aTmAg said:

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Any superfans know if Lucas wrote the dialog for OT? Or did he have help with that? The difference between OT and the prequels is night and day.

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Lucas wrote like 6 drafts of SW - he certainly wrote the original story. By the end it bore little resemblance to the original though. And even he admits he wasn't good at dialogue. He had a lot of help and after the 3rd draft or so he even brought in others to "polish" the dialogue specifically. He says about 30% of the dialogue in SW was redone by them. (Probably more). then on set Harrison Ford especially was infamous for calling Lucas out on th dialogue and told him paraphrasing something like "you can write this ****, but you sure as hell can't say it" and he would write his own notes in the margins of the script and change things to sound more natural. Guiness and Fisher also took more liberties with their lines it is said.

On ESB he specifically hired a screenwriter (who tragically died after the first draft). He had the story treatment mapped out but she wrote the script. He then wrote the 2nd draft. He then had Lawrence Kasdan take over and he handled the later rewrites. Kasdan also wrote most of RotJ I believe but I'm not sure about that. Again the actors also took a lot of liberties with the dialogue on set.


I really don't know on the prequels - my recollection is that he had much more control and the actors stuck much more to what he had written. It was known as a very stoic environment working in front f blue screens and ther was little dynamic acting per se. But I'm not expert on those really.

I remember reading (probably on this board) that all the scenes in the prequels were pretty much done in one take (or very minimal takes) and that Lucas didn't care how bad it was.

Lucas is listed as the only writer on episodes 1 and 3.

So I think it's safe to say Rogue One is pretty good. Even if it's not your favorite Star Wars movie, most sane people can agree that it's at better than at least two of the prequels. I'd rank it in the top 4 of my favorite Star Wars movies.

Anyway, I'm curious about how y'all think R1 will compare to the other stand-alone movies. I really liked that R1, while obviously contributing to the Saga storyline, doesn't directly impact what we might think of already-existing main characters. For me personally, I'm more interested in the back story on events rather than individuals.

Cstrickland05 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Agree 100% on ROTJ. It takes a lot of **** due to the ewoks, but otherwise, I thought it was a great film. Jabba act was awesome. Vader-Luke-Emporer scene was great. Space battle was great. And the forest speeder chase was great.

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+1. Always liked ROTJ. Until Texags, I never knew it was looked down upon. Yes the Ewoks are super cheesy, but it's an awesome movie otherwise. Just don't watch the special edition with Christiansen as ghost Anakin.

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I never disliked it and I never even had an issue with the ewoks. However, it always was my third favorite of the original trilogy. I always chalked that up to personal preference. Similar to how my favorite star wars is still a new hope and not Empire

For me, I always had it right there with IV. I enjoy the opening act (Jabba) and the closing act (Luke-Emporer-Vader + a better space battle) much more.

Should be passing $400M worldwide today.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Should be passing $400M worldwide today.

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oh...WW...ok.

Domestic tied for 9th fastest to $200M btw.

fig96 said:

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biobioprof said:

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The post-release over-analysis is part of the fun with this franchise. This piece at Wired is amusing wrt the war part:

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Lack of planning at the senior levels of the Rebel Alliance trickles down to the lowest level as well. When Jyn and Rebel officer Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) team up with a group of Rebel troops to mount a crazy raid on Scarif, they don't plan for any outcome past the first stage: getting there. Jyn's mission brief is, essentially, "We're going to go until we hit the next obstacle, overcome it, and then go from there." You may just need to re-evaluate your grasp on the war-fighting functions if this is what you think military planning is.

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Contrast this with the Imperial officers, who, when presented with a crisis, either ask for more data or push the question to a higher echelon. There's no more clear example of their misplaced priorities than Director Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) heading up small unit operations on Scarif -- which is essentially like a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff directing a platoon-level firefight. The Empire is mighty, but still bends its knee to Micromanagement. But hey, that's what you get when you have a political appointee running joint Imperial operations who likes to force-choke people he disagrees with.

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Yeah, that's just gross overanalysis.

Krennic is there to check on the documents he's looking for about the Death Star. When the base is invaded, something totally foreign to the leadership there as I'm sure it had never happened before, they freeze and Krennic is the one who kicks their defenses into gear.

If a high ranking officer is on-site during a military emergency why wouldn't they take command, especially if the leadership in place isn't doing their job?

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Your qualifier about not doing their jobs kind of agrees with the writer, though, doesn't it? Consider Rumsfeld during 9/11. He joined the rescue efforts and pitched in, but didn't directly take over from the response team. I suspect that was true of a lot of military people at the Pentagon that day.

I think it's more about storytelling and the feudal feel of the Star Wars universe, though. e.g. Jedi Knights, not Jedi Colonels.

biobioprof said:

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fig96 said:

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biobioprof said:

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The post-release over-analysis is part of the fun with this franchise. This piece at Wired is amusing wrt the war part:

Quote:

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Lack of planning at the senior levels of the Rebel Alliance trickles down to the lowest level as well. When Jyn and Rebel officer Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) team up with a group of Rebel troops to mount a crazy raid on Scarif, they don't plan for any outcome past the first stage: getting there. Jyn's mission brief is, essentially, "We're going to go until we hit the next obstacle, overcome it, and then go from there." You may just need to re-evaluate your grasp on the war-fighting functions if this is what you think military planning is.

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Quote:

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Contrast this with the Imperial officers, who, when presented with a crisis, either ask for more data or push the question to a higher echelon. There's no more clear example of their misplaced priorities than Director Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) heading up small unit operations on Scarif -- which is essentially like a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff directing a platoon-level firefight. The Empire is mighty, but still bends its knee to Micromanagement. But hey, that's what you get when you have a political appointee running joint Imperial operations who likes to force-choke people he disagrees with.

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Yeah, that's just gross overanalysis.

Krennic is there to check on the documents he's looking for about the Death Star. When the base is invaded, something totally foreign to the leadership there as I'm sure it had never happened before, they freeze and Krennic is the one who kicks their defenses into gear.

If a high ranking officer is on-site during a military emergency why wouldn't they take command, especially if the leadership in place isn't doing their job?

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Your qualifier about not doing their jobs kind of agrees with the writer, though, doesn't it? Consider Rumsfeld during 9/11. He joined the rescue efforts and pitched in, but didn't directly take over from the response team. I suspect that was true of a lot of military people at the Pentagon that day.

I think it's more about storytelling and the feudal feel of the Star Wars universe, though. e.g. Jedi Knights, not Jedi Colonels.

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The thing is, considering the general state of this universe I'm curious how much of the Empire's military was actually qualified to do anything? They'd have thousands of bases, virtually none of which had ever been attacked or taken part in a significant military exercise. The chances of the random officer in charge of this one having any experience on how to respond during an emergency event is slim to none.

Man, I still remember the day that was announced. I was working from home and had CNBC on in the background. They went to a newsflash and announced the deal, as well as the announcement of a new Star Wars trilogy. I was so stunned that I damn near fell out of my chair. I didn't think we would ever get another Star Wars movie and any new content would be in the EU. Now, we've had two great movies in two years with a third one due next year with more to come. Despite some flaws, I love playing Battlefront on my XB1, and there are more games on the way. Thank you Disney (I own Disney stock as well so I am literally invested in the success of Star Wars)!

CJS4715 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Should be passing $400M worldwide today.

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We should all be thankful Disney bought this franchise.

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I always believed in the mouse

I guess am I the only one who was/is not all that excited about Disney buying Star Wars? I say that having really enjoyed TFA and Rogue 1 - but something in me just really liked the closure that Episode VI brought to the story and I wish it had just ended there. It was so perfect in my mind at least.

Part of me is also slightly miffed that if Disney continues to make SW movies indefinitely, I may die not knowing how the saga ends.

TriumphForks said:

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I guess am I the only one who was/is not all that excited about Disney buying Star Wars? I say that having really enjoyed TFA and Rogue 1 - but something in me just really liked the closure that Episode VI brought to the story and I wish it had just ended there. It was so perfect in my mind at least.

Part of me is also slightly miffed that if Disney continues to make SW movies indefinitely, I may die not knowing how the saga ends.

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If it ended at 6. Maybe. But Lucas chased that down with the. craptastic 1-3. We need at least 5-6 chasers to get that taste out of our mouths.

TriumphForks said:

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I guess am I the only one who was/is not all that excited about Disney buying Star Wars? I say that having really enjoyed TFA and Rogue 1 - but something in me just really liked the closure that Episode VI brought to the story and I wish it had just ended there. It was so perfect in my mind at least.

Part of me is also slightly miffed that if Disney continues to make SW movies indefinitely, I may die not knowing how the saga ends.

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Had the prequels (and subsequent update to Jedi) not been made, I would agree with you. But they were, and the property needed to be redeemed.

With as good of a job as they have done with marvel, I was on board.

Should have read johns post and just stared it.

Movie was great. Loved seeing Vader be Vader.

Since there's been so much chat about the prequels, here's a critics take on his top 11 things GOOD about the 1-3 prequels....

I'm a big fan of this guy's work and find his usual reviews pretty entertaining.....and a lot of the things discussed on this thread he comments about, but also discusses other things to maybe give y'all a different perspective on some positive things to take away.....

Btw....has some language but it's not over the top vulgar

jokershady said:

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Since there's been so much chat about the prequels, here's a critics take on his top 11 things GOOD about the 1-3 prequels....

I'm a big fan of this guy's work and find his usual reviews pretty entertaining.....and a lot of the things discussed on this thread he comments about, but also discusses other things to maybe give y'all a different perspective on some positive things to take away.....

Btw....has some language but it's not over the top vulgar

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well.....he had to work pretty hard to come up with 11 things....from 3 movies.


2 are complete reaches:

10 - basically giving Lucas credit for recognizing the mistake of Jar Jar and limiting him in 2 and 3. Thats not a positive - thats simply acknowledging a giant mistake.

8. - a throwaway joke line. seriously if thats one of your top 11....well thats says a lot.

Couple of others are pretty forgettable really.

He does make an interesting point about Hayden Christensen - being very very good in any action and any glaring/expression shots as opposed to how bad he was working with any dialogue. I am willing to chalk that up to Lucas direction (and the challenge of working purely blue screen for a young actor) pointing out other stilted performances from good actors.


And yes there was some very good:

Ewan as Obi Wan
the dual light sabre duel with Darth Maul
Yoda going badass
the emperors transformation and very over the top (in a good way) performance
intro scene in RotS

But again...from a trilogy. 7.5 hours of movies. Just proving it should/could be cut down to one great 2.5 hour movie (excluding everything from 1 except Darth Maul battle).

The Yoda scene is awful.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Yoda going badass

I might be alone on this but I thought this sucked, was unnneded and change the character in a negative way.

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yeah he listed it....i am very back and forth on this. At times I hate it, other times it makes me giddy.

I just remember the buildup to the movie and people saying wait until you see Yoda....was funny at least. I do recall thinking well no puppet could do that. I don't know like I said I go back and forth on it.

Ya I think that was the point of a few of them.....all of those types are "top 11" and he even says at the beginning with jar jar that it's kind of cheap to include that.

Same thing with yoda....recognizes that it still was probably better to keep how he fought off screen and that it was more hilarious to watch than anything else.

Personally, I was surprised after he talked about Christiansen how his perspective made a decent amount of sense

You want a good laugh, watch his review of the Star Wars holiday special....I've never seen the actual movie itself but after watching his review I don't think I need to

Yoda vs. Dooku or Palps should have been handled like Gandalf / Saruman.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Yoda going badass

I might be alone on this but I thought this sucked, was unnneded and change the character in a negative way.

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yeah he listed it....i am very back and forth on this. At times I hate it, other times it makes me giddy.

I just remember the buildup to the movie and people saying wait until you see Yoda....was funny at least. I do recall thinking well no puppet could do that. I don't know like I said I go back and forth on it.

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The absolute worst thing about the prequels was Yoda. Not just his fight seen but all of Yoda. When we were first introduced to the character in ESB, he was an old and frail man, full of quips and bad jokes but also wisdom and a certain comforting warmth. He was like your great uncle. We had a feeling he was a badass in the day but we weren't sure, and we got a small glimpse when he lifted Luke's X-Wing from the swamp. We were in awe of that, and it left us with a sense of mystery and wonder about him. That was the brilliance of the character.

In the prequels, Lucas not only lifted the veil but threw it on the ground and burned it then gathered the ashes and blew them in our faces. He CGI'd all the soul out of Yoda. He might as well have showed Yoda getting diarrhea from a bad batch of blue milk.

The flights, the floating around, the riding around in the troop transports, etc. To me it was even worse than Jar-Jar.

Yoda going all Chun Li on an 80 year old actor was one of the dumbest things ever.