Y wing i thought

M.C. Swag said:

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I guess the order depends on whether you're a purist. But if you're mixing and matching the order to begin with, R1 going first shouldn't be a big deal and I think narratively makes more sense than going between Ep. 3 and Ep. 6. (of Machete order)

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Agreed. Only real thing to consider is that this really isn't an episode so its going to throw things off for obvious reasons so technically there is no incorrect order. When I have nerdlings of my own they will watch it a certain order that I think works.

I think it was a A wing doing uncontrollable barrel rolls.

No, in this case you'd watch 4, 5, 1 (optional), 2, 3, RO, 6, 7.

dromo07 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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I guess the order depends on whether you're a purist. But if you're mixing and matching the order to begin with, R1 going first shouldn't be a big deal and I think narratively makes more sense than going between Ep. 3 and Ep. 6. (of Machete order)

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Agreed. Only real thing to consider is that this really isn't an episode so its going to throw things off for obvious reasons so technically there is no incorrect order. When I have nerdlings of my own they will watch it a certain order that I think works.

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Exactly, its your call. I personally love machete order and was how I chose to introduce my girlfriend to Star Wars last year before Ep. 7 dropped. (The series is actually way more fun to watch when you eliminate Ep.1 and my girlfriend loved it. Unfortunately due to pop culture, the Vader reveal wasnt impactful like it should have been.) If/whenever I get kids, I think I'll include R1 and make it the first watch before ANH.

they had already brought down the star destroyers shields. Any attack on the bride would have done damage.

as for the whole Leia thing, she didn't know Vader saw them leave or maybe there's a bunch of those types of ships. She lied to him to see if it would work, what do you want her to say "yo, you got me "

I think that is perfect. You get just enough intro to the universe and then going deeper down the rabbit hole on to how the plans were retrieved. I think if you start with R1 you miss out what/who Vader is to the story.

Here's a galactic cartography question:

Yavin is the green planet top center of the galaxy map below
Eadu is as of yet unknown (aoyu) but presumably near Yavin for how quickly they flit back and forth there / recieving transmissions quickly, etc. - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Jedha is aoyu - described as "mid rim" by wookieepedia
Scarif is aoyu but presumably near Yavin for how quickly the Rebel fleet arrives there - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Mustafar is clear opposite the galaxy of Yavin at the 6'o'clock position (how did Vader arrive so fast to Scarif?)
Tatooine is at the lower 3'o'clock position, right next to Geonosis
Alderaan is the blue planet near the middle.

Depending on where Scarif is really located - but outer rim regardless - why would the "planet that is farthest from" the center of the Galaxy (near Alderaan) be a way point in Leia's mind form Scarif? Vader knew she was lying, but why would Leia even make a stop at Tatooine from Scarif? (unless Scarif is very close to Tatooine which there is no evidence for yet).

dromo07 said:

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That would be a weird jump between 3 and Rogue One

I would start with RO then go with the Machete order... but thats just me

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yeah but....the real idea behind the watching order and machete order is in fact...

how would you propose watching it to someone who has NEVER seen any of it before?

In that context I would not recommend RO first....I would ALWAYS recommend Star Wars first (sorry I can't call it Ep. IV....damn't I just did).

Anyway. While RO does serve as a nice intro to Vader in some sense....and gives nice realism, grit, background, context, etc. to the Republic, the Rebellion, etc...I still think I gotta go with Star Wars. Just too iconic. First of all you might think it's about Tarkin and Vader and the Rogue One crew and then....all of RO crew are dead....great. Second, by starting with RO you miss out on getting completely ingrained in the musical themes of Star Wars. Thirdly you also miss out on really "the Force" it's present in RO but not the way it is presented in Star Wars as this mythology and training a young protege from a master, etc.

Given that I gotta go with:

SW
Rogue One - now you pop back and have a nice prequel to what set that up
Ep 5 - ESB - shocking reveal of Luke preserved
Ep 2 and 3 - skip 1 of course and now you have Vaders back story and the Luke/Leia story after that reveal
Ep 6 - the climactic ending of joy and ewoks woo whoo
Ep 7 - TFA kind of the epilogue 30 years later, where are they now

This is a TRUE machete order now - nothing is in order much, its effectively

4, RO, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7

Quote:

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This is a TRUE machete order now - nothing is in order much, its effectively

4, 8, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7

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8?


I do kind of like stopping ANH when it gets to the part about attaining the plans and play RO as a flashback. I guess this will be the great nerd debate of 2016

Quote:

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.I still think I gotta go with Star Wars. Just too iconic. First of all you might think it's about Tarkin and Vader and the Rogue One crew and then....all of RO crew are dead....great.

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Don't see that as an issue. If anything, it makes my interest in what happens with Leia and the Death Star plans all the more important.

Quote:

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Second, by starting with RO you miss out on getting completely ingrained in the musical themes of Star Wars.

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Very valid point. Damn you Disney. The score for R1 is definitely subpar.

Quote:

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Thirdly you also miss out on really "the Force" it's present in RO but not the way it is presented in Star Wars as this mythology and training a young protege from a master, etc.

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Again, don't see the issue. I like that the force is only mentioned but not really shown. Which makes the Vader scene at the end all the more devasting. If I'm a first time viewer, seeing what Vader did to those rebels would put Luke's journey to defeat Vader in great perspective. (Considering we don't really ever see his capabilities in Ep. 4.)

my .02.

This is a super interesting debate. I think I would show the Saga films in 4 5 2 3 6 order and then from there go to RO and then into the ST.

dromo07 said:

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I understand what yo are saying but then you would have RO followed by ESB if you follow the intended order?

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Machete order isn't about seeing it in any type of chronological order...it's about whats the best order in terms of viewing effect - not to spoil things before they are revealed for example. and not to lose the viewer from boredom (in episode 1 by starting there for example).

Yes you have to pay attention in Machete Order and be willing to jump back and forth for the payoff of having the best viewing experience For that as I said I think now its

4
RO
5
2
3
6
7

dromo07 said:

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Quote:

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This is a TRUE machete order now - nothing is in order much, its effectively

4, 8, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7

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8?


I do kind of like stopping ANH when it gets to the part about attaining the plans and play RO as a flashback. I guess this will be the great nerd debate of 2016

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well where RO = 8 for now it;s the 8th movie released but

fine

4, RO, 5, 2, 3, 6, 7

SpreadsheetAg said:

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Here's a galactic cartography question:

Yavin is the green planet top center of the galaxy map below
Eadu is as of yet unknown (aoyu) but presumably near Yavin for how quickly they flit back and forth there / recieving transmissions quickly, etc. - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Jedha is aoyu - described as "mid rim" by wookieepedia
Scarif is aoyu but presumably near Yavin for how quickly the Rebel fleet arrives there - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Mustafar is clear opposite the galaxy of Yavin at the 6'o'clock position (how did Vader arrive so fast to Scarif?)
Tatooine is at the lower 3'o'clock position, right next to Geonosis
Alderaan is the blue planet near the middle.

Depending on where Scarif is really located - but outer rim regardless - why would the "planet that is farthest from" the center of the Galaxy (near Alderaan) be a way point in Leia's mind form Scarif? Vader knew she was lying, but why would Leia even make a stop at Tatooine from Scarif? (unless Scarif is very close to Tatooine which there is no evidence for yet).

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Space cartography and travel time is the most hand-wavey thing in the canon, for sure. The main explanation is that while distance is a factor, the quality of the hyperspace lanes matters more. The ones with the best relays (usually Imperial controlled lanes) are faster and safer. This is discussed a little it Tarkin.

Also, not all ships travel through hyperspace at the same speed.

Episode 7 raises the additional question of whether lightspeed is the same thing as hyperspace, but I think this was just a typical JJ disregard for logic when it comes to interstellar travel/distance.

M.C. Swag said:

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Quote:

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.I still think I gotta go with Star Wars. Just too iconic. First of all you might think it's about Tarkin and Vader and the Rogue One crew and then....all of RO crew are dead....great.

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Don't see that as an issue. If anything, it makes my interest in what happens with Leia and the Death Star plans all the more important.

Quote:

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Second, by starting with RO you miss out on getting completely ingrained in the musical themes of Star Wars.

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Very valid point. Damn you Disney. The score for R1 is definitely subpar.

Quote:

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Thirdly you also miss out on really "the Force" it's present in RO but not the way it is presented in Star Wars as this mythology and training a young protege from a master, etc.

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Again, don't see the issue. I like that the force is only mentioned but not really shown. Which makes the Vader scene at the end all the more devasting. If I'm a first time viewer, seeing what Vader did to those rebels would put Luke's journey to defeat Vader in great perspective. (Considering we don't really ever see his capabilities in Ep. 4.)

my .02.

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maybe....I just think you're seeing it from someone knowing what is coming. you could maybe talk a viewer into sticking with it sure.

A pure uninterested viewer sits there watches an entire move see everyone wiped out and an unknown princess at the end takes off and Vader is like damn foiled....i don't think they care....nor do they know or care who the hell those 2 droids were that were around a few scenes earlier. And the force means nothing to them..it's almost a joke. What Vader did would just be confusing really.

What Vader did "would put Luke's journey in better perspective" ok....but would they care to watch it...they don't know who Luke is...my question is...would they even care to see the next movie after that?

And the music part just kills it for me - they aren't inspired by the iconic music of Star Wars that grabbed us all. they don't even get the iconic Star Wars open with the theme and the crawl....

SpreadsheetAg said:

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Here's a galactic cartography question:

Yavin is the green planet top center of the galaxy map below
Eadu is as of yet unknown (aoyu) but presumably near Yavin for how quickly they flit back and forth there / recieving transmissions quickly, etc. - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Jedha is aoyu - described as "mid rim" by wookieepedia
Scarif is aoyu but presumably near Yavin for how quickly the Rebel fleet arrives there - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Mustafar is clear opposite the galaxy of Yavin at the 6'o'clock position (how did Vader arrive so fast to Scarif?)
Tatooine is at the lower 3'o'clock position, right next to Geonosis
Alderaan is the blue planet near the middle.

Depending on where Scarif is really located - but outer rim regardless - why would the "planet that is farthest from" the center of the Galaxy (near Alderaan) be a way point in Leia's mind form Scarif? Vader knew she was lying, but why would Leia even make a stop at Tatooine from Scarif? (unless Scarif is very close to Tatooine which there is no evidence for yet).

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Oh boy, time to really admit how much of a nerd I am...

As I have in front of me the Rogue One Ultimate Visual Guide which came out last Friday, and it has a new map, I can assure you that Scarif is near Tatooine, kind of on the way to Teth in your map, seeing as how Tatooine and Ryloth are in both maps so I can use that to establish direction.

Eadu is near Mon Cala and Lothal, towards Scarif and Tatooine, and Jedha is way on the other side sort of near Jakku

Quote:

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A pure uninterested viewer sits there watches an entire move see everyone wiped out and an unknown princess at the end takes off and Vader is like damn foiled....i don't think they care

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You would be content to end the story after that cliffhanger? I disagree. I would definitely want to know what happens next. And I'll be there to coach my kids who Princess Leia is (assuming pop culture fails to educate them on 1 of the most iconic film characters of all time.) So, that's not an issue in my mind.

Quote:

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....nor do they know or care who the hell those 2 droids were that were around a few scenes earlier. And the force means nothing to them..it's almost a joke. What Vader did would just be confusing really.

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Don't see how any of that is a concern? Knowing the force exists, while not understanding it entirely, is enough information to continue the narrative in R1. And again, I'll be there to answer any questions about 2 robots standing there, should the viewer be concerned. (which I don't think they would.)

Quote:

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What Vader did "would put Luke's journey in better perspective" ok....but would they care to watch it...

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I actually cant fathom how anyone would feel dissatisfied and want to stop watching at the conclusion of R1. If they were, then the odds they'd like the rest of Star Wars in any order is pretty slim. I nearly went straight home to pop in ANH after watching R1. Maybe you're right, and that's just because i have prior knowledge. But I honestly believe I would be MORE invested in the rebel cause and what happens with the plans.

Quote:

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they don't know who Luke is...my question is...would they even care to see the next movie after that?

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Why does knowing who luke is, matter? At this point the story is about the Empire and Rebel cause. Luke would obviously take care of himself in the next film as the stories hero.

I feel like your disagreeance on this is mostly grounded in the eyes selling the "pure" Star Wars experience. Which I can appreciate. Narratively speaking though, I don't see many downsides to starting with R1. But that's my opinion.

M.C. Swag said:

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Quote:

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A pure uninterested viewer sits there watches an entire move see everyone wiped out and an unknown princess at the end takes off and Vader is like damn foiled....i don't think they care

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You would be content to end the story after that cliffhanger? I disagree. I would definitely want to know what happens next. And I'll be there to coach my kids who Princess Leia is (assuming pop culture fails to educate them on 1 of the most iconic film characters of all time.) So, that's not an issue in my mind.

Quote:

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....nor do they know or care who the hell those 2 droids were that were around a few scenes earlier. And the force means nothing to them..it's almost a joke. What Vader did would just be confusing really.

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Don't see how any of that is a concern? Knowing the force exists, while not understanding it entirely, is enough information to continue the narrative in R1. And again, I'll be there to answer any questions about 2 robots standing there, should the viewer be concerned. (which I don't think they would.)

Quote:

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What Vader did "would put Luke's journey in better perspective" ok....but would they care to watch it...

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I actually cant fathom how anyone would feel dissatisfied and want to stop watching at the conclusion of R1. If they were, then the odds they'd like the rest of Star Wars in any order is pretty slim. I nearly went straight home to pop in ANH after watching R1. Maybe you're right, and that's just because i have prior knowledge. But I honestly believe I would be MORE invested in the rebel cause and what happens with the plans.

Quote:

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they don't know who Luke is...my question is...would they even care to see the next movie after that?

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Why does knowing who luke is, matter? At this point the story is about the Empire and Rebel cause. Luke would obviously take care of himself in the next film as the stories hero.

I feel like your disagreeance on this is mostly grounded in the eyes selling the "pure" Star Wars experience. Which I can appreciate. Narratively speaking though, I don't see many downsides to starting with R1. But that's my opinion.

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Yes it's mostly related to the pure Star Wars experience...you want to get someone to buy into watching the Star Wars story - you don't start with the one that is unlike ALL of the others.

you start with THE iconic story. Then you work in the backstories.

Well lets be honest; ANH has not aged well. As someone who wasn't even alive when the original trilogy concluded, it was a little hard to get kids my age invested in the story. Alot of my friends found it too cheesy to take seriously. The graphics, the action, the acting....it's all VERY 80s.

I think starting off with something newer might get new viewers in the future to buy-in easier than ANH would.

Duncan Idaho said:

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i would do release order.

SW, Holiday Special, ESB, ROTJ, TFA, RO.



If i were going to include any of the prequels, it would have to be the Phantom Edit or nothing at all.

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Where would you place Caravan of Courage?

M.C. Swag said:

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Well lets be honest; ANH has not aged well. As someone who wasn't even alive when the original trilogy concluded, it was a little hard to get kids my age invested in the story. Alot of my friends found it too cheesy to take seriously. The graphics, the action, the actingit's all VERY 80s.

I think starting off with something newer might get new viewers in the future to buy-in easier than ANH would.

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interesting.....i've introduced several kids to Star Wars first...mine included.

In fact my daughter only saw Star Wars last year before seeing TFA. she had no issue with the cheesiness or graphics, etc.

however she is a child of the 80s at heart. she loves everything 80s. just not a sci fi nerd so she had never seen SW but certainly knew who all the iconic characters were.


funny enough...I gave her ZERO context to ROGUE ONE going into yesterday....she had no idea when/where/etc. that it was set.

We just had a discussion and she told me that for 95% of the movie she was rolling her eyes going "another death star...really...thats like 3 or 4 of them now....and another female heroine...and of course her parent or parents are dead...and another bad boy rebel kind of guy to play opposite her...". she said she figured it was another ok we blow up the death star movie. great. and she had no idea if it was before 1/2/3/ or before 4/5/6 or after the all or before TFA...or what....She figured it was another trilogy starting. Until Vader and then she said ok well i know it was before he died but that was all...But she still expected the typical ending. She thought after the beach scene it was going to be another attack on the death star and was like "how long is this freaking movie". Only when they started killing them all and finally killed the two leads basically was she like "oh....crap". And she never tied it into the other movies until Leia showed up.

so even though she had context of 4/5/6 and 1/2/3 she had no clue what this movie was about and really didn't care all that much. I'd say overall she was nonplussed by the whole thing. she was much more moved by SW and TFA even. She did enjoy in the end that it did not end in typical fashion.

Ewok movies are in 3 ABY, so roughly concurrent with ESB.

Liked it better the second viewing. Tarkin and Leia weren't nearly as bad looking in 2D. Then again I also knew what to expect. The three kids all enjoyed it as well.

Still would put TFA ahead of it though.

You might be right. It hasn't even been 48 hours since I walked out of the theater for R1, so I'll want to let it marinate a bit. I still think it should either start the Machete Order, or not be included at all. Either way, I'm just excited to have Star Wars in my life every Christmas for the foreseeable future.

M.C. Swag said:

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You might be right. It hasn't even been 48 hours since I walked out of the theater for R1, so I'll want to let it marinate a bit. I still think it should either start the Machete Order, or not be included at all. Either way, I'm just excited to have Star Wars in my life every Christmas for the foreseeable future.

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no argument there.... I loved it too. It's an intriguing question to debate is all....and I love to argue.

I do hope they keep this Christmas trend! I think i read where Han Solo would be a Summer Release

twilly said:

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BrownCoat said:

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You know the more I think about it....I'm really pissed Porkins didn't make a cameo...

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I'm not sure the CGI computer would have enough horsepower to simulate that mass.

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I thought they had a young porkins-type character in there though....

SpreadsheetAg said:

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Here's a galactic cartography question:

Yavin is the green planet top center of the galaxy map below
Eadu is as of yet unknown (aoyu) but presumably near Yavin for how quickly they flit back and forth there / recieving transmissions quickly, etc. - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Jedha is aoyu - described as "mid rim" by wookieepedia
Scarif is aoyu but presumably near Yavin for how quickly the Rebel fleet arrives there - described as "outer rim" by wookieepedia
Mustafar is clear opposite the galaxy of Yavin at the 6'o'clock position (how did Vader arrive so fast to Scarif?)
Tatooine is at the lower 3'o'clock position, right next to Geonosis
Alderaan is the blue planet near the middle.

Depending on where Scarif is really located - but outer rim regardless - why would the "planet that is farthest from" the center of the Galaxy (near Alderaan) be a way point in Leia's mind form Scarif? Vader knew she was lying, but why would Leia even make a stop at Tatooine from Scarif? (unless Scarif is very close to Tatooine which there is no evidence for yet).

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Regardless of where Scarif is in relationship to Tatooine, I got the impression from Mon Mothma's and Organa's conversation that they were going to ask Obi-Wan for help. Then, Organa essentially said "i trust her [the messenger] with my life"...meaing Leia. It just so happened that Vader caught up to her right when she was arriving at Tatooine.

Could totally be wrong with all this....if Organa said anything about Leia taking it to Alderaan or the Senate, I missed it.

Also, thanks to whoever posted the end Vader scene video. At the time, I was busy following the disc and missed some of the Vader action.

AliasMan02 said:

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Space cartography and travel time is the most hand-wavey thing in the canon, for sure. The main explanation is that while distance is a factor, the quality of the hyperspace lanes matters more. The ones with the best relays (usually Imperial controlled lanes) are faster and safer. This is discussed a little it Tarkin.

Also, not all ships travel through hyperspace at the same speed.

Episode 7 raises the additional question of whether lightspeed is the same thing as hyperspace, but I think this was just a typical JJ disregard for logic when it comes to interstellar travel/distance.

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"She'll make point-5 past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts kid..."

Whatever .5 is - it means Hyperspace does not equal lightspeed. It's faster than light travel.