in the middle of Empirial space more dubious. Why can he transmit one message but not the other? If he was having doubts about his secret order to assassinate him, seems sharing more information with his superiors would have made sense. I guess I can reason why he would have played it close to the vest, just seems like a poor argument for others on the ship given he just sent a secret message about Eadu, but now he can't send another?

Re: Jedha - if you want to compare it to Catholicism, then: Temple on Couruscant = Vatican City (center of the clergy but not really connected to any holy history); Jedha = Church of Sepulcher or Jerusalem (holy site); where Rey finds Luke = Nazareth

Re: Eadu - The alliance (or more accurately Cassian's superior) knew Cassian was going to Eadu to assassinate Galen. When they lost contact with Cassian, they sent a squadron to bomb Galen instead so that the mission would still be successful.
Urban Ag
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I took my kids again yesterday after seeing it over two weeks ago. All three of us agreed we liked it even more the second time. This is a really good movie and Edwards, IMO, was amazing in capturing "the feel" of the OT and the buildup to a New Hope. I'd go as far to say, sans obvious technical advances in special effects, that if someone who had never seen a SW movie view R1 then the OT in that order, that the flow would be perfect.

Does R1 have flaws? Of course. But what doesn't? Overall it was outstanding. I'm tempted to place it on par with ESB. At worst, second best film in the franchise. Much better film than TFA. Really exciting that Disney has proven what they can do with the franchise outside of the story of the Skywalkers.
Ag Since 83
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the danger about transmitting was more about the content of the message: what they couldn't risk the Empire intercepting and learning what the Rebellion knew
Urban Ag
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Ag Since 83 said:

the danger about transmitting was more about the content of the message: what they couldn't risk the Empire intercepting and learning what the Rebellion knew
This seemed pretty clear to me.

Jyn learns what her father was really up to before leaving Jedda.
Cassion contacts rebel base, confirms Death Star existence and that Gaylan is on Eadu.
Rebel general re-confirms his orders stand.
Jyn relays to Cassion what she learned about her father.
At this point, Cassion can't send that message because the content, if intercepted, would let the Imperials know the Death Star has a built in weakness.

The Collective
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Great point.
benMath08
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Here's a really interesting interview with the editors: https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/rogue-ones-editors-reveal-scenes-added-in-the-star-wars-standalone-reshoots-exclusive-110124381.html

One thing that surprised me is this line:
Quote:

There was no screenplay, there was just a story breakdown at that point, scene by scene. He got me to rip hundreds of movies and basically make 'Rogue One' using other films so that they could work out how much dialogue they actually needed in the film.
Is that at all a normal thing to do for a movie? I'd love to see the entire edit he came up with.
israeliag
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This might be a silly theory: but could Chirrut's sacrifice be related to why stormtroopers have **** aim (they seemed to have pretty decent aim earlier in the film)? Or at least, the same reason they couldn't hit him (the Force was with him, and he was one with the Force) be the same reason others were so hard to hit in the OT?
AliasMan02
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I think that reads too much into it. A few new expanded canon sources talk a out the relative poor quality of Stormtrooper training compared to the clones. It's also notably why the First Order trains from birth.
JJxvi
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I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
israeliag
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JJxvi said:

I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
Agreed that there's definitely a prescience that force-sensitives have, including for avoiding blaster fire. However, the scene of Chirrut walking in a straight line and not getting hit (by death troopers, not just storm troopers) as well as some other sources (i.e. Clone Wars series) infer that the Force is not just something to be used, but something with its own... mind? It was almost like it was choosing to help Chirrut. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.

To expand on that a bit, we had seen him be one with the Force (blind ninja skillz), but only then in that scene do we see the Force be with him. Hmm.... have we talked about the Force as a character with its own arc through the movie?
fig96
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israeliag said:

JJxvi said:

I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
Agreed that there's definitely a prescience that force-sensitives have, including for avoiding blaster fire. However, the scene of Chirrut walking in a straight line and not getting hit (by death troopers, not just storm troopers) as well as some other sources (i.e. Clone Wars series) infer that the Force is not just something to be used, but something with its own... mind? It was almost like it was choosing to help Chirrut. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.
I took that as him truly believing the Force could and would protect him, a mind over matter sort of thing.

His earlier use of the Force was more something he's learned as sort of an extension of the sight he doesn't have (a la Luke in ANH feeling what's around him with the blast helmet on), he was able to "see" because of the Force but he's obviously been trained to fight.

Later on he's chanting his mantra, trying to truly believe he can do the impossible, and as he completely trusts in the Force his faith allowed him to reach the switch unharmed.
pagerman @ work
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Midichlorians don't want to get shot either.
redline248
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israeliag said:

JJxvi said:

I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
Agreed that there's definitely a prescience that force-sensitives have, including for avoiding blaster fire. However, the scene of Chirrut walking in a straight line and not getting hit (by death troopers, not just storm troopers) as well as some other sources (i.e. Clone Wars series) infer that the Force is not just something to be used, but something with its own... mind? It was almost like it was choosing to help Chirrut. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.
I think it's safe to say that the Force can manipulate things through Force users. Yoda talks about it to Luke, and so does Kenobi. When Luke destroys the Death Star, he was letting the Force "guide" him to when to release the torpedoes. Anakin as a pod racer, or Rey being able to defeat Kylo are probably good examples, as well.

The scene with Chirrut, however, seems to be more the Force causing the shots to go wide, which is a little different implementation than we've seen. He doesn't appear to dodge, duck, dive, dip, or dodge. This one is the hardest to explain, in my opinion.
benMath08
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Oh yea, well I call it luck.

-Han Solo
Yoda
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Urban Ag said:

Ag Since 83 said:

the danger about transmitting was more about the content of the message: what they couldn't risk the Empire intercepting and learning what the Rebellion knew
This seemed pretty clear to me.

Jyn learns what her father was really up to before leaving Jedda.
Cassion contacts rebel base, confirms Death Star existence and that Gaylan is on Eadu.
Rebel general re-confirms his orders stand.
Jyn relays to Cassion what she learned about her father.
At this point, Cassion can't send that message because the content, if intercepted, would let the Imperials know the Death Star has a built in weakness.



I hear you, though I am not sure it makes sense to send a message confirming "we know the Death Star is real and the guy responsible for its design has been confirmed to be on Jedha" is a safe thing to send. True, saying, "We have reason to believe he is secretly aligned with the Rebel cause, and we want to bring him to you to explain how to defeat the Death Star" is a far more dangerous message.

In the end, not a big deal. I just found myself wondering if we are to take Cassian's claim that it was too dangerous to send the message fully at face value, or was it him making excuses b/c at that point he was still trying to be 100% about his assasination mission.
The Collective
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From the article above (pretty neat):
Quote:

What was interesting about that was that we had one day right at the beginning of the process back in 2014, and Gareth and I had just done a tour of the archives at Skywalker ranch, and as we were leaving we came out of the back. And out the back there were racks and racks of film and Gareth said 'what's that?'

And they said 'that's the original reels from 'A New Hope'', and Gareth said 'can we see that? See what's on it?' And they were like 'yeah, I guess!'

And that's where the idea came from. We went through those cans of film and looked at them and it was like 'oh my gosh, we can and integrate the pilots in somehow.'
AliasMan02
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CJS4715 said:

From the article above (pretty neat):
Quote:

What was interesting about that was that we had one day right at the beginning of the process back in 2014, and Gareth and I had just done a tour of the archives at Skywalker ranch, and as we were leaving we came out of the back. And out the back there were racks and racks of film and Gareth said 'what's that?'

And they said 'that's the original reels from 'A New Hope'', and Gareth said 'can we see that? See what's on it?' And they were like 'yeah, I guess!'

And that's where the idea came from. We went through those cans of film and looked at them and it was like 'oh my gosh, we can and integrate the pilots in somehow.'



I thought Lucas destroyed the originals. He claimed to, anyway.
israeliag
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Just like Tarkin destroyed the plans to the Death Star.
JJxvi
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israeliag said:

JJxvi said:

I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
Agreed that there's definitely a prescience that force-sensitives have, including for avoiding blaster fire. However, the scene of Chirrut walking in a straight line and not getting hit (by death troopers, not just storm troopers) as well as some other sources (i.e. Clone Wars series) infer that the Force is not just something to be used, but something with its own... mind? It was almost like it was choosing to help Chirrut. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.

To expand on that a bit, we had seen him be one with the Force (blind ninja skillz), but only then in that scene do we see the Force be with him. Hmm.... have we talked about the Force as a character with its own arc through the movie?
It also could imply an active use of the force, although I would say such an extreme ability (bending the actions or events of an entire battle through influencing the force ie: something akin to using a mind trick on everybody trying to shoot at him) would seem to be more of a power reserved for someone with Jedi Knight level control rather than someone like Chirrut.
Brian Earl Spilner
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$64M over the four day weekend. Now up to $440M domestic and $800M global.

Started out slower than The Dark Knight, but it's now outpacing it. (TDK was at $400M at the same point, and finished with $533M.)

Only real question for me was whether or not it would break $1B. I figured it'd have to do at least $400M domestically to hit it. Gonna do much, much better than that. I bet it settles between 1.2 and 1.4 billion.
aTmAg
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israeliag said:

JJxvi said:

I generally feel that force sensitive types are basically able to feel where to go and how to move so that they are not hit, and vice versa (able to hit targets that would be difficult otherwise)

I don't know that theres a whole lot of direct evidence of this (but this film certainly included a large portion of that evidence for it)
Agreed that there's definitely a prescience that force-sensitives have, including for avoiding blaster fire. However, the scene of Chirrut walking in a straight line and not getting hit (by death troopers, not just storm troopers) as well as some other sources (i.e. Clone Wars series) infer that the Force is not just something to be used, but something with its own... mind? It was almost like it was choosing to help Chirrut. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.

To expand on that a bit, we had seen him be one with the Force (blind ninja skillz), but only then in that scene do we see the Force be with him. Hmm.... have we talked about the Force as a character with its own arc through the movie?
That sorta thing happened to Desmond Doss. Japanese soldiers reported that they would have him dead in their sights but their guns would jam or miss or something. So it's not completely unheard of.
titan
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S

By the way, what was Krennic's rank in the EU literature?

It seemed as a Moff, Tarkin outranked him clearly. So he wasn't a GAd Thrawn rank, take it?

(I have read the Zahn novels -- but missed alot of the EU -- just too massive and tangled ) since the days of the prequels. )
Farmer1906
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titan said:


By the way, what was Krennic's rank in the EU literature?

It seemed as a Moff, Tarkin outranked him clearly. So he wasn't a GAd Thrawn rank, take it?

(I have read the Zahn novels -- but missed alot of the EU -- just too massive and tangled ) since the days of the prequels. )

He went from Lieutenant Commander to Commander back to Lieutenant Commander in Catalyst. It wouldn't be shocking if he was Commander, Captain, or some type of Admiral by the time R1 takes place.
titan
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aggie1906,

Thanks for the crash update. I won't comment on what is in the spoiler bars.
The Collective
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What is the "Director" title that is used for him?
titan
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Refers to his project, not an office. I believe Jerjerrod in ROTJ also had it in the novelizaiton.
AliasMan02
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CJS4715 said:

What is the "Director" title that is used for him?
He was the Director of the Advanced Weapons Research program.

The Empire was nuts with all of its different ranks and titles and uniforms, but that's actually a pretty common thing in a nationalist military.
double aught
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redline248 said:

israeliag said:

He doesn't appear to dodge, duck, dive, dip, or dodge.

redline248
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I'm glad someone appreciated that.
ChipFTAC01
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I too gave you a chuckle.
oragator
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Well, it is sitting around 830 million WW, 450 million domestic with maybe two decent weekends left for it.
But it is slated to open tomorrow in China, if it does well there a billion WW is within reach.
cone
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saw Force Awakens again on cable

Rey as played by Daisy is a legit great character

much much better job than Jyn/Felicity
Brian Earl Spilner
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A billion worldwide is not even in question at this point. It'll do at least $100M more domestically alone.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

A billion worldwide is not even in question at this point. It'll do at least $100M more domestically alone.

yeah feeling pretty good about my $500-$550 domestic $1.1 billion WW projection.

Might actually top that by a little...thats huge in any context except the SW:TFA context (or Avatar).

But for a spinoff/tangent/midquel story thats huge. And bears well for the there SW Anthology movies.


 
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